It isn't that easy to get a secured loan for these cars because of their age. Some people don't want to pay the high interest rate you get with an unsecured loan.

But yes, I wouldn't do it either.

 

No need to apologize. I enjoyed reading your point of view.



Back on topic, I agree that running without any cat converters is selfish, especially if the car spends much time on *populated* public roads. Following a catless car (especially a rotary) for any length of time should convince anyone.

 

Selfish, maybe, but isn't owning a sports car inherently selfish? There's no practical use for a car like the FD, they are here for one reason, our own pleasure. How can we car pool if we own an FD? How can we save gas to curb the gas demand and help lower prices for everyone if we drive one of the least fuel efficient, least economical and lease useful vehicles on the road?

Call me selfish for having an emissionsless car, but ask yourself why you own an FD (or any sports car) in the first place.

 

I agree completely. You did a better job of making the point that I was trying to make. The concept goes way beyond just cars.

We are all selfish in many of the decisions we make. We each have to decide how much we are willing to let others suffer while we thrive. The $3.50 that I spend on a latte could feed a family instead. Selfishly, I buy the coffee. I think it is important to realize that I'm choosing my own caffeine over the lives of others. I'll still choose to buy the coffee, but I won't choose to be blinded by ignorance to the consequences of my decision.

 

Whoa there...you're touching on a whole other topic (which is obviously completely irrelevant to this thread, so I'll tread lightly).

How we let others suffer? I've busted my *** to get where I am today. Should I be responsible for other's decisions? Whether poor or otherwise? Absolutely not. I chose to buy this car because that's what I enjoy. It's hardly selfish. The underlying thing here is going to be greed and money. I'm not greedy, nor do I hoard money. But society, popular opinion, etc make it such that you NEED money. It's sexy to be wealthy and greedy and arrogant. I'm neither of those things (certainly not the former) and take offense to the suggestion that I'm the latter two.

Do you know that I do give to charities? It's not much, but it's increasing. Do you? Does anyone else? Not spending every other dollar on someone else hardly makes one selfish. That's rediculous. Maybe by that definition, I'll quit working, get on the street and hit you up for change every day and we'll see how far that selfishness goes. Don't be hypocritical here.

 

So you've worked hard to further your life, but not to further anyone elses. You've worked so that you could have the life you want. You bought the FD because you wanted the FD not because you needed it.

That is selfish. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, I'm just pointing out the obvious inconsistency in Dave G's original selfishness argument. My entire point here is every single one of us does basically what we want to do. I think Dave Hays said it best:

"We each have to decide how much we are willing to let others suffer while we thrive."

It is what it is, don't try to hide it.

 

So do you do anything in that regard then?

 

In which regard? Do I live my life to serve others around me? No.

 

Then don't argue for his point. That is hypocritical. (Unless I'm off base and you weren't, in which case I apologize)

Sorry for derailing the thread.

 

I must not have explained myself very well. I wasn't suggesting that you are greedy or arrogant. However, whether we like to admit it or not, every time we spend a single dime, we are making a choice about helping others or helping ourselves. Most often, it is a combination. Choosing to spend money on ourselves, instead of using it to help those in need is a selfish action ie choosing self above others. Eliminating emissions is the same, choosing one's own desires over the welfare of others.

I do it all the time. I went sailing this afternoon. I have a boat, spend money on moorage fees, burn diesel going in and out of the harbor, and today we stopped for ice cream on the way home. All that represents money that I have selfishly decided to spend on my own pleasure instead of using it to help others. I can live with it, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that how I live doesn't affect the lives of others. I'm not wealthy but I could keep an entire village alive in some parts of the world just with what I spend on recreation.

 

When I used the word "selfish" for the first time in this thread, it was not in regards to money. Cars, especially heavy polluters are selfish in terms of resource usage.

We live in a world with 7 billion people. I don't believe it's sustainable, so therefore in some way each person using resources is selfish. But I'm not a fool - I don't advocate that everyone reverts to bicycles and transforms their backyard into a garden - I'm just saying that each day I make decisions that affect how the resources I consume. I think a little bit about which ones use the most resources (not just in cost, but in consumables and pollution). As a result I'm limiting my highest consumption for things that directly make me happy. Along those lines, removing the emissions equipment on my FD doesn't make my autocrossing it any more fun (since my class doesn't allow deletion), nor does it make street driving more fun. When I decide which car to take to work in the morning, I can take a Nissan that gets 25mpg or my FD which tends closer to 16mpg. I rarely take the FD to work just because I know that trip isn't as enjoyable as others.

Dave