ok after going through this long thread , i am wondering some of the outcomes
1 does howard sell the conversion in kit form?
2 to the guy with the liberty tranny upgrade how much power are you running through it and how long have you been running it ?
I am running a 20B and i make 500+ i can easily make more but i already blew one tranny (spectacularly if i might add) and i dont like doing the same thing over and over (tranny swaps)
i dont track the car or drag race it (at least not at a track)
just wondering which conversion makes more sense for me , either going for the GTO tranny or the liberty route , both time and budget wise

I broke 3rd gear on the liberty one recently. This was after 5 track events @ 670 rwhp. The stock one used to break in 4-5 laps at full power so it was a huge improvement. I doubt it would ever break on the street with regular tires.

thewird

hhhhm ...this is sounding more and more like something more fit for me , just for comparison , what amount are we talking about more or less for the upgraded liberty box?
does it grind and make whiny noises ?or just like stock ?
just trying to get a comparison here .
the T56 might be beefier and stronger , but i will most likely never use this car other than street so a solution that is simpler (less running around and scavenging parts etc) would be great

It drives like stock. They just upgrade the mainshaft and treat all the internals.

thewird

i`ll try and contact both howard and liberty to see what info can get to make a decision next time the gearbox pops i want to be ready

Digging this sucker up....

Anyone know what the damage from these guys http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com/prod...0-gearbox.html . They even have a bell housing for RX7 http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com/prod...ellhouses.html


Also only 85lb

i note a used DG500 was for sale at $15,000 plus shipping.

sign me up.

not.

howard

Bringing this back. I will update this thread near the summer as I'm currently fitting a CTS-V version of the t56 for my NA 20b thats moved back 5-1/2". I got a tinny bit of massaging to the tranny tunnel to do but so far it appears it's gonna fit.

Gents Ive had a good read and some really good info in this thread.

But some quick questions. Did anyone try the T56 Magnum with an adaptered shifter?
Project V8 RX-7: Part 8 - The Shifter
Im guessing the V8 guys would have a similar gearbox location and length.

And do any of the adapter plates work for a FC turbo gearbox?

for the last 4 years i have used a QuarterMaster cerametallic double disc. it has always been borderline as to offering a pleasant driving experience as in better stay away from stop and go traffic.

this year it started slipping around 550 in April. i had it rebuilt and was back on the dyno in October only to have more slippage.

My tuner shop, Beyond Redline in Green Bay, Wi happened to have just finished a beautiful 3 rotor and had collaborated w Mcloed for the clutch. the direction from the owner was he wanted his wife to be able to drive it...

i was mumbling to myself about my slipping clutch and having to miss the Texas Mile (again) when Luke suggested i hop in the 3 rotor and take it for a run around the block to evaluate the clutch.

it took me four feet to make a decision.

almost OE clutch pedal pressure, ability to feather take-up.

and it holds 800 foot pounds! (according to Mcloed)

while i am in the process of acquiring (4-6 weeks) the clutch so i haven't actually had it in my car i have experienced it in the other FD and therefore suggest it for your consideration.

the package from Mcloed consists of a custom flywheel that bolts to the rear crank counterweight, and the RST clutch package.

pressure plate is 1900 pounds spring pressure

double disc/organic sprung linings 9 11/16 diameter

my guess is they would build it w any spline option you want on the discs.

i am totally impressed w the feel of the clutch and can't wait to get it in my car.

Howard

It's winter time and I want a good transmission upgrade...someone tell me what to buy. I'm leaning towards Liberty but I feel like there should be some SOLID options at this point.

The T-56 Magnum is REALLY hard to beat. Based on the info in this thread I'd be inclined to try the TR6060 behind the rotary. Better shifter location and better syncros.

Howard, The RST is a SUPER popular twin disk in the LS world. Honda style PP with great tq capability. Drag racers go to the RXT though.

i really want to know more about the new tr-3160 the one in the new gt350/350r it also comes in the new camaro and ats-v but the one in the mustang was modded for the new high revving 5.2 flat plane crank "voodoo" engine car revs to 8250rpm also comes with a 5th gear 1:1 has has almost the same gearing as a getrag v160 out of a supra says the torque rating is at about 450lbs but we all have seen regular tremecs go way above that

In order to run the T56 Magnum, if I'm remembering correctly, I'd need the auto rear place? Among other things.

Sequential shifting ain't for paupers. Neither is new technology.

To do it right you need the Auto rear plate. To make this work with the manual rear plate you can either shave the manual rear plate or shave the T56 Magnum casting to make it work. Both are not optimal.

Going to the T56 Magnum is a good amount of money. If you try to do it on the cheap and skimp it is still going to be a pretty penny. If you are just starting to do the research on this it is more then you think. I had the funds saved up but for me it made since to do it right and wait till a rebuild is needed and use the auto rear plate. Since I cannot kill this motor, and I have tried, I have a low mileage JDM series 8 trans at liberty now getting everything possible done. Super cheap in comparison and will be under 2K for the whole thing. 3rd gear is a weak point and there is nothing that can be done about it other then lifting while shifting into 3rd. I am hoping a Tilton flow control valve will help but I will see. If you are under 500WTQ I am pretty sure you would have no problems at all with the fortified Liberty gears trans.

After helping my dad put a t56 in his 67 camaro i learned a few things. First is that you dont have to shave 1/2 off the bellhousing like howard did. You can buy t56 input shafts in several lengths and they are easy to swap out. Thats what we did with my dads. It has an adapter plate to use his SBC scatter shield. Also you dont have to use an auto rear plate, bell housing, or have an expensive clutch setup made for it. Simply use a turboII bell housing and pressure plate.

you ever look into the cd009 transmission from a nissan 350/370z? supposed to be able to hold over 1000whp, and can be had much cheaper than a t56 brand new. i believe Theorie is working with somebody on releasing a kit very soon.

Gear ratios are pretty well suited to the rotary too.

yea i seen this like it would be really good just dont know how it will fit in the tunnel

I would be very curious to see this confirmed.

how does this work to mate the T56 up to the back of a rotary? the turboII bell housing is similar to the 5-spd FD bellhousing, it is also the front of the trans case. so you have a taller, more narrow bolt pattern that bolts from the inside the housing and has only holes for the input shaft...

the T56 bell housing bolts from the outside w/ threads in the bellhousing to hold it to the transmission and the patter itself is more circular...

am i missing something? :scratch:

You have to have an adapter plate regardless. But with the turbo II bell housing its a push style clutch with the slave cylinder on top of the bell housing eliminating the need for a custom clutch/buttoned flexplate setup.

Gotcha... thanks for the clarification

You sure your not specifying fiitment of the 5speed version? Because if this is a t56 6speed, there's no way around not cutting into the tranny body to fit the rear facing starter with the manuel tranny belhousing.

You have to grind a tiny bit ;-)

Again are you referring to a 5 speed or 6 speed? I've actually done some pre-fitting of a 6 speed t-56 out of a 2003-2004 Cadillac CTS-V (M12 version) on my fd manuel bell housing. There's alot more than a tiny bit you have to remove to clear the starter. The 5 speed box have a slim body like the turbo II and fd tranny. The 6 speed has a much wider body. I'm not trying to give you a hard time but, you have to understand that in these technicall DIY threads, you need to be clear with your explanations so others following don't get the wrong idea. :)

Edit: Here's one of my pics with the auto belhousing. There's a lot of bulk that needs to be removed just behind that bellhousing. I do have pics of the modded fd manuel bellhousing but, there on my other phone (that I broke unfortunately a month ago). :(

https://www.rx7club.com/attachments/...129_170205.jpg

Yeah - it is a lot a bit not a little bit. I definitely have have done the research and everyone that has actually done it says the same thing. Depending where you are at in the Torque department the normal LS1 T56 is not a major upgrade from a FD trans unfortunately, especially used. Will start to fail at 450 torque and I am at 550WTQ and am going to have more. Doing the swap to a magnum a nice clutch and properly fabricated part to replace the PPF is not cheap at all.

Yea I think that's where I settled last time, I haven't got around to calling Liberty but that's on my winter list. :icon_tup: I'd like to throw an auto rear plate on there, but like you said, that's not happening unless the motor blows.

That would be amazing, maybe he could chime in on that

There is a thread in the v8 section about that trans if you want to take a look.

In terms of stock T56 trannys, it all depends on the which T56 your trying to use. The M12 version I have internally is the same as the t56 found in a 2003-2004 Pontiac GTO. They have tripple cone syncros! IronMdx here on the forum has the Pontiac version behind his 20b. His engine made well over 700+ rwhp and we'll above 500lbs. Reliability wise, he claims it's been perfect. I bought the CTS-V version because I can position the shifter where I want it since my 20b is moved back. I don't forsee any problems once I boost mine.

Why is this still an issue.

I'm using a t56 with a manual bell housing in my fd. Stock starter location, and yes you have to shave some of the tranny area. but it works, and works well.

I'm putting a 20b in now and it will go on that motor as well. And be able to push the motor back further.

It's an issue because no one has seen a thread showing the process.
Curious minds will always wonder. ;)

Never mind!
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...arter-1059663/

The mods look very familiar to what I did. I however, I may end up using the fc bellhousing because I don't want to cut anymore metal to fit the fd rear facing slave cylinder.

FD transmission solution for 500+ hp
 

I just got a email from www.dellowconversions.com.au they offer some really nice bellhousing conversions for muscle cars etc. but they have always done a 13b to Toyota and few others. well they are now doing one for 13b to the tko600. I eventually want to run the TKO600 modified from liberty.

green brother's ran a faceplated tko500 behind there 800+hp 323 wagon

so I have just ordered a liberty faceplated TKO600.i will be using the Green Brother's steel bell housing and a hydraulic release bearing and there extended shifter to retain interior centre console. it will be going into a fc3s with a 13bre and a 9180 shooting for 500-600hp. will be good fun

For those thinking about going with a T56 or t56 Magnum (which shares no internal components with the pre '08 style trans) here are some thoughts.

The F-body style '93-02 T56 was designed in 1991 and is therefore a 25 year old product. The LT1 and LS1 style box share the same internals. The only difference is the input shaft (length), front bearing plate, and bellhousing. They shift like a dump truck; however can hold big power. Even rebuild they still don't shift silky smooth. Used non rebuilt T56's with bellhousings sell for around $1000-1300 if you are lucky enough to find one. I would suggest buying a rebuilt one since these all need refreshening given the age. I recently sold a rebuilt one with about 10K miles for $1700... and it sold instantly. The bellhousing since you guys won't use it can easily sell for $175-200.
* also note that parts for this transmission go in/out of production.... meaning at times it can be 6 months-1 year when a part is on back order. Many replacement parts are made in Taiwan now as a result.

The T56 Magnum is a clean slate design rated at 700ft/lbs in a 4500lb car launching on slicks without failure. It is not only stout, but it does shift very very smoothly. It has been compared to an S2000 transmission by a few of my customers... if you pair it with a McLeod twin disc (RST for road race under 800hp and RXT for drag racing....serious abuse) they have extremely light pedal pressure and non grabby engagement. If you get the TUET11009 version it has great gearing/spacing from 1-4 gear (2.66 1st) paired with a .80 5th and .63 6th making this effectively a close ratio 5 speed with a good overdrive.

I road race my LS7 car (600hp+) and while I rarely use 5th on the track.... when I do... I certainly notice it is better than the .75 gear offered in the other version.

I have another car making about 1400hp (flywheel.... 88mm turbo 6.2 LS) and I'm running a 100% stock T56 Magnum. Total street car driven anywhere and has run 9.35@163mph launching with zero boost driven to/from the track.... not even power shifting. This spring I will test with launching on some boost and hope to run an 8 second pass. I have more power left on the table using boost by gear. It has gone 197 mph in the 1/2 mile making it the fastest 2wd front engine car on the West Coast routinetly shifted at 7800rpm.... even in 4th going to 5th! The only faster 2wd car is a Porsche with a $35K sequential gear box.

For those of you that find a '10+ Camaro TR6060 please be advised that the gearing in them is not great, the bellhousing is not removable as it is incorporated into the front bearing plate, the shifter is harder to modify to make work, the driveshaft needs to be built as a CV style front yoke which is much more expensive. My recommendation is to stay away from these.

That being said... for those of you with the budget... the T56 Magnum is a killer piece and easily available and ready to ship. The shifter that comes with it is easily modified to move further back. If you prefer to pay me to do this I charge $150. Sikky and McLeod also make shifters to set it further back $500/$300. IMO the factory shifter is just as good as both of these offerings. If you need to truly watch your finances... look for a used rebuilt one...
Please email me for pricing and more info on the T56 Magnum. I used to offer rebuilt T56's; however the core supply has really dried up and I no longer do this. I can be reached at my username at hotmail dot com.

The picture from top to bottom: TR6060 '10+ Camaro trans, T56 Magnum, standard T56

Thanks for the info:icon_tup: I've started this process over the last week or so and I've been getting some parts together. I will probably go with the Sikky shifter as I've been told it'll line it up perfect in the FD, I will look into the other options you have provided.

As for the transmission I'll be going with the TUET 11012 version (2.97 - 1st gear)...I don't think the ol rotary can pull a 2.66 out of the hole quite as well as the v8 does:(

Running the T56 Magnum/McLeod twin disk setup on my ls1 FD. :nod:

I'm using a t56 from a gto better internals then the f body

Anyway this is my build. This is the quicktime bell housing with the rear mounted starter - a bit of grinding (and a tweak in the bell housing) but getting there.

Box is a aussie holden GTS TR-6060




https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...e98cfca8af.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...8ab1d511f2.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...c06e3576aa.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...2b0b907ed7.jpg

How much grinding on the tranny? It seems like a lot needs to be gone depth wise from the pics.. How does that TR6060 compare to other T56s in size, width and material needing grinding off to fit well, right by where it needs grinding behind the starter..?

ohhh, nice jelly fish

Everyone needs some jelly fish on there car :) makes it go faster

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...e5a82a86ff.jpg


As for grinding, I probably over did it a bit, but wasn't as bad as you think.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...e5a82a86ff.jpg

I had to do a little bit of grinding in the bell housing as well.

the TR6060 is the T56 Magnum in the US. Im still a bit away from trying to fit it (need to borrow a transmission jack - I do all my work solo) but will keep you posted.

I still need to change:
The clutch plates
shifter location is about 2.5cm out from previous calc's
new drive shaft.

Havoc, please share with us the parts that you are using to make this happen. Such as the flywheel, clutch kit, slave cylinder, clutch fork, throw out bearing, etc. Thanks

will do mate - Ill likely do in another thread as don't want to mix information.

The original conversion by Howard was back in 2010 so products have changed quite a bit.

If I ever do another LS swap I will run the T-56 Magnum. The standard T-56 was my least favorite thing about my last LS3 swapped FD. I even ran the Twin Disc RXT and the stock LS7 clutch, replaced clutch hydraulics, bled it to death. It still shifted like garbage. A sports car needs a proper matching trans or it ruins the experience IMO.
The standard T-56 has no business in these cars. It's a complete compromise and don't let anyone tell you any different.

Wel I'll guess I'll find out with mine. I'll be running the CTS-V tranny with the crazy linkage. I've already built a custom shifter linkage to move it forward. I'm also doing away with all the rubber isolation so it has a more direct fell. Plus I added more pressure to shifter switching mechanism to give it more of a notchy feel. Lastly I'm using a turbo 2 bellhousing so this will eliminate the inner slave cylinder and hydraulic oil from over heating. I think when it's all said and done, it should work well.

without reading this entire thread, anyone put a t56 behind a 13bt in a Fc? I'm building a pretty healthy engine right now, and don't want to break transmissions every 1000 miles if I can avoid it.

...i didn't read every page, so sorry if i missed that, but is theres a list with prices which transmission will work for that high horsepower?

At what hp number is it critical to use the oem transmission? Some time ago i read that it will take around 550-600 hp, is that true?

I think the T56 might be the most common replacement, which bell housing adapters are available and which one is the best?

I think the Supra Getrag transmission is out (although i found some bell housing adapters and bell housings) because of the ridiculous prices...

But what about the R154 Toyota transmission? I heard it will take plenty of power (at least 700 hp), is available for fair prices and there are also adapters available, like the plazmaman (around 600 usd).

How does the T56 shift compared to the OEM transmission?

What is the reliable torque limit of the stock 5 speed?

In the UK, a few of the RX-7 drag cars that run 9s and 10s use the RX-8 6 speed because it is supposed to be stronger than the FD 5 speed. I assume a FD running 9s is making between 550-650 hp depending on the weight of the car and the rest of the setup since the FD itself is already so light. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

The cars that run 8s over here are usually switched to a Lenco or similar drag racing transmission.