emission test yesterday - the results - need your input
01-30-07, 07:49 AM
#26
Warming the planet.
Originally Posted by a3dcadman
Nice write-up! Thanks for the info. Im going to try it again tomorrow as I believe I have implemented all of the changes needed to pull this thing off now. Im going to lean it out a little bit more 0-4000 and go for 15-15.5 afr.
What killed my idle test last time was at the end of the test when my car started to die. I watched my afrs go to ~11.5-12.5 and I had a feeling that it was probably going to fail.
Im glad that their personnel dont drive our vehicles. They saw my computer and wide band setup and said nothing. One of the guys that worked there said before I started that they should give sports cars with turbos like the RX7 and Celica Supra waivers because of the what the cars were designed for - lots of power and to go fast. Unfortunately, he wasnt the one that tested my car.
Jeff, I am going to run it in Hold mode in second for the 25mph test. I did notice that my afrs were better at their designated testing speed. At idle when in gear my afrs were more consistent and stable while holding the idle speed at 800-850 rpm.
thanks again for all the info.
-chuck
What killed my idle test last time was at the end of the test when my car started to die. I watched my afrs go to ~11.5-12.5 and I had a feeling that it was probably going to fail.
Im glad that their personnel dont drive our vehicles. They saw my computer and wide band setup and said nothing. One of the guys that worked there said before I started that they should give sports cars with turbos like the RX7 and Celica Supra waivers because of the what the cars were designed for - lots of power and to go fast. Unfortunately, he wasnt the one that tested my car.
Jeff, I am going to run it in Hold mode in second for the 25mph test. I did notice that my afrs were better at their designated testing speed. At idle when in gear my afrs were more consistent and stable while holding the idle speed at 800-850 rpm.
thanks again for all the info.
-chuck
Paul
01-30-07, 01:46 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Gadd
Are you seeing these AFRs with the air pump connected? With the pump running you should see 17 to 18 AFRs too 2500 RPM (that translates to 14, 15s with the pump disconnected) then 14, 15s in vacuum when the air pump shuts off.
Paul
Paul
-chuck
01-30-07, 01:55 PM
#28
Weird Cat Man
My air pump that I test with is a C5 'vette eletric pump pushing air directly into the cat via the "split air" pipe. Since my wideband is upstream of the cat, any numbers I'm measuring don't take the air pump air into account.
01-30-07, 02:19 PM
#29
Recovering Miataholic
Since my wideband is upstream of the cat, any numbers I'm measuring don't take the air pump air into account.
Last edited by wstrohm; 01-30-07 at 02:28 PM.
01-30-07, 09:44 PM
#30
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This afternoon I took the third test. This time i failed the idle HC (PPM) only by a very small margin. I am going to get ahold of a guy at the dept of ecology tomorrow providing him with the numbers for the three tests and see if he will grant me a waiver. The rules say that normally to get a waiver, one must spend $150 with a certified ecology authorized emission specialist. FAT CHANCE! Overall each test showed a significant improvement.
Anyway, I have put all the results in the attached document file for those that are interested.
Anyway, I have put all the results in the attached document file for those that are interested.
01-31-07, 11:42 AM
#31
Recovering Miataholic
The afrs were adjusted to 14-15 with the pump running. When the air pump shuts off, I have afrs adjusted to maintain 14-15 up to 4000rpm.
Are you seeing these AFRs with the air pump connected? With the pump running you should see 17 to 18 AFRs too 2500 RPM (that translates to 14, 15s with the pump disconnected) then 14, 15s in vacuum when the air pump shuts off.
Bottom line: If you are setting a map for indicated A/F = 14 - 15 with air pump running, and your A/F is being read from your O2 sensor, you are way rich.
01-31-07, 11:49 PM
#32
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I wasnt aware of the air also being injected into the exhaust manifold before the O2 sensor, which is where my afr readings are coming from for both the wide band and the analog signal generated by the wide band which feeds the ecu.
Today I spoke with a guy at the dept of ecology - vehicle emissions division and he was receptive to my request for a waiver for the emissions test. He reviewed the data and felt that I had made a substantial difference with each test and was heading in the right direction for meeting the emissions test standards. He asked who had worked on the car and how much I had spent to resolve the problem. I told him that I had a rotary engine specialist tweak the engine which was completely rebuilt about 2000 miles ago and never formally tuned and didnt have to spend any additional money. Didnt tell him the specialist was me! Anyway, he granted the waiver and told me I could get my tabs within the hour.
On the road again...... legally!
-chuck
Today I spoke with a guy at the dept of ecology - vehicle emissions division and he was receptive to my request for a waiver for the emissions test. He reviewed the data and felt that I had made a substantial difference with each test and was heading in the right direction for meeting the emissions test standards. He asked who had worked on the car and how much I had spent to resolve the problem. I told him that I had a rotary engine specialist tweak the engine which was completely rebuilt about 2000 miles ago and never formally tuned and didnt have to spend any additional money. Didnt tell him the specialist was me! Anyway, he granted the waiver and told me I could get my tabs within the hour.
On the road again...... legally!
-chuck
02-01-07, 12:45 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by mazdatim
Awesome, if only I could be so lucky.
The eco guy did mention that he often had similar requests but did not see any positive progress with the readings and because of this did not grant waivers. He also said that getting all the numbers to stabilize for the various readings was a balancing act because adjusting one reading to spec could affect another reading adversely.
-chuck
02-01-07, 11:08 AM
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I had similar problems a few years back in Arizona. '93 FD very lightly modified. In Phoenix the test is very tight. The program is run by the state, a full dyno test all the way to highway speeds and the test tells the tester specifically when to shift, accelerate, decelerate etc... If you are marginal or failing the test will run 240 seconds for get the longest sample possible. If your are passing with ease the test will shut off after 30 seconds (such as with grandma's '05 camry) I was failing marginally on both HC and NOX. I let my tank get below 1/8th and put 4 pints of 90%+ rubbing alcohol in the tank and drove to the emissions station. The test shut off after 30 secs. and the HC and NOX levels where approximately 1/4 of the state standards. I then went and topped off with super unleaded with no ill effects. Do it - it does work. I did it for three subsequent years in Texas and always passed with flying colors.
02-01-07, 12:42 PM
#36
Recovering Miataholic
Our nearly stock '94 FD failed in 2002. I eventually had to buy an OEM cat converter at a cost of around $1200; I had tried new O2 sensor, new plugs and wires, etc. The pre-cat had been replaced by a DP, but since the engine was always warm for the tests, that wasn't the problem. I had also tried a new aftermarket cat, but that didn't help either. FYI, our 2006 emissions numbers with 89249 miles on (original) engine, 16,597 miles on the "new" cat, and running straight 91 octane CA gasoline, were:
Test........RPM.....%CO2.....%O2................HC ppm..........................%CO............................NO ppm
.................................................. ....max....avg....meas.........max....avg....meas. ........max....avg....meas
15 mph...1829......13.1.......2.2........88......21.. ......3............0.52...0.06....0.33..........70 4.....150........6
25 mph...2863......13.1.......2.1........53......13.. ......9............0.50...0.05....0.13..........73 8.....136.......20
This might give some idea of what can be expected from an engine in good shape with this mileage.
Test........RPM.....%CO2.....%O2................HC ppm..........................%CO............................NO ppm
.................................................. ....max....avg....meas.........max....avg....meas. ........max....avg....meas
15 mph...1829......13.1.......2.2........88......21.. ......3............0.52...0.06....0.33..........70 4.....150........6
25 mph...2863......13.1.......2.1........53......13.. ......9............0.50...0.05....0.13..........73 8.....136.......20
This might give some idea of what can be expected from an engine in good shape with this mileage.
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