dual oil cooler parts list? what to expect?
11-17-03, 10:28 PM
#28
Another nice thing about the Mocal coolers is that they are much more durable than the stockers when facing road debris. The fins on my stock cooler were beat flat (no air flow) after 80K miles. My Mocal coolers have a few dings, but are generally still in very good condition after 35K miles.
While the coolers themselves are only $130 each or so, there are lots of fittings, the thermostat, ducts, brackets, etc. None of the parts are very expensive on their own, but there are a lot of parts and the costs add up.
-Max
While the coolers themselves are only $130 each or so, there are lots of fittings, the thermostat, ducts, brackets, etc. None of the parts are very expensive on their own, but there are a lot of parts and the costs add up.
-Max
11-18-03, 03:51 AM
#29
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You could build a dual 25 row oil cooler setup using -10 AN fittings and earl's oil coolers(same core as setrab) for appx $450~
My single 25 row setrab oil cooler "kit" cost me $300(with a total of 6 fittings). It has the same capacity as the stock dual oil coolers and cools better. However, living in Okinawa, I did not have to add a thermostat as the coldest it will get here is 60 F during our coldest winter nights.
My single 25 row setrab oil cooler "kit" cost me $300(with a total of 6 fittings). It has the same capacity as the stock dual oil coolers and cools better. However, living in Okinawa, I did not have to add a thermostat as the coldest it will get here is 60 F during our coldest winter nights.
11-18-03, 08:45 AM
#31
Yup. You probably could, but as you say, you gotta add the thermostat, some and fabricating costs for *good* ducts.
Never mind that just INSTALLING the dual kit will cost you 6-8 hrs of labor from a good shop... how long is it gonna take you to engineer your own, source all the parts (with no waste or extras), make several prototypes of the ducts first, fab brackets and such?
In almost every thread about M2/ASP intercoolers, sombody points out that you can get a spearco core for $400 so how come the kit is $1400?
Never mind that just INSTALLING the dual kit will cost you 6-8 hrs of labor from a good shop... how long is it gonna take you to engineer your own, source all the parts (with no waste or extras), make several prototypes of the ducts first, fab brackets and such?
In almost every thread about M2/ASP intercoolers, sombody points out that you can get a spearco core for $400 so how come the kit is $1400?
Originally posted by jspecracer7
You could build a dual 25 row oil cooler setup using -10 AN fittings and earl's oil coolers(same core as setrab) for appx $450~
My single 25 row setrab oil cooler "kit" cost me $300(with a total of 6 fittings). It has the same capacity as the stock dual oil coolers and cools better. However, living in Okinawa, I did not have to add a thermostat as the coldest it will get here is 60 F during our coldest winter nights.
You could build a dual 25 row oil cooler setup using -10 AN fittings and earl's oil coolers(same core as setrab) for appx $450~
My single 25 row setrab oil cooler "kit" cost me $300(with a total of 6 fittings). It has the same capacity as the stock dual oil coolers and cools better. However, living in Okinawa, I did not have to add a thermostat as the coldest it will get here is 60 F during our coldest winter nights.
11-18-03, 08:49 AM
#32
Ever looked at the factory cores and ducts? if the RZs are just bigger versions of the same, then no thanks. As mentioned above, for some reason with this kit, just like the M2 intercoolers, everyone wants to find some other solution, or engineer their own... yet these are the best deal.
Pay Duane your $895, install, be happy.
Pay Duane your $895, install, be happy.
Originally posted by rotary-tt
Another option is the RZ 99+ dual coolers. They are larger. I've talked to JT-Imports about the specs and getting them...
Another option is the RZ 99+ dual coolers. They are larger. I've talked to JT-Imports about the specs and getting them...
11-18-03, 04:53 PM
#35
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Originally posted by RotorMotor
would dual mocal 25 row coolers be any better, or is that just getting stupid?
would dual mocal 25 row coolers be any better, or is that just getting stupid?
Definitely it's worth *considering* the dual 25 row cooler upgrade, but the proof, as they say, is in the pudding. Empirical data from the same car with single and then dual coolers would be the best, and dog willing, I'll be able to do that when I have the money for the dual cooler kit.
11-18-03, 04:58 PM
#36
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wow great website! well done on the coolers. i wanted to ask a few questions though. is there any purpose to keeping the oil cooler ducting that exhausts through the side vents in the car (like keeping hot air out of the engine bay)? also, i will be installing a 20b (so i need as much cooling as i can get) and going with a 99 spec bumper which as bigger openings for the coolers... would getting 2 25 row oil coolers make a difference vs the 19's? im just not sure how id make some good ducts for them. heath
11-18-03, 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by ptrhahn
Yup. You probably could, but as you say, you gotta add the thermostat, some and fabricating costs for *good* ducts.
Never mind that just INSTALLING the dual kit will cost you 6-8 hrs of labor from a good shop... how long is it
gonna take you to engineer your own, source all the parts (with no waste or extras), make several prototypes of the ducts first, fab brackets and such?
In almost every thread about M2/ASP intercoolers, sombody points out that you can get a spearco core for $400 so how come the kit is $1400?
Yup. You probably could, but as you say, you gotta add the thermostat, some and fabricating costs for *good* ducts.
Never mind that just INSTALLING the dual kit will cost you 6-8 hrs of labor from a good shop... how long is it
gonna take you to engineer your own, source all the parts (with no waste or extras), make several prototypes of the ducts first, fab brackets and such?
In almost every thread about M2/ASP intercoolers, sombody points out that you can get a spearco core for $400 so how come the kit is $1400?
1. Install it yourself.
2. Engineer our own? SanJoRX7 and I already have.
3. Ducts? You honestly do not need fancy ducts. Just because CWR likes to do everything in CF doesn't mean you need that level of technology.
4. We already sourced all of the parts, including tstat.
5. Fab brackets? It's an L-shaped piece of sheet aluminum. Use a pair or pliers or a vice with a standard piece of aluminum.
6. We can do the dual 34-row kit ourselves with the exact same specifications for 900-1000$ 700-800$ for dual 25-row Mocals or Earl's.
11-18-03, 05:23 PM
#38
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Originally posted by clayne
A couple points,
1. Install it yourself.
2. Engineer our own? SanJoRX7 and I already have.
3. Ducts? You honestly do not need fancy ducts. Just because CWR likes to do everything in CF doesn't mean you need that level of technology.
4. We already sourced all of the parts, including tstat.
5. Fab brackets? It's an L-shaped piece of sheet aluminum. Use a pair or pliers or a vice with a standard piece of aluminum.
6. We can do the dual 34-row kit ourselves with the exact same specifications for 900-1000$ 700-800$ for dual 25-row Mocals or Earl's.
A couple points,
1. Install it yourself.
2. Engineer our own? SanJoRX7 and I already have.
3. Ducts? You honestly do not need fancy ducts. Just because CWR likes to do everything in CF doesn't mean you need that level of technology.
4. We already sourced all of the parts, including tstat.
5. Fab brackets? It's an L-shaped piece of sheet aluminum. Use a pair or pliers or a vice with a standard piece of aluminum.
6. We can do the dual 34-row kit ourselves with the exact same specifications for 900-1000$ 700-800$ for dual 25-row Mocals or Earl's.
11-18-03, 08:42 PM
#39
Just one word of "advice" big coolers are wholey ineffective without sealed ductwork. PERIOD. Without ducts they are merely big heat sinks and once saturated they are done. And no a cooler with 5 times the surface area will not give you five times the cooling.
Airflow across the upper region of a large cooler will be much reduced (even if ducted). See a trend here? Ducting is everything and for me the primary reason I went with the CWR setup and NOT those sold by Rotary Extreme. As for assmebling a "kit" on your own yeah sure if can be done...jusy look at the pic of the parts on my website and you can see pretty much everything needed but how much time will you spend developing ducts...Oops did I say the "D" word again? To me the ducts were worth the extra cost over simply procuring
the parts myself. If you are good with FRP then have at it. As for the side vents in the car...might be useful for venting engine bay heat if new ducting is fabbed but for the oil coolers nah...I don't think they do much at all.
Crispy
Airflow across the upper region of a large cooler will be much reduced (even if ducted). See a trend here? Ducting is everything and for me the primary reason I went with the CWR setup and NOT those sold by Rotary Extreme. As for assmebling a "kit" on your own yeah sure if can be done...jusy look at the pic of the parts on my website and you can see pretty much everything needed but how much time will you spend developing ducts...Oops did I say the "D" word again? To me the ducts were worth the extra cost over simply procuring
the parts myself. If you are good with FRP then have at it. As for the side vents in the car...might be useful for venting engine bay heat if new ducting is fabbed but for the oil coolers nah...I don't think they do much at all.
Crispy
11-18-03, 11:23 PM
#40
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I think CWR injected you with a syringe of liquified graphite. 
FPG,
Sure, but the condition is that at the same time you've got to do an equally productive write-up and then we'll both share in front of class.
FPG,
Sure, but the condition is that at the same time you've got to do an equally productive write-up and then we'll both share in front of class.
11-19-03, 12:36 AM
#41
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crispy: interesting point about using the side vents to vent from the engine bay... i wonder if they would actually help... but yeah, now that you mention it i dont see the point of the ducts since the wheel wells woud keep the heat out the engine compartment... what was mazda thinking??
ps i found stainless steel aeroquip size 10 hose for $5.65 per foot, same aeroquip hose ends for $20 each (im not sure how to attach them to the hose), 19 row MOCAL $129 each... or 25 row MOCAL $188 each, mocal 180 degree thermostat $80.
so.... ~10 fittings ($200), 2 19 rows and thermo ($340), say this is just a wild guess 30ft of hose ($170) = $710 ....yeah id pay $200 for the ducts so $900 is an ok deal from CWR
ps i found stainless steel aeroquip size 10 hose for $5.65 per foot, same aeroquip hose ends for $20 each (im not sure how to attach them to the hose), 19 row MOCAL $129 each... or 25 row MOCAL $188 each, mocal 180 degree thermostat $80.
so.... ~10 fittings ($200), 2 19 rows and thermo ($340), say this is just a wild guess 30ft of hose ($170) = $710 ....yeah id pay $200 for the ducts so $900 is an ok deal from CWR
Last edited by RotorMotor; 11-19-03 at 12:55 AM.
11-19-03, 12:54 AM
#42
Originally posted by RotorMotor
crispy: interesting point about using the side vents to vent from the engine bay... i wonder if they would actually help... but yeah, now that you mention it i dont see the point of the ducts since the wheel wells woud keep the heat out the engine compartment... what was mazda thinking??
crispy: interesting point about using the side vents to vent from the engine bay... i wonder if they would actually help... but yeah, now that you mention it i dont see the point of the ducts since the wheel wells woud keep the heat out the engine compartment... what was mazda thinking??
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...threadid=60096
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...threadid=31431
11-19-03, 01:58 AM
#44
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Sorry my friend, I never stated the oil cooler kit won't be effective without an aftermarket front end.
Oil does about 30% of engine cooling. Even if you do not road race your car, it's still good to have it. When it comes to cooling, I like extra assurance especially on a rx7 which is known to have cooling problems.
Chuck Huang
Oil does about 30% of engine cooling. Even if you do not road race your car, it's still good to have it. When it comes to cooling, I like extra assurance especially on a rx7 which is known to have cooling problems.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by rynberg
The coolers in CWC's kit may not be much physically bigger but they are better designed with more cooling rows than the stockers.
Also, the extra size of the coolers in Rotary Extreme's kit is pretty worthless without an aftermarket front end with large oil cooler openings. Chuck even states that on RE's website.
EDIT: As an aside, you only need upgraded oil coolers if you are running road racing events. They are entirely unnecessary for street driving.
The coolers in CWC's kit may not be much physically bigger but they are better designed with more cooling rows than the stockers.
Also, the extra size of the coolers in Rotary Extreme's kit is pretty worthless without an aftermarket front end with large oil cooler openings. Chuck even states that on RE's website.
EDIT: As an aside, you only need upgraded oil coolers if you are running road racing events. They are entirely unnecessary for street driving.
11-19-03, 02:26 AM
#45
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The dual 25 row kit I have is very effective. My customer has the oil temp gauge to monitor the oil temp so it's not just some wild guess. You can PM him and ask him about his experience. His forum name is Tgriesel.
I don't know how CWR determines the 25 row or the 34 row will not do anything better than the 19 row but a 19 row will do better than stock. I can't seem to understand the logic behind this. Unless they can prove their dual 19 row oil cooler kit are so effective that oil temp stays at the thermostat opening temp of 180F, a bigger oil cooler will improve cooling. Any of the CWR oil cooler kit users have some data to share?
The same logic applies to water cooling. If your radiator is effective enough to keep the water temp at 85C (thermostat opening temp), a bigger radiator will not do better but if your water temp is above that, a bigger radiator will help cooling.
As far as ducting goes, there are too many bumpers out there and there is not an universal duct that will fit all of them. My oil cooler kit has the oil cooler sitting very closely to the opening and besdies that, the cooler are wider than stock. Air pretty much has no where to go but through the oil coolers. If you really want some ducting, you can make some yourself with some aluminum sheet metal.
Chuck Huang
I don't know how CWR determines the 25 row or the 34 row will not do anything better than the 19 row but a 19 row will do better than stock. I can't seem to understand the logic behind this. Unless they can prove their dual 19 row oil cooler kit are so effective that oil temp stays at the thermostat opening temp of 180F, a bigger oil cooler will improve cooling. Any of the CWR oil cooler kit users have some data to share?
The same logic applies to water cooling. If your radiator is effective enough to keep the water temp at 85C (thermostat opening temp), a bigger radiator will not do better but if your water temp is above that, a bigger radiator will help cooling.
As far as ducting goes, there are too many bumpers out there and there is not an universal duct that will fit all of them. My oil cooler kit has the oil cooler sitting very closely to the opening and besdies that, the cooler are wider than stock. Air pretty much has no where to go but through the oil coolers. If you really want some ducting, you can make some yourself with some aluminum sheet metal.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by CrispyRX7
Just one word of "advice" big coolers are wholey ineffective without sealed ductwork. PERIOD. Without ducts they are merely big heat sinks and once saturated they are done. And no a cooler with 5 times the surface area will not give you five times the cooling.
Airflow across the upper region of a large cooler will be much reduced (even if ducted). See a trend here? Ducting is everything and for me the primary reason I went with the CWR setup and NOT those sold by Rotary Extreme. As for assmebling a "kit" on your own yeah sure if can be done...jusy look at the pic of the parts on my website and you can see pretty much everything needed but how much time will you spend developing ducts...Oops did I say the "D" word again? To me the ducts were worth the extra cost over simply procuring
the parts myself. If you are good with FRP then have at it. As for the side vents in the car...might be useful for venting engine bay heat if new ducting is fabbed but for the oil coolers nah...I don't think they do much at all.
Crispy
Just one word of "advice" big coolers are wholey ineffective without sealed ductwork. PERIOD. Without ducts they are merely big heat sinks and once saturated they are done. And no a cooler with 5 times the surface area will not give you five times the cooling.
Airflow across the upper region of a large cooler will be much reduced (even if ducted). See a trend here? Ducting is everything and for me the primary reason I went with the CWR setup and NOT those sold by Rotary Extreme. As for assmebling a "kit" on your own yeah sure if can be done...jusy look at the pic of the parts on my website and you can see pretty much everything needed but how much time will you spend developing ducts...Oops did I say the "D" word again? To me the ducts were worth the extra cost over simply procuring
the parts myself. If you are good with FRP then have at it. As for the side vents in the car...might be useful for venting engine bay heat if new ducting is fabbed but for the oil coolers nah...I don't think they do much at all.
Crispy
Last edited by rotaryextreme; 11-19-03 at 02:31 AM.
11-19-03, 08:28 AM
#46
Chuck,
Emperical data from my car. I use the ducted CWR 19 row coolers with a OE front end. On the *street* my oil temps sit pretty much dead on the tstat opening temperature - ALWAYS. There is no question the 25 row coolers are effective. Is it better or cost effective upgrade for the street to go even bigger? IMO questionable as the tstat is already governing the temp it is obvious the coolers are already "oversized." Will 25 or 30+ row cooolers be better for the track? Possibly yes. But ONLY if ducted to force the air through the cooler. No matter how close to the nose they are located if you have ANY gaps you're loosing airflow through the cooler reducing it's effectiveness. The ducts are the key. No ducts and the bigger coolers aren't really worth it. .....IMO of course
I do however sympathize with the issue of providing ducts for all the aftermarket noses.
Rotormotor,
You did the same math I did. When you consider the assembly of the hoses and fabricationof the ducts, to me the $200 "premium" for the CWR kit was worth every penny. Plus I got to put more *functional* CF on my car
Regards,
Crispy
Emperical data from my car. I use the ducted CWR 19 row coolers with a OE front end. On the *street* my oil temps sit pretty much dead on the tstat opening temperature - ALWAYS. There is no question the 25 row coolers are effective. Is it better or cost effective upgrade for the street to go even bigger? IMO questionable as the tstat is already governing the temp it is obvious the coolers are already "oversized." Will 25 or 30+ row cooolers be better for the track? Possibly yes. But ONLY if ducted to force the air through the cooler. No matter how close to the nose they are located if you have ANY gaps you're loosing airflow through the cooler reducing it's effectiveness. The ducts are the key. No ducts and the bigger coolers aren't really worth it. .....IMO of course
I do however sympathize with the issue of providing ducts for all the aftermarket noses.
Rotormotor,
You did the same math I did. When you consider the assembly of the hoses and fabricationof the ducts, to me the $200 "premium" for the CWR kit was worth every penny. Plus I got to put more *functional* CF on my car
Regards,
Crispy
11-19-03, 09:55 AM
#47
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Originally posted by clayne
Sure, but the condition is that at the same time you've got to do an equally productive write-up and then we'll both share in front of class.
Sure, but the condition is that at the same time you've got to do an equally productive write-up and then we'll both share in front of class.
All I am saying is that no one likes it when an idea is waved in front of there face and then not given to them.
A good working do-it-yourself oil cooling system would help a lot of fellow rx owners. It is too late for me becasue I already have one installed.
Both Chuck and Dwane have very nice systems. I have purchased items from both of them and they have been great to deal with and either one can provide you with a suitable ready to install oil cooler system.
I will PM you clayne.
Sincerely,
Jason C. Williams
11-19-03, 10:42 AM
#48
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Originally posted by rotaryextreme
Sorry my friend, I never stated the oil cooler kit won't be effective without an aftermarket front end.
Sorry my friend, I never stated the oil cooler kit won't be effective without an aftermarket front end.
"To take full advantage of the monster size oil cooler, an aftermarket bumper with larger openings for the oil cooler duct will be highly recommended. The best bumper that works with this oil cooler setup will be the Mazdaspeed GTC bumper."
I have seen the monster oil cooler setup on Tim's car. They are HUGE!