Fan issue after front mount install
09-14-11, 07:14 AM
#1
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Fan issue after front mount install
I put everything back together and I drove the car yesterday.
I have a 4 pin cable that comes off the front harness where the hood latch is at that I am not sure what it goes to.
I drove the car to work and everything seemed fine. I go to show a buddy of mine the car and the fans were both running.
I turned the car on and then off and the fans stop. I think to myself " damn that was weird "
I then stand around the hood with him and the fan on the drivers side starts to spin slowly then comes to a stop. I listen to the fan motor and it sounds like it is shorting out.
I switched the harnesses for the fans and it starts doing the same thing on the pass side fan.
Does anyone know what this could be?
I have a 4 pin cable that comes off the front harness where the hood latch is at that I am not sure what it goes to.
I drove the car to work and everything seemed fine. I go to show a buddy of mine the car and the fans were both running.
I turned the car on and then off and the fans stop. I think to myself " damn that was weird "
I then stand around the hood with him and the fan on the drivers side starts to spin slowly then comes to a stop. I listen to the fan motor and it sounds like it is shorting out.
I switched the harnesses for the fans and it starts doing the same thing on the pass side fan.
Does anyone know what this could be?
09-14-11, 04:39 PM
#3
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yea, check to make sure you reconnected the ground wires near the front cross member support. There should be two of them, one on both side with some black ground wire going into them. if they are loose or not making proper contact, the fans will run by itself and you won't be able to start the car.
09-14-11, 04:53 PM
#4
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Well the car turns on. I added some water to the AST and it started working fine. Now my issue is that i have a koyo radiator and a apexi front mount. The Pettit AST is sitting where my Air pump used to mount to. The top bracket bolt.
I drove the car on the hi-way for about 15-20 min and the temps started to creep up. about 5 min of that time was on the street and the temps were at 80 for the drive. As soon as i jumped on the hi-way it went to 81, 82, 83 ...... till reaching 95 and it stopped there cause I had to get off the hi-way.
i dont have any special ducting dont right now so know this is prob why. I also remembered that when i put the front bumper on i could not find the oil cooler duct. I only have one oil cooler.
Finally when I got home I parked the car and I am using a water wetter bottle for an overflow tank. After the car was parked the wetter wetter bottle was filled.
Any ideas or suggestions would be gladly appreciated.
I drove the car on the hi-way for about 15-20 min and the temps started to creep up. about 5 min of that time was on the street and the temps were at 80 for the drive. As soon as i jumped on the hi-way it went to 81, 82, 83 ...... till reaching 95 and it stopped there cause I had to get off the hi-way.
i dont have any special ducting dont right now so know this is prob why. I also remembered that when i put the front bumper on i could not find the oil cooler duct. I only have one oil cooler.
Finally when I got home I parked the car and I am using a water wetter bottle for an overflow tank. After the car was parked the wetter wetter bottle was filled.
Any ideas or suggestions would be gladly appreciated.
09-14-11, 07:23 PM
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what was the weather temperature when you were driving? i'm assuming you have a PFC that's how you're getting an air temp reading, so if you have access to a datalogit, change the fan temps to come on sooner than currently set.
09-14-11, 08:03 PM
#6
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I had the fans set to kick in at 74. I dont think that unplugging the battery changes anything in the PFC.
09-15-11, 11:37 AM
#7
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I drove it around town today in the heat of the morning. I didnt drive it far and the temps were at 80 when sitting at my house idle. Started to drive and they went up to 81 and 82 fairly quickly. Then i kept driving light to light. It would go up a degree and minute until it got to 96 when i got home. Maybe a 20 min drive.
I have no idea why this is happening. My AST starts to pit water out until it goes below half way full.
Also when I turn the car on no matter if the coolant system is filled i get the warning for low coolant in the dash for about a minute after I turn the car on.
Here is a pic of my PFC
I have no idea why this is happening. My AST starts to pit water out until it goes below half way full.
Also when I turn the car on no matter if the coolant system is filled i get the warning for low coolant in the dash for about a minute after I turn the car on.
Here is a pic of my PFC
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09-15-11, 12:01 PM
#8
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is this a brand new PFC or did you mess with it recently?
if your car worked before the intercooler install then it is obvious where your problem is
the first thing I would do is figure out where that 4pin cable plugs in that you left dangling if you have not yet.
now, did you just buy this PFC? or did you get it from someone used?
if so, put the stock ecu back and see if your fans work
turn on the A/C, do the fans run properly? though you probably removed the A/C
if your car worked before the intercooler install then it is obvious where your problem is
the first thing I would do is figure out where that 4pin cable plugs in that you left dangling if you have not yet.
now, did you just buy this PFC? or did you get it from someone used?
if so, put the stock ecu back and see if your fans work
turn on the A/C, do the fans run properly? though you probably removed the A/C
09-15-11, 12:15 PM
#9
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is this a brand new PFC or did you mess with it recently?
if your car worked before the intercooler install then it is obvious where your problem is
the first thing I would do is figure out where that 4pin cable plugs in that you left dangling if you have not yet.
now, did you just buy this PFC? or did you get it from someone used?
if so, put the stock ecu back and see if your fans work
turn on the A/C, do the fans run properly? though you probably removed the A/C
if your car worked before the intercooler install then it is obvious where your problem is
the first thing I would do is figure out where that 4pin cable plugs in that you left dangling if you have not yet.
now, did you just buy this PFC? or did you get it from someone used?
if so, put the stock ecu back and see if your fans work
turn on the A/C, do the fans run properly? though you probably removed the A/C
It is normal for coolant to start to come out of the overflow when the car reaches 95C?
Also since there are 2 fans and one is for the AC and the other is for the Rad, could i have the plug plug into the wrong fan?
I do have AC it just doesnt work lol
09-15-11, 12:50 PM
#10
1) pull all the relays off the plastic skirt behind the RF headlight, disconnect them and clean the connections and add new electric compound grease. these connections usually are the culprit for intermittent fan related issues, followed by failing relays due to the bad connections. generally i find they can be burned/melted or simply full of dirt and crap which is what causes the bad connections in the first place.
2) disconnect the battery and turn the fans by hand slowly feeling for any binding, if there is any rough spots make sure nothing fell into the fan shroud and is binding the blades which will burn up the motors. if nothing is in the shroud and the motors feel rough, they are likely old and tired or were damage from something in the shroud previously.
once you have all the fan system components checked move onto the cooling system issue.
3) rent a cooling system pressure tester from your local auto parts store. remove the AST cap and pressure test it, if it is holding less than ~11psi over a several minute period, replace it.
4) if the cap is holding pressure ok then reinstall it and now place the cooling system pressure tester onto the filler neck location at the top of the water pump housing, pressurize the system to 14psi and check for leaks. if you hear water being pushed into the overflow tank from the AST housing then congrats, you have a shitty weak poorly manufactured AST as almost all of them are and need to replace it.
5) if nothing is forced through the AST and no physical leaks are present, leave the pressure tester on the engine for 5 minutes and note the pressure drop, if any. if you are noticing pressure dropping more than a few psi over a 5 minute period with no external leaks present, remove the EGI fuse and crank the engine over 3 revolutions, remove the bottom spark plugs and inspect them for wetness, any wetness that doesn't immediately burn off with a lighter means you have a bad water seal in the engine.
this will all comprehensively get you to the root of your issues.
2) disconnect the battery and turn the fans by hand slowly feeling for any binding, if there is any rough spots make sure nothing fell into the fan shroud and is binding the blades which will burn up the motors. if nothing is in the shroud and the motors feel rough, they are likely old and tired or were damage from something in the shroud previously.
once you have all the fan system components checked move onto the cooling system issue.
3) rent a cooling system pressure tester from your local auto parts store. remove the AST cap and pressure test it, if it is holding less than ~11psi over a several minute period, replace it.
4) if the cap is holding pressure ok then reinstall it and now place the cooling system pressure tester onto the filler neck location at the top of the water pump housing, pressurize the system to 14psi and check for leaks. if you hear water being pushed into the overflow tank from the AST housing then congrats, you have a shitty weak poorly manufactured AST as almost all of them are and need to replace it.
5) if nothing is forced through the AST and no physical leaks are present, leave the pressure tester on the engine for 5 minutes and note the pressure drop, if any. if you are noticing pressure dropping more than a few psi over a 5 minute period with no external leaks present, remove the EGI fuse and crank the engine over 3 revolutions, remove the bottom spark plugs and inspect them for wetness, any wetness that doesn't immediately burn off with a lighter means you have a bad water seal in the engine.
this will all comprehensively get you to the root of your issues.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-15-11 at 12:53 PM.
09-15-11, 01:13 PM
#11
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1) pull all the relays off the plastic skirt behind the RF headlight, disconnect them and clean the connections and add new electric compound grease. these connections usually are the culprit for intermittent fan related issues, followed by failing relays due to the bad connections. generally i find they can be burned/melted or simply full of dirt and crap which is what causes the bad connections in the first place.
2) disconnect the battery and turn the fans by hand slowly feeling for any binding, if there is any rough spots make sure nothing fell into the fan shroud and is binding the blades which will burn up the motors. if nothing is in the shroud and the motors feel rough, they are likely old and tired or were damage from something in the shroud previously.
once you have all the fan system components checked move onto the cooling system issue.
3) rent a cooling system pressure tester from your local auto parts store. remove the AST cap and pressure test it, if it is holding less than ~11psi over a several minute period, replace it.
4) if the cap is holding pressure ok then reinstall it and now place the cooling system pressure tester onto the filler neck location at the top of the water pump housing, pressurize the system to 14psi and check for leaks. if you hear water being pushed into the overflow tank from the AST housing then congrats, you have a shitty weak poorly manufactured AST as almost all of them are and need to replace it.
5) if nothing is forced through the AST and no physical leaks are present, leave the pressure tester on the engine for 5 minutes and note the pressure drop, if any. if you are noticing pressure dropping more than a few psi over a 5 minute period with no external leaks present, remove the EGI fuse and crank the engine over 3 revolutions, remove the bottom spark plugs and inspect them for wetness, any wetness that doesn't immediately burn off with a lighter means you have a bad water seal in the engine.
this will all comprehensively get you to the root of your issues.
2) disconnect the battery and turn the fans by hand slowly feeling for any binding, if there is any rough spots make sure nothing fell into the fan shroud and is binding the blades which will burn up the motors. if nothing is in the shroud and the motors feel rough, they are likely old and tired or were damage from something in the shroud previously.
once you have all the fan system components checked move onto the cooling system issue.
3) rent a cooling system pressure tester from your local auto parts store. remove the AST cap and pressure test it, if it is holding less than ~11psi over a several minute period, replace it.
4) if the cap is holding pressure ok then reinstall it and now place the cooling system pressure tester onto the filler neck location at the top of the water pump housing, pressurize the system to 14psi and check for leaks. if you hear water being pushed into the overflow tank from the AST housing then congrats, you have a shitty weak poorly manufactured AST as almost all of them are and need to replace it.
5) if nothing is forced through the AST and no physical leaks are present, leave the pressure tester on the engine for 5 minutes and note the pressure drop, if any. if you are noticing pressure dropping more than a few psi over a 5 minute period with no external leaks present, remove the EGI fuse and crank the engine over 3 revolutions, remove the bottom spark plugs and inspect them for wetness, any wetness that doesn't immediately burn off with a lighter means you have a bad water seal in the engine.
this will all comprehensively get you to the root of your issues.
I will get the pressure tester after work today to check it out. I hope it is not a coolant seal. The motor does smoke or blow water out when the car is running with the cap off.
09-15-11, 01:32 PM
#13
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Everything gets hot under the hood at 95 bro. LOL The fans were working fine before and they work perfectly with no resistance
09-15-11, 01:38 PM
#14
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I will tell you this
if your fans dont work at idle, and you dont have your undershroud on for airflow at highway speeds - you are basically shooting yourself in the foot
don't even bother worrying about the AST until you fix those fans and make your duct.
if your fans dont work at idle, and you dont have your undershroud on for airflow at highway speeds - you are basically shooting yourself in the foot
don't even bother worrying about the AST until you fix those fans and make your duct.
09-15-11, 01:52 PM
#15
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I cut the bottom of the bottom cover and pulled it down with some brackets to get cool air from the outside and even with that i got to 96 today
09-15-11, 02:12 PM
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if your fans work properly at idle and your car has only been running a minute or two and the AST is pushing out fluid into the overflow tank
you need to do the bubble test
of course, like karak said test the caps and such, easy stuff first
if you had a bad waterpump or thermostat it would explain overheating, but not forcing liquid out
Im not sure what a water wetter bottle is unless you mean a little plastic bottle with a cap
that can explain low liquid in the coolant system, if the water is not being pulled back in properly as your engine cools
but not if its gushing out while the engine is on
btw the AST must be the highest point in your cooling system, hard to tell from your pic
you need to do the bubble test
of course, like karak said test the caps and such, easy stuff first
if you had a bad waterpump or thermostat it would explain overheating, but not forcing liquid out
Im not sure what a water wetter bottle is unless you mean a little plastic bottle with a cap
that can explain low liquid in the coolant system, if the water is not being pulled back in properly as your engine cools
but not if its gushing out while the engine is on
btw the AST must be the highest point in your cooling system, hard to tell from your pic
09-15-11, 02:31 PM
#17
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if your fans work properly at idle and your car has only been running a minute or two and the AST is pushing out fluid into the overflow tank
you need to do the bubble test
of course, like karak said test the caps and such, easy stuff first
if you had a bad waterpump or thermostat it would explain overheating, but not forcing liquid out
Im not sure what a water wetter bottle is unless you mean a little plastic bottle with a cap
that can explain low liquid in the coolant system, if the water is not being pulled back in properly as your engine cools
but not if its gushing out while the engine is on
btw the AST must be the highest point in your cooling system, hard to tell from your pic
you need to do the bubble test
of course, like karak said test the caps and such, easy stuff first
if you had a bad waterpump or thermostat it would explain overheating, but not forcing liquid out
Im not sure what a water wetter bottle is unless you mean a little plastic bottle with a cap
that can explain low liquid in the coolant system, if the water is not being pulled back in properly as your engine cools
but not if its gushing out while the engine is on
btw the AST must be the highest point in your cooling system, hard to tell from your pic
Yeah my fans work properly. At 74 they kick on and never turn off unless you turn the ignition off. That is because i had then kick in at 74 in the PFC.
I am getting the pressure tester now and see what that does.
Watter wetter is a liquid that you put into your cooling system that if you add distilled water and also a little bit of coolant it is supposed to keep your engine running cooler than with antifreeze. Since I live in Florida antifreeze is not really needed.
Like I have stated before i could not find the hose from my overflow hose so not I have it going into the used water wetter bottle. The hose does not go in to the bottom of the bottle though.
My AST sits an inch lower than that my fill cap on the Tstat housing. I believe the factory location is a little lower that what i have it at.
09-15-11, 04:26 PM
#18
the AST positioning isn't an issue. but i would double check that the lines are positioned correctly. the top line goes to overflow tank, the bottom line goes to the radiator, the middle line goes to the water pump housing.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-15-11 at 04:28 PM.
09-15-11, 07:56 PM
#19
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I sat there until it was 103. I opened the ignition to let the fans work and they would not come on with the ignition on. I then started to mess with the cabled and nothing. I go look at the temp and I hear the fans. I was like wth, so i jumped in the car and drove home. The temp started to drop and then it got down to 92. I parked at home and the fans were still running. I let it run for a bit and the temp was at a solid 92.
Could my fans be lazy and not wanting to work very good?
09-16-11, 11:53 AM
#20
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I took the car apart again to do some good ducting work and also because I found my oil cooler duct. I though about this and went ahead and did it. Well look at the pic below.
I pretty much turned my condenser so it sits behind my Intercooler.
This is the misterious connector that i have no idea what it is for. I has a black and a white wire or at least it seems that way
This is the scoop i plan on building
let me know if this is worth the mods and time
I pretty much turned my condenser so it sits behind my Intercooler.
This is the misterious connector that i have no idea what it is for. I has a black and a white wire or at least it seems that way
This is the scoop i plan on building
let me know if this is worth the mods and time
09-16-11, 01:26 PM
#21
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I would just stand your radiator up like a normal front mount install
though it's up to you if you want to take the time and money to make a duct that may or may not work
the problem is not that radiators cant be slanted, the problem is you have something vertical in front of it.
this is what I am assuming is happening, fast flowing air hits the intercooler at highway speeds-
it is then slowed down as it enters and exits the core
next the air hits your slanted radiator-
but since the air is slow and drag under the car is faster, all the air basically just slides down the radiator like a slide and exits under the car
though it's up to you if you want to take the time and money to make a duct that may or may not work
the problem is not that radiators cant be slanted, the problem is you have something vertical in front of it.
this is what I am assuming is happening, fast flowing air hits the intercooler at highway speeds-
it is then slowed down as it enters and exits the core
next the air hits your slanted radiator-
but since the air is slow and drag under the car is faster, all the air basically just slides down the radiator like a slide and exits under the car
09-16-11, 03:49 PM
#22
are you reading those temps off the power fc? if so then you have something still wrong with the fan electrical system. did you inspect the relays and connections? commonly they can melt and cause intermittent function.
but i'm still not sure what to think about the coolant being forced into the reservoir issue. did you pressure test the whole system including AST with good cap as suggested? if it all checks out good, then sorry to say but you have a bad water seal which is overpressurizing the system and there is no cure for it aside from you know what.
all of the ducting efforts are just having you chasing your tail.
but i'm still not sure what to think about the coolant being forced into the reservoir issue. did you pressure test the whole system including AST with good cap as suggested? if it all checks out good, then sorry to say but you have a bad water seal which is overpressurizing the system and there is no cure for it aside from you know what.
all of the ducting efforts are just having you chasing your tail.
09-16-11, 05:41 PM
#23
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I didnt want to stand the radiator up hence me cutting the intercooler and fitting the pipes in a direction that would allow me to run it with the rad sitting in its original location.
I bought a new cap for the ast and now it is working like it should. When the temps go too high it spits water out and then as it cools down it sucks it back. With the new cap yesterday it help pressure without spitting water until 106. I got it to stay at 92. My fans do not see to be putting out as much power as they used to.
I forgot to mention that when i did the whole swap of the rads I took the fan shroud out and also the motors of the fans to clean off some rust. I covered the shafts and painted the shells.
My fans used to work perfect and my temps only saw 92 when I was pushing it then gradually come back down to 84-87.
I am not sure which relays to look at. I took my fuse box and hid it under the drivers head light and the main fuse box is next to the brake booster.
I also relocated all of the fan relays to where the oil cooler goes on the pass side.
I am not sure what relays to look for? Also when I was messing with the fan connections last night when i got home I though that the fans turned off then on, but that might just have been a coincidence.
I bought a new cap for the ast and now it is working like it should. When the temps go too high it spits water out and then as it cools down it sucks it back. With the new cap yesterday it help pressure without spitting water until 106. I got it to stay at 92. My fans do not see to be putting out as much power as they used to.
I forgot to mention that when i did the whole swap of the rads I took the fan shroud out and also the motors of the fans to clean off some rust. I covered the shafts and painted the shells.
My fans used to work perfect and my temps only saw 92 when I was pushing it then gradually come back down to 84-87.
I am not sure which relays to look at. I took my fuse box and hid it under the drivers head light and the main fuse box is next to the brake booster.
I also relocated all of the fan relays to where the oil cooler goes on the pass side.
I am not sure what relays to look for? Also when I was messing with the fan connections last night when i got home I though that the fans turned off then on, but that might just have been a coincidence.
09-16-11, 05:48 PM
#24
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Also the system used to spit water through the AST with the pressure tester at just like 11PSI, but the guage said that it had 4 psi with no pressure on the kit. Once i got a 16psi cap for the ast i cranked the system through to a little over 20 thinking that the gauge was off by 4-5psi. It held pressure like it should.
I also dont get bubbles in the system when most people experience a bad coolant seal. At least I hope. I also mentioned that when I drove the car last night the temps got to 104 and when i shut the car off and opened the ignition the fans would not come on. It took like 7 tries and like 20 min to get them to kick on.
I also dont get bubbles in the system when most people experience a bad coolant seal. At least I hope. I also mentioned that when I drove the car last night the temps got to 104 and when i shut the car off and opened the ignition the fans would not come on. It took like 7 tries and like 20 min to get them to kick on.
09-17-11, 08:50 PM
#25
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Ok i made the duct i was talking about just for the rad. I put everything back together and it seemed ok. let the car idle and the fans didnt kick on at 74 like i had on the pfc. I didnt have my datalogit handy to check and make sure. I checked the fans with a battery and they both work.
I then turn the blower switch to the 1 position and it turns both of the fans. It does this for all 4 settings.
When i turn the blower off both fans power off.
I still cannot find what that unknown plug is for on the front harness. It comes out at the same place in the harness as the right side ground plug with the 4 ground cables.
Does anyone have any idea before I go out and spend a fortune on fan relays?
Also every time I turn the car on the low coolant light comes on and then the buzzer goes off for like 20-30 secs.
Thanks to all of you for the great help.
I then turn the blower switch to the 1 position and it turns both of the fans. It does this for all 4 settings.
When i turn the blower off both fans power off.
I still cannot find what that unknown plug is for on the front harness. It comes out at the same place in the harness as the right side ground plug with the 4 ground cables.
Does anyone have any idea before I go out and spend a fortune on fan relays?
Also every time I turn the car on the low coolant light comes on and then the buzzer goes off for like 20-30 secs.
Thanks to all of you for the great help.