SanJoRX7

Just wondering what parts I should expect in a dual oil cooler kit (say, from rotary extreme or even mazda). I just need to know what I should be looking for so that I don't attempt the install without all of the parts in place (don't want to leave the car in pieces for weeks while I wait for the parts to show up).


Cheers,

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

check out CCW's dual oil cooler kit $900 but theyre huge!

SanJoRX7

eh, they're not that big...only 19 row. but looking at that pic, looks like a relatively extensive list of parts. I'll ID them and go from there.

FormerPorscheGuy

CWR (CWC) makes a great kit. Their coolers are bigger then the stock R1 coolers and offer enough capacity for anyone's needs. They sell the entire kit in one package that can be bolted up in one weekend.

Max Cooper did a nice write up on the kit and put it on his website.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

is cwr's kit the biggest one availible? i thought it was... i wonder how much cheaper it would be to just buy whatever coolers they use and get hoses/fittings our selves.

FormerPorscheGuy

I believe that Chuck at Rotary Extreme makes the biggest set on the market.

I looked into building my own but when I saw what was involved in building and engineering a system that would work reliably I decided to buy a kit. I didn't want to have my car down for weeks if not months at a time while I hunted down parts for my do it yourself oil coolers.

This is a major undertaking and purchasing an off the shelf kit saves a lot of time. I went with the CWR coolers because they were relatively inexpensive ($900) and came with everything that was needed to install.

I am not saying that a do it yourself kit is imposible or that there arn't people who are out there who have, but its a big project and it wasn't right for me.

Here is a link to Max's write up on the CWR kit.

http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/parts_i...lers/index.htm

SanJoRX7

It does appear that the RE kit is the largest available in a kit at the moment, however the CRW kit nearly doubles the combined size of the stock stuff (assuming r model...more if not). The prices are a bit steep for the RE kit, but the CWR is a bit more reasonable (but still not as cheap as doing it yourself).

Who knows, maybe someone will come up with a cheaper kit someday.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

wow those arent amuch bigger than the stockers???? might as well save 900 and get another stock one

rynberg

The coolers in CWC's kit may not be much physically bigger but they are better designed with more cooling rows than the stockers.

Also, the extra size of the coolers in Rotary Extreme's kit is pretty worthless without an aftermarket front end with large oil cooler openings. Chuck even states that on RE's website.

EDIT: As an aside, you only need upgraded oil coolers if you are running road racing events. They are entirely unnecessary for street driving.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

I agree with Rynberg, the coolers have more than twice the rows of fins. Would be a great improvement even for the person who does occational HPDE's.

Does anyone know how much oil capacity the CWR dual cooler system adds over the stock single cooler? This is a huge plus as well. More oil is a good thing.

SanJoRX7

Not sure of the actual add'l capacity this will add (I'd just ballpark it at about another 1.5-2 qts). Consider this, plus additional oil capacity via a different (bigger) oilpan, and/or some other means of adding another quart or two of oil to your system and pretty soon you're running a 6-7 quart system, which I can only imagine helps with heat dissipation and engine wear (more oil used for the same distance driving means less crap in each unit volume of oil)

I'm definitely looking forward to putting a dual cooler kit on, as well as some of the other things to increase the cooling capacity of this car.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

One idea is to put a Amsoil bypass filter kit on. (if it would work??) Gives you 2 additional quarts of oil plus the additional filtration. The oil pan is a good ideal as well. In reality, if the oil coolers give you 1-1.5 quarts additional capacity that is huge. I would stop there.

Link to amsoil bypass filters http://www.amsoil.com/products/bf.html

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

^ but when you change your oil remember that you are gonna end up with how ever much extra used oil in your system, as the stuff from the coolers doesnt get drained right?

also im planning on using a 99 spec bumper so it will have bigger openings but yeah... i see your point rynberg. maybe if you had a GTC front or something... but otherwise these are probably good. i dont have an extra $900 right now but would like a temporary dual setup for the 20b im building (im trying to cut a few corners temporarily till i can get it installed & running) and i have a stock single and, a large one from the mazda cosmo.... does anyone know if i would need to run an oil thermostat if i rig both up together? also, is the 2nd iol-cooler on the r1 the same as the 1st one (like if i have 2 oil coolers from 2 tourings, will it bolt up the same as an r1)? thanks guys! heath

rynberg

The thermostat for the coolers is mounted in the driver's side cooler (the coolers are connected serially, not parallel). You have to get a passenger side cooler, they are not the same part for both sides.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

That's right. The stock oil cooler holds .5 quarts of oil. I assume the CWR's hold like .75-1qt each. I'm going to e-mail them and ask the question.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

ok thakns, i think im gonna just ghetto-rig the cosmo one and touring one together.

wait... if theyre connected in serial then if you close the thermostat then you close off the whole system (maybe im confusing the terms...isnt this parallel:

0==0
| |
0==0
| |
| |

or this:
---0==0
|
---0==0





^ damn you forum!!! sorry its taking some of the spaces larger than 2 out.....

rynberg

Yes, that's the whole point of a thermostat....

They are connected serially. Oil enters the driver's side cooler when the t-stat reaches the temp range (180F, I think) and then flows into the passenger side cooler before looping back to the engine.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

wait.... rynberg.... which one is serial in my diagrams? (isnt #1 the correct way? i though that was called parallel? )

#1

0==0
\ . . |
0==0
|. . . |
|. . . |

#2

---0==0
. . . . . /
---0==0

/ = thermostat (please ignore the preiods)

rotary-tt

Here are all the part #'s for the stock R1/R2 coolers: http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_cooler.html

Coulthard Fan

I recently added the CWR dual oil cooler kit to my moneypit/FD (base model), and have been very pleased with it to date. Duane of CWR and I had some discussion about the RE 34-row kit AFTER I had purchased the CWR kit. He stated that based on their test data, 25 and 34 row kits are overkill for the FD. Not bad, just overkill.

Based on all the Corky Bell stuff I've read, the same pricipal applies to intercoolers, or any kind of heat exchanger for that matter. I'm sure Mazda knew that when they determined how big of an oil cooler(s), radiator, intercooler, brakes, etc. in the FD, and decided to put the smallest ones possible to reduce the weight of the car. (See Yamaguchi's book - they were fanatical about weight reduction.) Now the problem is we are taking these street cars to the track and running them on race rubber at high levels of boost... thus generating more heat than a stock RX7, and in conditions a street car would almost never see.

That said, you can still go too far in upgrading all these items (the heat exchangers) based on thermodynamic principles of efficiency. Going beyond that just adds weight.

p.s. Crispy has a nice write up of the CWR kit install on his site as well.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

The size of the coolers isn't the only issue. The CWR kit's are larger and more efficient, but they also come with tight-fitting carbon fiber ducts. The stock ones fit like ****, and Chucks RE kit, while the coolers are larger, have no ducts at all. We all no how much better aftermarket radiators work with proper sealed ducting, well, the same principal applies here.

FormerPorscheGuy

The CWR kit is a very nice kit and works well. I have no complaints.

Coulthard Fan

Peter is right about the importance of proper ducting of course. Let me tell you, the CWR carbon fiber ducts seal like a **** - I mean no air, or anything else, gets by them without going through the cores. This means leaves and anything else flying around... so I'd recommend some mesh grillework in front of the coolers. I should post a picture of mine at some point.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

i think im going to go with the CWR kit... from what everyone says its constructed very well. i have 2 questions though:

1. Has anyone running this kit seen any cooler temps after the install to back the claim that it "works well" (not trying to be an ***, just wondering if youve seen any differences after installing the kit)

2. why is it so expensive? i found the same MOCAL oil coolers on yahoo shopping for $130 each. i know the carbon fiber must be expensive to produce, and im not sure how much lines would be but $900 is alot of money...im a broke *** hoe that being said im probably gonna buy the kit

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Yes, guys have seen oil temps 10-20 degrees Celcius below those with dual R1 coolers on the track.. much more from a crappy old single stocker.... and i've observed lower and more consistent water temps on street and track as a result.

The fittings, lines, brackets, thermostat, ducts, and of course a little $$ for time and research to find and fit it all are what you're paying for... start adding up aeroquip fittings and such, and it gets expensive quickly. I squealed at the price too, but once it was on, i could see how worth it it was.