dubulup

So far the "Team" (rotor community) has been great helping me with the NS conversion. As an update, my car is running now but not perfect. I'm not getting any CEL codes, so I don't believe I'm in limp mode (maybe I am if it's possible to be in limp mode and not have any codes...plugged resisters in, and T'd the OMP lines with the bottom nipple of the WG SV and ran it down to the turbo inlet), but I can NOT build any boost (haven't pushed WOT, but when I got into higher rpms (over 4k) the car fell on it's face once vacuum led into 0 psi of boost, only tried it once since it didn't feel good). Can't build boost in neutral reving either (used to get 4psi). I don't want to think the worst...my twin were damaged on the trip home from Pettit. They were in for a rough ride...I was clued in when the front turbo was poking his head out the box I can't post the pic for some reason, (I'll email it to someone if they would like to post it for me, Mahjik seems to be a pretty helpful mod). I need to know if there is a test to see if the secondary injectors are firing. The shop manual says to use a sound scope or a screwdriver??? so if someone could clue me in, that'd be great. (don't really think that's the problem, but can't rule it out yet.) Another thing I've noticed is how hot the turbo side of the bay gets now and how fast it heats up (Pettit ceramic coated exh. manifold and turbo housings so I thought it should be cooler). Don't beleive its an exhaust leak...doesn't smell like exhaust. The UIM and efini crossover pipe get really hot also, which leads me to believe its a turbo related problem. I have a diagram of the vacuum lines I've kept along with the AP, a couple members have already looked at it and confirmed that it looks right (thanks guys, lerch, spyfish007). IF the twins internals were damaged in transit who would be at fault, UPS for being idiots with a box label FRAGILE or Pettit for not packing it right (Cam told me they usually pack them in small box then a larger one, and didn't know why mine wasn't done that way? Or am "I" screwed? The PFS PMC is set for a single turbo and the car drives fine under normal driving...except the heat on the turbo side. No coolant problems or overheating and no codes??? I did pull the inlets off the turbo and the compressor wheels do spin, so they are not seized. Any advice or suggestions would be great. Sorry for the length, but I'm at a loss...did the ATF trick (what a site!!! have a video of it too), engine was flooded, and the O2 is unplugged, and was unplugged before the NS conversion due to killer 3k hesitation and ran fine. TIA Carson

Mr.Mancho_Camoncho

sounds like your in limp mode!!! Did you use resistors? And did you wrap them in E-tape?


-Mancho

dubulup

Yes I did, and Yes I did.

The ECU isn't throwing any codes, so is it possible I'm in limp mode. I know my post was long, but did you read the whole thing?


*edit* I can't hear the twins spooling either...another finger pointed towards internal problem.

Mr.Mancho_Camoncho

I dont think it would be your injectors. Try going thru all your connections and check your OMP connector and stuff like that,

-Mancho

paw140

When I was in limp mode, I could hear my turbos spool up, but the car would die out if you gave it much throttle. Based on that, and the fact that you don't have any CEL codes, I don't think you are in limp mode.

I take it you had the turbos rebuilt by Pettit? And the compressor wheels spin.... so I'm thinking you might have a clogged cat. I don't see a midpipe in your mod list. This would explain the lack of boost and the extreme heat in the turbo region. Any thoughts?

paw140

As far as testing the secondary injectors with a stethescope or a screwdriver, here's what you do. (I have never done this but I am familiar with the procedure). Take a screwdriver and place the metal tip on the injector, or as close to it as you can. Place the other end against your ear and you should be able to hear the injector fire. You can do the same thing with a mechanic's stethescope.

The thing is, I don't think there is any access to the injectors with the UIM and all that other garbage bolted onto the engine.

dubulup

Thanks for clearing that up. I can get to the front sec inj with the UIM on, so do I need to have someone in the car reving past 3k (or the spec value of when the sec injectors fire)??? I guess I could just manually do it with the throttle cable, but then I wouldn't know what RPM I was reaching (I guess just keep reving until I hear it or run out of rpms)???

I was thinking clogged cat also, but as far as not hearing the turbo spooling...I ruled that out and the car drives fine at low rpms??? edit*(would a clogged cat not let turbo spool?) If that matters I don't know.
The work Pettit did, was ceramic coating, porting and blueprinting (replace coolant and oil lines)...not rebuilding. Twins were fine before the work (50k miles).

And I've re-check my connections plenty on times.

paw140

If your cat is clogged, you won't have the necessary exhaust flow to spool the turbos and you won't build good boost. It may drive fine at low rpms because there is sufficient flow through the cats, but when you increase rpms and airflow, the exhaust has no where to go. I could be wrong, but I think that may be your problem. Since Pettit had your turbos and they worked fine before, they should be fine now. I don't see how the internals could get damaged during shipping.

The secondary injector thing... I would just play around with the throttle and try to get them to fire. I've never done any work like that, but you should be able to figure something out.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

dubulup

Thanks again Paw.

I'm looking into a HF cat, now.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

have you actually pulled codes out of it? or just looking for the ce light? there are codes that do NOT turn on the light and will set a limp home

mike

dubulup

Looking for the CEL.

Same procedure as pulling CEL codes?

paw140

Wait a sec... are you saying that the CEL is not lighting up, but you haven't actually pulled the codes? You need to jump the GRD and TEN terminals in the diagnostic box near the battery then turn the key 'on' and the codes will flash on the CEL.

Some codes will not light up the CEL.

dubulup

That's something new to me. I thought I was in the clear if the CEL didn't light up...and I thought I wasn't a newbie anymore...Thanks guys, I'm sure I'll have tons of questions and updates tomorrow.

Once again I must add how impressed I am with the rotary community!!! I was interviewed over the weekend about my 'custom sports car' (advertising/marketing deptment for a performance car parts manufacturer(they couldn't tell me which one)) and I talked this community up tons and tons. And as a side note they were really impressed with the car...and having just talked to a guy with a Ferrari...that's a big compliment!

Go TEAM!!!

dubulup

I pulled codes 125, e^x, and 6A (in hex of course)

Just playin' guys (I know you hate the !!!),
I had code 15, which I knew about; plugged the O2 sensor back in and it went away, and I had code 12 (left front wheel speed sensor) with the ABS light, reset it and it never came back. It was from the last time I dyno tuned (didn't know ABS codes were non-volitale(sp?) and don't get reset with disconnected battery) So I guess that rules out limp mode.

So I've been shopping for a HF cat, the thing that I keep reading is, some HF's you have to plumb the air-pump yourself??? Someone care to enlighten me.

paw140

Before you spend the money on a HF cat, you may want to try unbolting the dp from the cat and then drive the car and see how it runs. It will be really loud, but you should be able to tell if that's your problem. Of course you don't want to go crazy with the throttle with no exhaust system hooked up, as you would run the risk of blowing your engine.

It's my understanding that on some cats you need to have an airpump pipe connection piece welded on, and some you don't even need an airpump. I don't really know the details though.

dubulup

I was thinking I should pull the cat off and drive around (how right you are about the $$$ for the HF...probably should get one regardless, but get the car up to par first), but didn't know how bad it could be for the engine...of course I wouldn't go WOT, but building a little boost to see if the twins spool is okay right?

Thanks for the advice.

paw140

Just keep an eye on your boost. It shouldn't take you long to figure out if the cat is your problem when you're driving it.

dubulup

Well Paw (and others), here's the morning update...

I pulled the cat off (well I couldn't get it off the rubber hanging thing (technical term)) MAN, was it loud when I started it up! Crazy seeing a small car make THAT much noise. It made me intimidated to drive it like that (couldn't because the cat was still hangin' on).

Is there a trick to get the cat off the rubber thing or the rubber thing off the car...and the cat seemed to be stuck to my cat-back...

The throttle response without the cat attached was unbelieveable! Pulling a steady 18 Hg/in @ 1250 rpm idle or so...I couldn't push myself to rev it high enough to see If I could build boost...it was entirely too loud. and seemed VERY POWERFUL!!!

I live in a neighbor in the city so driving like that would probably attract way too much attention...not that starting it didn't...

As far as HF cats go...I do need one since the only two restricting air/exhaust paths on my car are the IC (already in planning/budget) and the cat...another note, could the ATF trick have clogged my cat? Because I wasn't having any problems before building boost - before the twins took a trip to Florida - I know the cat is like 8 years old with 50k miles, but what could cause it to get clogged while not being used??? Finger pointing at twins again ->

Any other suggestions? Anyone? I've searched and symptons look like a clogged cat...other than the fact that it wasn't clogged before I took the car apart. (maybe it was, but not to the restricting point and sitting and the ATF clogged it...but the ATF smoke screen didn't seem to think the cat was clogged...I'll try and get the video up)

Thanks for all your thoughts Paw.

paw140

I usually use a flathead screwdriver to separate the exhaust from the rubber hangers (yeah, it's kind of a bitch). I had the same concerns about your cat that you have. I don't understand how it could clog up from just sitting. Maybe the ATF did clog it up? Strange... Buy the HF! I'm sure you'll like it.

dubulup

Spend money now on HF...determine boost problem later??? Maybe not the best logic to approach a solution...but it'll tell me if the cat was clogged and get me closer to my goal -> bulletproof.

paw140

You're right. Take off the cat and make sure that it is your problem before buying the HF.

dubulup

Driving around with just DP and building boost scares me! It shouldn't take much throttle right and how much boost should I look for? 1 or 2psi?? Because I'm getting a solid 0psi and felt like a fuel cut or its gettng bogged down with fuel. I'll have to find a good time to do this because...OMG it's LOUD!

paw140

I know how you feel... you don't have a friend that has a spare midpipe or something, do you? Driving with just a downpipe is not really smart, but I can't think of another way to test it. Maybe once you get the cat completely off the car, you can take a look inside and see if it's clogged? I'm not really sure if you can tell that way, though.

Just pull it out of your driveway, drive it down the road a few hundred feet and give it some gas and watch the boost. You really don't have to go far to tell if it's fixed, since you got zero boost before.

Maybe someone who has tested for a bad cat before can chime in?

Another option, if you were going to buy a HF anyway, is to wait until you get it, put it in, and then road test it.

paw140

When you say the car falls 'flat on it's face' about 4000 rpms, does it pop and backfire, or does it just have no power?

dubulup

Lack of power, as in it stumbles so hard I'm almost thrown forward..."falls on it's face" (not fun) I would imagine it feels like a fuel cut.