paul1985

iTrader: (3)

just wondering if i still have to run a boost controller and any other electronics if i am going to run a apexi power fc.

rx7rcer09

yes run a boost controller.

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

you should invest in a good boost gauge, boost controller and water temperature gauge. my .03$

Fortune_Seven

iTrader: (24)

Yes. Especially if you are going to increase your boost levels!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Do you have to? No. The Power FC can control boost. However, generally people mate an electronic boost controller with an aftermarket ECU to provide better control of boost along with the ECU mapping.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

The boost control issue is a matter of opinion. I think the Power FC is the best boost controller out there for sequential turbos. This is because it provides independent control for both actuators just like Mazda designed instead of using one solenoid to control two turbos. It also pushes the wastegate completely closed during before transition and then pushes the precontrol completely open after transition--exactly how Mazda designed it from the factory. It has all the advantages of Mazda's factory engineering, and the behavior of each solenoid can be logged if you have a Datalogit. You can also inexpensively swap out to 3 port solenoids if you choose, which are the same solenoids used in aftermarket systems.

BUT the PFC has a steeper learning curve than say a dual MBC setup. It may require more work and research to get it right. If you just want something completely simple/mindless, get a Profec S and turn the *****, or use a dual MBC.

paul1985

iTrader: (3)

IS the setup still the same if I am going to be running the non-sequential setup. Would I just run an tunable ecu with the profec s or b boost controller. Or would the apexi fc work for it all.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the PFC can control boost. Running non-seq makes the setup easier to control since you don't need/want control over the pre-control. I don't know if the PFC can use "High/Low" settings for boost control which is the main benefit to using an aftermarket electronic boost controller. You can basically have 3 settings with something like a Profec:

OFF - Wastegate spring level (about 7 PSI with the stock twins)
LOW - Level 1 (say 10 PSI)
HIGH - Level 2 (say 14 PSI)

arghx

iTrader: (3)

You will need access to a Datalogit to control non sequential boost with a PFC. There's a setting you have to change that can't be done without using one. But yes, there is a high and low boost option.

paul1985

iTrader: (3)

so in your guys experience and infinite wisdom what would be the best setup. the car is going to be a weekend toy and running on whatever fuel that i need 91 or 100. Im going to have a mild street port with non-sequential setup full open exhaust and all the other works. being able to have different setups would be nice but one all out tune would be ok.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Couldn't parse this. You mean it temporarily closed the wastegate during transition?

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Arghx, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you there.

The PFC is still hampered by the design of the stock boost control system. Mazda designed it with certain parameters in mind - a stock exhaust, stock intake, 10psi. When you're in that neighborhood, it works great.

Problem comes when you start opening things up. On my car, I had a PFC, downpipe, cat-back, intake, and stock main cat. I would frequently have a transition spike on the second turbo, many times going much higher than I'd like to see. The solution to the problem? Drill out the restrictor pills in the stock boost control lines. Playing around with pill sizes is voodoo, not boost control.

If you remove the pills completely, you have no boost - 7 psi and that's it, even with the boost control settings cranked up. Yes, I tried this.

Put in my AVC-R, and even without the RPM based maps I get SOLID boost from 2000 RPM to redline. By changing the transition point with the Datalogit I have NO transition flat spot, just a steady boost all the way up.

The PFC gives you control over the stock boost control, but regardless it's still limited by the fundamental design of the system. Yes, you could replace the pills with 2 manual boost controllers, but at that point you could have bought a good electronic boost controller and been good to go.

My opinion - the PFC's boost control is better than nothing and will get you over the hump until you buy a full on boost controller. Or, if you aren't going very big on mods, it might work for you as it is.

For the original poster, I'd just see how it does with the PFC then go from there. If you're planning on doing a lot to the car, I'd invest in one down the road. Many times you can get good used ones off the forum or Ebay for a very reasonable price.

Dale

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Dale,

a replacement 3 port solenoid equivalent to what you find in most aftermarket controllers is less than $30, thus for almost no money there will be no difference in plumbing between a PFC and an AVCR or Profec.



http://www.frightprops.com/FrightPro...ID=A-0013-0082 1/8" NPT solenoid is listed at $26.50

compare to the Apex'i 3 port solenoid which is basically the same as the Greddy:



If you don't want to cut the factory plug off the engine harness the MAC solenoid I just listed will plug into the factory harness with this connector: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...oducts_id/1674


That's the exact connector that the Apex'i solenoid comes with when you buy the solenoid from them.

What I'm describing here is no different than ditching a restricter-based boost control system on an Evo or STi. Plug a 3 port solenoid into the factory harness and change the plumbing. The solenoid above happens to be the cheapest solution that will work--the Apexi/Greddy solenoid will also work but as you know it's a lot more expensive.

There has been a lot of research and testing done on this in the past year by myself and Sandro on this forum. You are capping off one of the nipples to the wastegate actuator and running one hose to the middle port on the solenoid. Then you run another hose from your pressure source to the solenoid. It's the same hookup as an AVCR, Profec, TurboSmart, AEM Tru Boost, basically every EBC that uses a 3 port solenoid. Boost can then be adjusted with the Commander, as long as you use a Datalogit to adjust the "turbo transition" setting so boost control works properly.



If anything it is a quicker and simpler install than hooking up an external EBC. There are no additional wires or extra sensors to install. There are no boxes or gauges to mount in the interior. The boost control system uses your factory MAP sensor and in the event of a wastegate failure the PFC will cut fuel to protect the engine. The fuel cut may not be the best thing in the world but many people would rather hit fuel cut than severely overboost.

I realize that not many people are running this setup and knowledge of it has not fully penetrated the community, but it does work.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

that's the entire installation. you just plug the solenoid into the factory wastegate solenoid wires and run two vacuum hoses. then get out your datalogit, make sure "sequential turbo control" is ON. "Turbo transition low" should be set to 1800rpm and "Turbo transition high" set to 2000rpm. Now the PFC is controlling boost. You use the "boost" setting to get your boost level in the ballpark (it's not an exact thing) and then make fine adjustments with the "duty" setting. It's no more complicated than making adjustments on a Profec Spec II. It just takes a little fiddling that's all. With the Datalogit you can log the solenoid duty cycle to help you tune the settings if you want to. This works on a factory internal wastegate or can also work with a single turbo setup and external gate, you just need to make a slight plumbing change.

paul1985

iTrader: (3)

so i should just try the pfc or run a electronic boost controller and a tunable ecu?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

That's your decision.