We can stop discussing the GT-R anytime....just make me a mod and I'll clear off more posts about it

 

You must mean GT-R. I thought you weren't a big GT3 fan and that a 350 rwhp FD could eat it alive, etc

How do GT-R and GT3 times compare at VIR?

 

Threads evolve and that's a good thing or we'd get bored to tears and I think we've said all we can say about the FD regarding how some people think 500 is too much power to handle and others feel that setup properly it's not........oh F it.......I'll go on to embellish further and say a 13b making 500 rwhp in the FD (and 50k in mods) would leave both the GTR and the ZR1 wondering what just flew by them at the ring. I never get tired of talking about FD greatness because the 7 can't loose

 

A 350 rwhp FD does eat it a live and that's already proven. However as I've said over and over again it comes at a price which is maint. and reliability where as the GT3 can do it with less work and I'm getting older and prefer to sit on my *** and type **** back and forth with you rather than work on my car

 

Another classic (bs) post

Proven wrong by Mosport lap times....even a stock class Cayman S beat wird's best time

 

The issue with a 500 rwhp 13b FD is getting power to the ground, and power over the rpm range. My opinion is a 20b is much better suited to the task because of the much broader spread of torque and power, although traction is still going to be an issue.

 

OOPS I should say my 350 rwhp FD with me driving beats the GT3 at VIR on the Grand E course with whatever hired magazine driver they have. I'll post up a vid the next time I'm on the track with any sort of cayman S race car. They are road blocks.

 

Wow again brilliant statement, the stuff you come up with is very intuitive and I must concur that a 20b would be superior. However like the ZR1 that makes 630 hp I think you are right and traction could be a problem so the driver may have to impliment some throttle control to avoid spinning the tires.

 

With some unknown yahoo driver at least....

 

Just summarizing the past discussion, no need to go wild with the sarcasm. Oh, and it's "implement"

 

Hopefully my next daily/track car will be a GTR. I think its a car that you could drive everyday and also take it to the track to have some fun with. Is it the 'Ultimate' car specifically for track? I don't think so.

Anyhow, back to 500 RWHP FD... I don't make 500 but maybe 300-350ish in sequential twins. I like my car as is and if I made 500, I would of totaled the car by now as the way I drive it, I couldn't control it and nor I have skills to handle that kind of power. Just being honest.

 

Oh snap you got me with the spelling, good job, oops sorry for the sarcasm here and there

 

I hear you I just can't justify spending that sort of change on a DD type car and also that sequential/non manual thing is so hard for me to let into my narrow mind.

I think a used m3 would be pretty fun as a DD and back up track car.

 

Fritz, I honestly think a M3 (at least a E46) would bore you on the track. It's probably the easiest car I've ever driven on a track (in fairly stock form). You have you really want to screw up to get that car out of sorts. It's a great back up track car if you just like flying around the track, but you see to be one who isn't enjoying it unless you are pushing the limits.

 

So by your logic my old 1800 lb Honda Civic should corner better than my 2800 lb FD?

 

Assuming similar chassis rigidity, absolutely. The Civic chassis is flexy pot metal (and the suspension and brakes are junk), so it's not a valid comparison.

I think more people used to these ponderous street cars need to spend some time in something like a KTM X-BOW or Atom so they can literally see the light....everything is relative, and you only know what you've experienced

 

Back on topic for a second: does anyone have a dyno graph for a 500 rwhp 13b vs. a 20b they can post? thanks

 

Does 500 RWHP make an FD more enjoyable to drive? Perhaps?

I’m a total FD nubie, (never driven an FD or owning) (but I'm not new to performance cars) I bought a non-running 25,000 mile car about 1 year ago. I am currently building a 500RWHP single turbo track car doing the required single turbo and track mods. I will have it out the coming summer. (Will be posting pics and such soon in the correct thread). I guess it's all what you want and what your perception of fun is.
Does 500 RWHP make an FD more enjoyable to drive? to me I think it will.

Fritz is correct, the GTR is a supercar just as the ZR1, just different in the "Supercar food chain" I'm fortunate to track a ZR1 here at Road America (big long fast track) and Fritz is spot on, the GTR cornering ability is amazing it just powers its way thru, where the ZR1 I have to exercise "traction control" with my right foot (all elctronics off) or I will just spin tires, with those Michelin PS2's. As the ZR1 is a "good bang for you buck" supercar so is the GTR, four seater cheaper than a ZR1 and torments the Big dollar SC's.
Anyway enough of the GTR I'm hoping the FD is as amazing track car as I’ve been hearing and reading about.

 

Yet the m600 costs 300k with borrwed powertrain parts and is basically a "kit" car.

And the GTR performs supercar numbers, with superb build quality, HAND BUILT engines and its not a supercar? Let alone a sports car?? And costs 100k?

LOLOL Is anyone getting this??

Doesnt matter where this thread goes. People reading this thread knows whats the deal.

Gmonsen explains it in real fashion. Fritz explains it from a neutral point of view with LOGICAL standpoints.

Thank god for these veteran members. My god thank god for them.

 

If that's what you call logic, then it's no wonder I missed it. Your definition of a sports car is so flawed it's laughable. In fact, let's break it down here

1) A sports car must be track ready

WTF does that mean? To what degree of track-readiness do you require? I could go drive a Camry around a race track all day long, does that make it track ready? Do you mean it must roll off the showroom floor and be competitive in a specific class of racing? Pretty silly qualification

2) A sports car must weigh under 3000lbs or it will not handle good

You never answered my previous question in regards to this. What happens at the 3000 pound marker that makes cars unable to corner? Why not 2800? Why not 3200? Hell, why not 2000? The original GT40 had a curb weight of 2000 pounds, so why not say that anything over 2200 lbs handles bad and should not be considered a sports car? Please, I would love to hear your explanation for this.

3) A sports car must have a lb/hp ratio close to a F1 car

Again, why? What is it about lb/hp that determines the sportiness of a car? The Veyron meets this criterion, but it's definitely not a sports car. Why pick an F1 car over the dozens of other more closely related forms of race cars? Exactly how close to the F1's power/weight ratio must it be?

Also, I find it funny that you expect a sports car to have the power/weight ratio similar to an F1 car, but without any electronic aids. Guess what? F1 cars have some of the most sophisticated electronic and mechanical driver aids ever invented. I guess that means even a modern F1 car couldn't qualify as a sports car.

 

In your opinion, then again, who the heck are you?

There isn't a precise definition of this, but succinctly - able to withstand the rigors of the track and designed for racing, with a spartan interior and a goal of drastically reducing weight. The Camry stuff is moronic, and at this point I'm going to blow off further dumb posts from you like this one.

This isn't what I said - strawman/mis-quoted arguments are the domain of hacks. Weight reduction pays huge dividends in every aspect of track performance - acceleration, braking, handling - I don't need to explain this

Again, not what I said at all, and it's very frustrating when hacks butcher a post to make a strawman counter-argument. The ratio I calculated was actually about double an F1 car, comparing performance to a high performance street bike.

This is a stupid example because the Veyron is obviously an extreme high hp GT car which in no way is designed for the track.

Never said that either. It's clear you're trying to make up my imaginary arguments and then try to knock them down. Your post utterly fails.

 

Ok, enough drooling about GT-Rs by the usual suspects (who will never own one anyway). No one ever said the GT-R wasn't a great car, I said that about 10 pages ago when the wird said it felt slow and he could murder them at Mosport with his FD. The GT-R fanbois can take a powder, thanks.

I'd like to see this one more time, though
http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/bra...-vs-noble-m600

 

I was thinking about the e90 which I think is also a fairly tame animal. Maybe I should get a viper and really learn how to control some power but I'd probably pee my pants when the engine started.

 

LOL Exactly.

The fact that he thinks whatever so and so cars doesnt comply with HIS DEFINITION of a sports car, its not a sports car. LOL

You cant get any more ready for the track with a GTR. I dont need to list its capabilities, im sure everyone knows this by now. It can go to autox, circuit, the strip, to walmart and through snow in factory form lol.


The GTR handles better than some of the TRUE sports car under 3000lbs. For 3800lbs, it handles exceptionally well.

But tell his theory to ferrari and lamborghini, they'll laugh at his face.


Dont bother man, this is one of his aimless attempts at trying to make his weak argument favor his side. First he wants to compare it to street cars, then kit cars and now to F1 cars?? Soon we're gonna be talking about airplanes and trains.




Again, on point.

F1 is a multi MILLION dollar motorsport. F1 features some of the most advanced technical electronic devices ever to put on a car. MOst of the street cars NOW are from F1 BACK THEN.

I forgot to point this out but this asshat said electronics wont save you from physics or something??

LOLOL tell that to benz, bmw, ferrari, lexus, porsche and basically every other manufacturer that has stability control LOL

Seriously. OP needs to lay off the drugs. That **** is really bad for you.

 

Cool vid, top gear is the best. However I'm not going to own one of those either but I really might own a GT3 if all things in my solar system align perfectly that just might, could maybe, possibly happen.

Now back to the 350 rwhp FD that I drive. I think a good driver in a GTR with just track pads and hoos would kick my *** or the wirds but throw any kind of cayman, or boxster with a stock NA engine at me and I'll MURDER IT