FD Road Racers ONLY: Your Upgrades and Your Rationale
12-01-02, 01:19 PM
#27
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
redrotorR1, do you think the datalogit software would be worth the extra cost to hook up to a laptop?
The Japan specs don't have pill in the wastegate. It's supposed to be controlled via the solenoids??
I'm told the A'pex PFC HAS boost control built in?
The Japan specs don't have pill in the wastegate. It's supposed to be controlled via the solenoids??
I'm told the A'pex PFC HAS boost control built in?
12-02-02, 02:25 AM
#28
Full Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Never Never Land, Rotary Fun.
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey -
just thought i'd throw in my .02 cents on the subject -
I'm a recent member of the single turbo club, as I have recently (or not so recently, I suppose..) put in my T04R into my FD.
My car is completely dedicated to road racing, I don't do any autocrosses or drag racing, so I just thought I'd preface my comments with where I'm coming from and what my experiences are.
I've raced at Pocono and Lime Rock, although not recently due to my car being down for about 4 months, and currently having a suspension issue.
With regard to your power inquiry though, I've come to notice that more and more people are very concerned with the way the power delivery comes from a Single vs a set of Twins. I truly believe that you can control it better if you possess the right controls, i.e. being able to control boost vs throttle % + speed + rpm. Therefore having the ability, to tune your car for every scenario, whether you're in and out of deep straights or coming through endless esses..
I bought an HKS EVC Pro just so I could do that, its programmable to this sort of granular functionality, although it does cost quite alot of money..
ATM, I've got it so that its alot easier for me to mash the throttle when coming in and out of turns, just in case I'm a lil sloppy with the throttle that day, I don't lose control and kill myself, or otherwise. Its possiblities are as such:
100% throttle, 50kph, 1.2 bar
75% throttle, 50kph, 1 bar
50% throttle, 50kph, .8 bar
etc..
so you can see, its alot easier to set up so that you have more control over how much power really comes based on throttle % or otherwise... you can add rpm to that as well, like I said.
I think also though that it depends on the sort of tracks you race on. If you're primarily on a track where there are primarily power straights and deep banked turns, then obviously a large power adder will be helpful, as you can always utilize its power band by staying high in the rpm band, otherwise if you are racing primarily on a track where there is little space to open, then you should look into something that can give you the accelerational force to always have that power on tap.
Again, there are definately many options to go, as one I suppose could also use traction control and what not to be able to add useable power, etc. So many options these days.
JIC you're curious about my set-up
T04R (and the particulars that go along with it, FMIC, etc.)
RD Tanabe Sustec Pros (I'll be swapping to JRZ or Penske 3-ways in the spring)
Custom Sway bars + Mounts
AP Racing brakes (with double master cylinders coming soon)
Upgraded Dual Oil Coolers
Aquamist kit (awaiting delivery)
hth-
m
just thought i'd throw in my .02 cents on the subject -
I'm a recent member of the single turbo club, as I have recently (or not so recently, I suppose..) put in my T04R into my FD.
My car is completely dedicated to road racing, I don't do any autocrosses or drag racing, so I just thought I'd preface my comments with where I'm coming from and what my experiences are.
I've raced at Pocono and Lime Rock, although not recently due to my car being down for about 4 months, and currently having a suspension issue.
With regard to your power inquiry though, I've come to notice that more and more people are very concerned with the way the power delivery comes from a Single vs a set of Twins. I truly believe that you can control it better if you possess the right controls, i.e. being able to control boost vs throttle % + speed + rpm. Therefore having the ability, to tune your car for every scenario, whether you're in and out of deep straights or coming through endless esses..
I bought an HKS EVC Pro just so I could do that, its programmable to this sort of granular functionality, although it does cost quite alot of money..
ATM, I've got it so that its alot easier for me to mash the throttle when coming in and out of turns, just in case I'm a lil sloppy with the throttle that day, I don't lose control and kill myself, or otherwise. Its possiblities are as such:
100% throttle, 50kph, 1.2 bar
75% throttle, 50kph, 1 bar
50% throttle, 50kph, .8 bar
etc..
so you can see, its alot easier to set up so that you have more control over how much power really comes based on throttle % or otherwise... you can add rpm to that as well, like I said.
I think also though that it depends on the sort of tracks you race on. If you're primarily on a track where there are primarily power straights and deep banked turns, then obviously a large power adder will be helpful, as you can always utilize its power band by staying high in the rpm band, otherwise if you are racing primarily on a track where there is little space to open, then you should look into something that can give you the accelerational force to always have that power on tap.
Again, there are definately many options to go, as one I suppose could also use traction control and what not to be able to add useable power, etc. So many options these days.
JIC you're curious about my set-up
T04R (and the particulars that go along with it, FMIC, etc.)
RD Tanabe Sustec Pros (I'll be swapping to JRZ or Penske 3-ways in the spring)
Custom Sway bars + Mounts
AP Racing brakes (with double master cylinders coming soon)
Upgraded Dual Oil Coolers
Aquamist kit (awaiting delivery)
hth-
m
12-02-02, 02:32 AM
#29
LS6 Convert
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you already have a laptop, I think it is. I don't have a laptop and I can spend $1000 on better things ... like tires. 
I bought the SR Motorsports unit, so it came pre-tuned for my setup ... I know, not the smartest thing to do, but once I get set on a SMIC intercooler, I'll be at my shop for some dyno testing and wideband tuning.
The '99 spec turbos don't need the pills. The nipples are designed to control the actuator line pressure, so you shouldn't need to worry about the restrictor pills.
Yes, the PFC does control boost ... sorta. You can control peak boost and solenoid duty cycle which can effectively work as a boost controller, but there have been many complaints about the PFC not controlling past the set peak boost. That unfortunately results in a fuel cut. I think this may somewhat be related to the lack of a feedback loop, so weather changes and such are not accounted for. Boost controllers like the Blitz DSBC, SBC-iD, and the HKS AVC-R supposedly do a much better job of this. This will be especially important for you b/c of the hi-flo cat that you are going to be putting in.
I bought the SR Motorsports unit, so it came pre-tuned for my setup ... I know, not the smartest thing to do, but once I get set on a SMIC intercooler, I'll be at my shop for some dyno testing and wideband tuning.The '99 spec turbos don't need the pills. The nipples are designed to control the actuator line pressure, so you shouldn't need to worry about the restrictor pills.
Yes, the PFC does control boost ... sorta. You can control peak boost and solenoid duty cycle which can effectively work as a boost controller, but there have been many complaints about the PFC not controlling past the set peak boost. That unfortunately results in a fuel cut. I think this may somewhat be related to the lack of a feedback loop, so weather changes and such are not accounted for. Boost controllers like the Blitz DSBC, SBC-iD, and the HKS AVC-R supposedly do a much better job of this. This will be especially important for you b/c of the hi-flo cat that you are going to be putting in.
12-02-02, 04:47 AM
#30
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
WorkS2R, Wow very interesting! I wasn't aware there were electronics available to control the power rush of single turbos!
redrotorR1, what's the extra cost of the datalogit software? Can the same functions be accomplished through the PFC commander? FWIW, I've been running a RB intake duct/K&N-stock airbox/dp/high-flow cat/catback for 5 years with no issues using a 10.5 psi boost control pill in the wastegate precontrol of the stock twins. I was hoping that adding the HMIC/CAI wouldn't do much to my current setup (using my 102,250-mile motor and turbos), but perhaps I might consider backing the boost pill down to 10 psi? Or do you think I need to get the A'pex PFC with the old motor and turbos; and not until the ported motor and J-spec twins go in?
redrotorR1, what's the extra cost of the datalogit software? Can the same functions be accomplished through the PFC commander? FWIW, I've been running a RB intake duct/K&N-stock airbox/dp/high-flow cat/catback for 5 years with no issues using a 10.5 psi boost control pill in the wastegate precontrol of the stock twins. I was hoping that adding the HMIC/CAI wouldn't do much to my current setup (using my 102,250-mile motor and turbos), but perhaps I might consider backing the boost pill down to 10 psi? Or do you think I need to get the A'pex PFC with the old motor and turbos; and not until the ported motor and J-spec twins go in?
Last edited by SleepR1; 12-02-02 at 04:49 AM.
12-02-02, 10:42 AM
#31
LS6 Convert
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The FC-Datalogit software package usually goes for about $300. Comes with the cable link and CD for your computer. And like I said, you will have to provide the laptop ... or whatever you decide to link the ECU to.
As far as controlling boost based on throttle position, I don't think that you can exactly specify that kind of detailed performance with the PFC. You can adjust timing and fuel maps to gain max power in any/all rpm ranges. Then again, I'm still in the learning stages with the PFC, so perhaps I'm not a good source for that info.
I suppose you could get away with the boost control pill; but I'll warn you that the '99 turbos spool faster and flow more. My inital boost pattern with the '99 spec turbos was 12-10-12-15
... I really believe that those nipples were designed to run 12 psi. I'd wager that you will see spikes even with the 10.5 psi pill ... and especially now, when it's cold. Add in your streetport and forget about it ... no way the stock ECU will be able to suffice. My advice would be to play it safe (logically ... with all the money you're about to spend); get some sort of reprogrammed or programmable ECU and spend some time in the ECU forums. Like me ...
As far as controlling boost based on throttle position, I don't think that you can exactly specify that kind of detailed performance with the PFC. You can adjust timing and fuel maps to gain max power in any/all rpm ranges. Then again, I'm still in the learning stages with the PFC, so perhaps I'm not a good source for that info.
I suppose you could get away with the boost control pill; but I'll warn you that the '99 turbos spool faster and flow more. My inital boost pattern with the '99 spec turbos was 12-10-12-15
... I really believe that those nipples were designed to run 12 psi. I'd wager that you will see spikes even with the 10.5 psi pill ... and especially now, when it's cold. Add in your streetport and forget about it ... no way the stock ECU will be able to suffice. My advice would be to play it safe (logically ... with all the money you're about to spend); get some sort of reprogrammed or programmable ECU and spend some time in the ECU forums. Like me ...
12-02-02, 11:15 AM
#32
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
redrotorR1,
What kind of setup do you have that allows 15 psi spikes from the J-spec twins? What boost pressure did you set your A'pex PFC to limit boost at?
Perhaps I should just use my current setup with the new ported motor and J-spec twins--RB intake duct/K&N drop-in stock air box/stock IC/dp/high flow cat/RB dual tip catback with 10 psi limit boost?????
Will the A'pex still come with a commander if you opt for the datalog version???
What kind of setup do you have that allows 15 psi spikes from the J-spec twins? What boost pressure did you set your A'pex PFC to limit boost at?
Perhaps I should just use my current setup with the new ported motor and J-spec twins--RB intake duct/K&N drop-in stock air box/stock IC/dp/high flow cat/RB dual tip catback with 10 psi limit boost?????
Will the A'pex still come with a commander if you opt for the datalog version???
12-02-02, 01:50 PM
#33
LS6 Convert
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I installed them, the RS/RZ turbos didn't really spike, but they did creep up to 15psi with the secondary on. It was slightly compounded by the colder weather. But, since they flow enough to overwhelm the wastegate, I hastily set upon getting an ECU! After I got the PFC, I set the peak boost signal to 1.00 bar; roughly 14.5 psi. The maps are supposedly programmed rich (SR Motorsports); but I won't REALLY push the car until I get her dyno tuned with the wideband. In limited auto-x events and brief highway bursts, the butt-dyno already confirms the increased acceleration. The transition is notably smoother, but my local rotary guru says he can make it almost indistinguishable. I have another DE coming up so I'm already in a rush to get time in with my local shop. I can't wait to get out to the next PCA event with the new and improved rocket.
For your case, I think you're already on the right track with the CAI and IC upgrades. But, limiting the peak boost would be really holding back the potential of the ported motor with the J-spec twins. IMO, it's worth the expense for the programmable ECU, at this point. Plus, there's no sense in pushing the limit with a newly rebuilt engine.
The datalogit is a separate package ... optional. You might be able to finagle a deal by buying all three parts: PFC, Commander, & FC-Datalogit software.
For your case, I think you're already on the right track with the CAI and IC upgrades. But, limiting the peak boost would be really holding back the potential of the ported motor with the J-spec twins. IMO, it's worth the expense for the programmable ECU, at this point. Plus, there's no sense in pushing the limit with a newly rebuilt engine.
The datalogit is a separate package ... optional. You might be able to finagle a deal by buying all three parts: PFC, Commander, & FC-Datalogit software.
12-02-02, 03:18 PM
#34
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
The A'pex PFC will be a definite purchase...just have to figure out if I need a stand-alone boost controller to use with the A'pex PFC? Anyone have any suggestions?? Do I really need a stand-alone boost controller?
12-02-02, 03:19 PM
#35
sleepr1,
I use the PFC and Datalogit and am in the process of installing a wideband O2 to complete the "tuning" loop. The reason: I want to be able to tune my own car. The Datalogit software is truely impressive in it's capabilities when it comes to tweaking engine parameters, however, it is intimidating. Unless you plan on tuning your own car I woudln't think it necessary. From what you have told me you'd like to set up the car have it tuned and leave it alone. Once tuned woudl there really be a need for the Datalogit? In any case, at a guess, I'd say 50% of the critical parameters are accessible through the Commander. It's when changes to the fuel system, for example, or when going single turbo that the Datalogit comes into it's own. That and of course you have a penchant for pouring over logged data from your track days (which I do
). Don;t get me wrong the datalogit is a wonderful tool but if youa re on a budget and like to drive vs fiddle with your car then I'd put the Datalogit on the second tier of things to buy 
Regards,
Crispy
PS don't knock the single turbo as an option for road racing [sic]. Note the more power you make the steeper the power curve will be regardless of the setup. It has to be steeper in order to get there given the same rpm range. Just an observation.
I use the PFC and Datalogit and am in the process of installing a wideband O2 to complete the "tuning" loop. The reason: I want to be able to tune my own car. The Datalogit software is truely impressive in it's capabilities when it comes to tweaking engine parameters, however, it is intimidating. Unless you plan on tuning your own car I woudln't think it necessary. From what you have told me you'd like to set up the car have it tuned and leave it alone. Once tuned woudl there really be a need for the Datalogit? In any case, at a guess, I'd say 50% of the critical parameters are accessible through the Commander. It's when changes to the fuel system, for example, or when going single turbo that the Datalogit comes into it's own. That and of course you have a penchant for pouring over logged data from your track days (which I do
). Don;t get me wrong the datalogit is a wonderful tool but if youa re on a budget and like to drive vs fiddle with your car then I'd put the Datalogit on the second tier of things to buy Regards,
Crispy
PS don't knock the single turbo as an option for road racing [sic]. Note the more power you make the steeper the power curve will be regardless of the setup. It has to be steeper in order to get there given the same rpm range. Just an observation.
12-02-02, 03:23 PM
#37
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bimingham, AL
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: FD Road Racers ONLY: Your Upgrades and Your Rationale
Originally posted by WVRx7
While I respect your hobby and admire your level of experience (more track days than me), I heartily object to your definition of "Road Racers".
A competition license isn't easy to come by. It takes a lot of skill, time and money to obtain one. I believe that calling what we do on racetracks "racing" is an insult to those that actually do it.
If one is racing their car, great. I sure wish I was, but track days, whether it is an "open" day or an "instruction" day simply cannot be defined on any level as racing.
Using this lingo perpetuates the myths about the hobby and while it may make some people feel more manly about their exploits, in actuality it only serves to make it more difficult to obtain new tracks and dates (due to liabililty fears) and it makes true racers harbor disdain for those of us that do not, or cannot race. (see many comments on the highly regarded nsxfiles.com site)
I liken it to calling any shooter a marksman.
I have over 250 Solo 2 events(Autocross), 5 Solo 1 events, more than 30 track days on multiple tracks, some instructing time but I would never refer to what I do as "Road Racing"
I have the skills, motivation and funds, just not the time or the car. When I choose to "Road Race" I will use that moniker.
Something to ponder.
While I respect your hobby and admire your level of experience (more track days than me), I heartily object to your definition of "Road Racers".
A competition license isn't easy to come by. It takes a lot of skill, time and money to obtain one. I believe that calling what we do on racetracks "racing" is an insult to those that actually do it.
If one is racing their car, great. I sure wish I was, but track days, whether it is an "open" day or an "instruction" day simply cannot be defined on any level as racing.
Using this lingo perpetuates the myths about the hobby and while it may make some people feel more manly about their exploits, in actuality it only serves to make it more difficult to obtain new tracks and dates (due to liabililty fears) and it makes true racers harbor disdain for those of us that do not, or cannot race. (see many comments on the highly regarded nsxfiles.com site)
I liken it to calling any shooter a marksman.
I have over 250 Solo 2 events(Autocross), 5 Solo 1 events, more than 30 track days on multiple tracks, some instructing time but I would never refer to what I do as "Road Racing"
I have the skills, motivation and funds, just not the time or the car. When I choose to "Road Race" I will use that moniker.
Something to ponder.
Interesting thoughts on what costitutes a road racer. Let me give you my spin on it. The definition of a race is......
a : to enter in a race b : to drive or ride at high speed c : to transport or propel at maximum speed
Anyone that is doing that would be known as a racer, I'd use the "B" definition. The type of pavement you do this on is what dictates what type of racing your doing, drag, road, ralley, ect
The comparison of a shooter versus a marksman to me means that any "racer" is a shooter and a professional or very talented racer would be a marksman.
Remember a marksman is just a shooter thats beter than the rest. Just like a avid road racer or a professional road racer is better than everyone else that road races. It doesnt mean that the other people are not road racers.
I guess I just dont understand where your coming from.
STEPHEN
12-02-02, 03:50 PM
#38
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
Crispy,
Well that cinches it...I'll stay with the A'pex PFC, dispense with the datalogit (I'm not into tuning, really), and use the A'pex's boost control function to limit boost. 10.5 psi is all I want...really!
FWIW, I'm not knocking the single turbo road racers. I'm just afraid of driving a car with a big rush of power within a span of 2000 rpm...basically I'm a "wuss" (hee hee)
Well that cinches it...I'll stay with the A'pex PFC, dispense with the datalogit (I'm not into tuning, really), and use the A'pex's boost control function to limit boost. 10.5 psi is all I want...really!
FWIW, I'm not knocking the single turbo road racers. I'm just afraid of driving a car with a big rush of power within a span of 2000 rpm...basically I'm a "wuss" (hee hee)
12-02-02, 04:26 PM
#39
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bimingham, AL
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To answer some of the questions here, there PFC would be a good choice as long as you get a Datalogit. Now that I've had a Datalogit and a wideband I cant imagine it being safe any other way. That is the only way to do it.
Also, to be quite honest I dont think the Jspec twins flow THAT much more air than the stockers, they should spool a little faster but thats about it. The 99+ really wasnt ever rated with more power than the 93-95 if you take into consideration than the 99's with 280 dont have a precat, and they ran a little more boost. It they run the same boost level with all the same emmissions junk they would be very close to the 255 that ours came with.
I've also never had a prob with the PFC controlling boost and I've ran everything from 10psi - 17psi with the stock twins and PFC. Even if you did have a hard time controlling boost you could use manual controllers which work very well and cost all of $15.
As for parts that work good together me and a friend made a intake that is basically just two hard pipes made with alum and some K&N filters, I've removed the airpump and vented the bov's long ago so a intake was easy to make. It has a heat shield similar to the Pettit shield.
I'm running a IC thats very similar to the M2 med (but a little bigger) that I've done custom. It lays more at a angle thats similar to the angle of the radiator. I did that so it would be so close to the engine.
When I desinged my IC I thought about a hz mounted similar to the Ray's but it just seems to me that without a vented hood and given the fact that heat rises it would heat soak like crazy. I'm not sure exactly what the design your looking at is so it might not be faced with those issues.
Anyway, for the boost level your running (which btw, why are you going to run such low boost?) a good smic like the M2 with a fan on the back along with a good intake like the Pettit or the M2 (I hear the M2's box heat soaks though) and a full exhaust with a PFC would be great. With a strong engine and new turbos it should put you around 330-340 at the wheels with 12-13psi of boost.
STEPHEN
Also, to be quite honest I dont think the Jspec twins flow THAT much more air than the stockers, they should spool a little faster but thats about it. The 99+ really wasnt ever rated with more power than the 93-95 if you take into consideration than the 99's with 280 dont have a precat, and they ran a little more boost. It they run the same boost level with all the same emmissions junk they would be very close to the 255 that ours came with.
I've also never had a prob with the PFC controlling boost and I've ran everything from 10psi - 17psi with the stock twins and PFC. Even if you did have a hard time controlling boost you could use manual controllers which work very well and cost all of $15.
As for parts that work good together me and a friend made a intake that is basically just two hard pipes made with alum and some K&N filters, I've removed the airpump and vented the bov's long ago so a intake was easy to make. It has a heat shield similar to the Pettit shield.
I'm running a IC thats very similar to the M2 med (but a little bigger) that I've done custom. It lays more at a angle thats similar to the angle of the radiator. I did that so it would be so close to the engine.
When I desinged my IC I thought about a hz mounted similar to the Ray's but it just seems to me that without a vented hood and given the fact that heat rises it would heat soak like crazy. I'm not sure exactly what the design your looking at is so it might not be faced with those issues.
Anyway, for the boost level your running (which btw, why are you going to run such low boost?) a good smic like the M2 with a fan on the back along with a good intake like the Pettit or the M2 (I hear the M2's box heat soaks though) and a full exhaust with a PFC would be great. With a strong engine and new turbos it should put you around 330-340 at the wheels with 12-13psi of boost.
STEPHEN
12-02-02, 04:30 PM
#40
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bimingham, AL
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whoops, I didnt see your last post about not wanting a Datalogit. If your REALLY only going to run 10-11psi of boost I guess you'll probably be ok with the stock PFC map but I would REALLY recomend the Datalogit. As a matter of fact I think its SOOOO valuable that I'd rather have it than the comander. For no other reason that jsut that you can control the cooling fans, mine come on at 85C and my temps never get over about 90-91C.
With all the mods you want to do I'd recomend a datalogit. You might be ok with the stock map and maybe you can just start with it and dyno your car. If you find it needs tuning then get a Datalogit.
Also, you mentioned the rush of power, the seq twins jump about 100rwhp at trans in the span of about 400rpms.
STEPHEN
With all the mods you want to do I'd recomend a datalogit. You might be ok with the stock map and maybe you can just start with it and dyno your car. If you find it needs tuning then get a Datalogit.
Also, you mentioned the rush of power, the seq twins jump about 100rwhp at trans in the span of about 400rpms.
STEPHEN
Last edited by SPOautos; 12-02-02 at 04:35 PM.
12-02-02, 05:34 PM
#41
WorkS2R, I like the throttle-based boost control you described. I might have to look into getting that boost controller.
Manny, look at the turbo transition for cars with sequential turbos and all the bolt ons. My car had like a 100 RWHP jump from 5000-5500 RPM. I am sure some of that was some boost spiking, but still, you are going to have a big, abrupt jump in power from the exhaust opening up when the second turbo comes online. I always found that amusing on the street but annoying on the track. Power delivery with the single is much smoother in that area.
-Max
Manny, look at the turbo transition for cars with sequential turbos and all the bolt ons. My car had like a 100 RWHP jump from 5000-5500 RPM. I am sure some of that was some boost spiking, but still, you are going to have a big, abrupt jump in power from the exhaust opening up when the second turbo comes online. I always found that amusing on the street but annoying on the track. Power delivery with the single is much smoother in that area.
-Max
12-02-02, 08:57 PM
#43
Full Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: cincinnati
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you know guys i've only done two events(putnam&mid-o) but i had no problem keeping the revs between 5&7k...so it seems the transition issue is mute. manny i know a gentleman who has the datalogit that would be happy to tune your set-up once your on the road. you'll have to drive to nashville, but if you get it together before i get down there, we can go together.
12-02-02, 09:15 PM
#44
The one thing I like with the PFC is the more gradual build of power with seq. twins when compared to just a rechipped ecu or PFS PMC. I had the PFS for about 4 years, boost control was an issue in weather colder than 45 degrees. 2nd turbo would come on hard, no real spike. I then got a M2 stage 3 ecu. Great maps, but the car would be uncontrollable in the corners as the 2nd turbo came on line, gaining roughly 80 rwhp in about 400 rpms. Never had a boost cut (fuel cut)problems in cold weather with it. Got the PFC and love the staged transition with it, 2nd turbo on line an making power at 4200 rpms, compared to the 4800 rpms with the M2 ecu. It also appears to be more linear in power delivery as well, no massive raise at transition, a jump, but more similar to a single turbo rising than a seq turbo with the M2. It too has the problem of controlling boost in cold weather. I'll hit boost cut ( which is .25 higher than what you are trying to make)even with the duty cycle as low as can be. I think you'll like the PFC even at 10 to 10.5 psi.
Tim
Tim
12-03-02, 07:28 AM
#45
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
Tim,
Do you think I'll manage ok with the A'pex PFC at 10 to 10.5 psi in cold weather, without a boost spike or fuel cut-out?? Some say I need a stand-alone boost controller, some say I don't need the boost controller with the A'pex PFC?...so confused...?
Dave,
The initial plan will be:
-new ported motor from KD Rotary (tear down new Malloy Mazda reman, enlarge ports/passages, add HD seals, silicone o-rings, eccentric shaft plug, reassemble)
-new Japan spec sequential twins
-Anfini Y/Cross-Over pipe
-Koyo radiator
-RB intake duct, stock air box, K&N filter
-stock IC and plumbing
-downpipe, high-flow cat, RB dual tip catback
-10 to 10.5 psi boost control
-upgraded fuel pump (no idea which one to buy)
-A'pex Power FC and commander
Of course we must have lightweight racing wheels and sticky tires to run with the big dogs @ Mid Ohio, Putnam Park, and Road America! Volk CE28Ns, 9.5 x 17, 47-mm ET front; 10.5 x 18, 45-mm ET rear; Hoosier R3S03s, 245/40-17 front; 285/30-18 rear.
Timing will be Marchish or Aprilish...
Thankfully the brakes and suspension are fine (Type RS brakes fr/rr, H&R springs, Showa R1 shocks, Eibach sway bars fr/rr, TriPoint fr sway bar mount reinforcer).
As funds are available in summer/fall 2003 I'll add:
-Rotary Extreme HMIC/Greddy Elbow/CAI, Mini Battery kits
-Knightsports or some other low-key vented hood
-fans for the HMIC?
At that point I'll need to do the wide band tuning with the PFC datalogit software; the Rotary Extreme HMIC and CAI will make cooler denser air charges for more hp production....
So am I missing anything on the parts list?
Do you think I'll manage ok with the A'pex PFC at 10 to 10.5 psi in cold weather, without a boost spike or fuel cut-out?? Some say I need a stand-alone boost controller, some say I don't need the boost controller with the A'pex PFC?...so confused...?
Dave,
The initial plan will be:
-new ported motor from KD Rotary (tear down new Malloy Mazda reman, enlarge ports/passages, add HD seals, silicone o-rings, eccentric shaft plug, reassemble)
-new Japan spec sequential twins
-Anfini Y/Cross-Over pipe
-Koyo radiator
-RB intake duct, stock air box, K&N filter
-stock IC and plumbing
-downpipe, high-flow cat, RB dual tip catback
-10 to 10.5 psi boost control
-upgraded fuel pump (no idea which one to buy)
-A'pex Power FC and commander
Of course we must have lightweight racing wheels and sticky tires to run with the big dogs @ Mid Ohio, Putnam Park, and Road America! Volk CE28Ns, 9.5 x 17, 47-mm ET front; 10.5 x 18, 45-mm ET rear; Hoosier R3S03s, 245/40-17 front; 285/30-18 rear.
Timing will be Marchish or Aprilish...
Thankfully the brakes and suspension are fine (Type RS brakes fr/rr, H&R springs, Showa R1 shocks, Eibach sway bars fr/rr, TriPoint fr sway bar mount reinforcer).
As funds are available in summer/fall 2003 I'll add:
-Rotary Extreme HMIC/Greddy Elbow/CAI, Mini Battery kits
-Knightsports or some other low-key vented hood
-fans for the HMIC?
At that point I'll need to do the wide band tuning with the PFC datalogit software; the Rotary Extreme HMIC and CAI will make cooler denser air charges for more hp production....
So am I missing anything on the parts list?
Last edited by SleepR1; 12-03-02 at 07:38 AM.
12-03-02, 09:27 AM
#47
no
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Dallas, TX / Tokyo, Japan currently
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am running a prototype of the RE v-mount and just did a track clinic type event last weekend.
Even with letting Steve Kan take my car out on a member's session, i never saw the water temps go above 190*F, but i didnt have anything hooked up to read intake temps at that time, but i can tell you that the IC fin surface and outlet pipe was very cool to the touch. ambient temp was probably around 60-65*F
Just from driving around town even with no shrouding on the IC my intake temps have been around 70*F. with ducting and a vented hood these should plunge to even nearer or below ambient. I am VERY happy with the setup at this point although i did make some modifications to how it is mounted at the top and the plumbing on the IC to adapt to my single turbo setup.
and btw....the single turbo was VERY nice on the track. power was always available and plentiful even at running only 10 psi. I would seriously look at a single turbo option even though you seem somewhat against the idea. as many others have said, with a smaller exhaust a/r and moderate compressor sized turbo especially on your street port, power wont be that lagged at all and your temps will be much lower not to mention the tremendous drop in diagnostic problems with control of the system as the stock setup is somewhat of a headache sometime.
my apologies for the lack of punctuation - i busted my finger putting an engine into a stupid chevy....
Even with letting Steve Kan take my car out on a member's session, i never saw the water temps go above 190*F, but i didnt have anything hooked up to read intake temps at that time, but i can tell you that the IC fin surface and outlet pipe was very cool to the touch. ambient temp was probably around 60-65*F
Just from driving around town even with no shrouding on the IC my intake temps have been around 70*F. with ducting and a vented hood these should plunge to even nearer or below ambient. I am VERY happy with the setup at this point although i did make some modifications to how it is mounted at the top and the plumbing on the IC to adapt to my single turbo setup.
and btw....the single turbo was VERY nice on the track. power was always available and plentiful even at running only 10 psi. I would seriously look at a single turbo option even though you seem somewhat against the idea. as many others have said, with a smaller exhaust a/r and moderate compressor sized turbo especially on your street port, power wont be that lagged at all and your temps will be much lower not to mention the tremendous drop in diagnostic problems with control of the system as the stock setup is somewhat of a headache sometime.
my apologies for the lack of punctuation - i busted my finger putting an engine into a stupid chevy....
12-03-02, 09:32 AM
#48
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
Oh yeah, forgot to mention...got one already, 8.5-lb billet aluminum from M2 with an ACT pressure plate, and Bonez sport clutch disc...
Originally posted by rotary-tt
I would think you would want a lightweight flywheel which will make the engine rev more freely.
I would think you would want a lightweight flywheel which will make the engine rev more freely.
12-03-02, 09:37 AM
#49
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
Nic,
Yeah, if I didn't want, no, NEED my A/C, I'd go with an RE V-mount IC/Rad setup...
I've committed to the J-spec twins; I have a brand new set still sitting in its box from SR Motorsports--garage sale price of $2599 plus $50 shipping from Cali do Indy... This was a stellar deal. Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development charges $2904 plus shipping. Retail, the J-specs are closer to $3500...
Yeah, if I didn't want, no, NEED my A/C, I'd go with an RE V-mount IC/Rad setup...
I've committed to the J-spec twins; I have a brand new set still sitting in its box from SR Motorsports--garage sale price of $2599 plus $50 shipping from Cali do Indy... This was a stellar deal. Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development charges $2904 plus shipping. Retail, the J-specs are closer to $3500...
12-03-02, 09:54 AM
#50
no
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Dallas, TX / Tokyo, Japan currently
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well what i'm saying is that my water temps are cool enough and there seems to be enough room where i dont see why you cant just put the condensor in front of the radiator mounted at that angle.
you would have to fabricate some mounts and maybe modify a few of the lines, but i think it is completely possible.
the other part you will have to change with the v-mount is the cooling line for the PS - that is something i havent messed with much yet and still figuring out what i want to do there and how to do it.
i just think the transition on the twins and their unreliable nature would be a huge disadvantage at the track or even on the street. i couldnt imagine having to worry about the transition coming on or the boost not being there correctly while driving the car at its limit....but i am sure that you are most likely a better driver than me due to your experience....
keep an IC near top of your list though...high intake temps are a big enemy.
you would have to fabricate some mounts and maybe modify a few of the lines, but i think it is completely possible.
the other part you will have to change with the v-mount is the cooling line for the PS - that is something i havent messed with much yet and still figuring out what i want to do there and how to do it.
i just think the transition on the twins and their unreliable nature would be a huge disadvantage at the track or even on the street. i couldnt imagine having to worry about the transition coming on or the boost not being there correctly while driving the car at its limit....but i am sure that you are most likely a better driver than me due to your experience....
keep an IC near top of your list though...high intake temps are a big enemy.