David Hayes’ End of 3 Rotor Build, Rebuild, And Rebuild: A Reflection
02-02-12, 07:36 AM
#76
Thanks for the responses guys. I will continue with the posts. Am in NYC this week for my birthday so it will be next week before the next installment.
To answer Flybye's questions:
This is all true. I think when you are in the beginning of the build, it's like a honeymoon where you are okay with things starting to slip and gong wrong as you think everything will turn out just fine. And then when it starts turning south, you keep hoping things will straighten out and get better. What's the saying, "The definition of idiocy is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result"? Well, that is how it is with what I went through. I should have known sooner when to pull the plug on a shop and take the car elsewhere.
With my Pettit experience, they did a great job on my 2 rotor and I knew Cam so I thought I had made the right choice. I think personal issues at the time caused Cam and Pettit to not come through for me on the 3 rotor build. Cam told me he personally put together and tested all of his 3 rotor builds, but when I uncovered the issues with his engine, he told me my car was the only 3 rotor build he didn't do and he blamed the build on a person that no longer worked there. Hmm, not comforting. Two hurricanes also hit Pettit while my car was there which I think also created much financial strain on the company, contributing to what I think was a sloppy build.
Yep, showing my age for sure but I think it's pretty cool to be the only owner of the car. That's why I know when things get swapped out or changed without my knowledge which has happened more than once during a build. The most curious thing on the car is several times the screws holding on the interior tunnel cover have been taken off, even when that area should not be touched at all. It's now one of the first things I check when getting the car back and I've got a bag of stock screws handy to put it back together.
My feeling is Cam is much less involved than he used to be which has caused the shop's quality to suffer. Cam is not a business person, he's a really good mechanic. So, when he grew the shop I personally don't think he knew how to expand and keep the quality consistent. Just my 2 cents though.
It was a company called Tempus Software. It did front-end healthcare stuff like appointment scheduling, medical compliancey, and other boring but necessary things. Think the Expedia or Travelocity of healthcare. Grew it off my kitchen table to become an $8.5 million per year company and sold it to QuadraMed Corporation (larger vendor) which has since gone back to being a private equity firm backed company.
Major learning experience for me but I would do it all over again. Realized you can't know it all so you have to surround yourself with persons that have different skills than you do. Became pretty good at setting a unique vision and rallying others around that vision to achieve sucess.
To answer Flybye's questions:
1) Let me just say you deserve 1,000 trophies for sticking in there with the little Wankel. I'm sure you had probably reconsidered the GT2 at one point, but then realized everything that has occurred is due to unreadability with the shops themselves and not just bad luck with the motor itself. I mean who would have imagined Pettit doing a **** job with the motor?
With my Pettit experience, they did a great job on my 2 rotor and I knew Cam so I thought I had made the right choice. I think personal issues at the time caused Cam and Pettit to not come through for me on the 3 rotor build. Cam told me he personally put together and tested all of his 3 rotor builds, but when I uncovered the issues with his engine, he told me my car was the only 3 rotor build he didn't do and he blamed the build on a person that no longer worked there. Hmm, not comforting. Two hurricanes also hit Pettit while my car was there which I think also created much financial strain on the company, contributing to what I think was a sloppy build.
2) You deserve another trophy for being the original owner. God I wish I could say that but I was fresh out of high school.
3) Have other stories like this popped up from Pettit? What the heck happened to them?
4) What was the software company you sold? If ya don't mind me asking. 
Major learning experience for me but I would do it all over again. Realized you can't know it all so you have to surround yourself with persons that have different skills than you do. Became pretty good at setting a unique vision and rallying others around that vision to achieve sucess.
02-03-12, 03:45 PM
#79
Gonna take care of that soon John. The car was not meant to sit around as it has the last few years. It's supposed to be my daily driver and I want to track it - not drag stuff but track. There are weekly autocross events here in Asheville and I'm going to participate in those to learn how to drive better. It also appears my first "real" event will be VIR in a few months. I've got an offer from a fellow club member who is an instructor to go up with me and teach me how to drive. He thinks we can hit 170 PMH on the straightaway which would be crazy.
What I can post up though about the BBK is my driving experiences here in the mountains. I'll do that soon in the suspension installment. The short answer is the brakes work great and have saved me more than a few times from bad things (read going over the side of the mountain).
What I can post up though about the BBK is my driving experiences here in the mountains. I'll do that soon in the suspension installment. The short answer is the brakes work great and have saved me more than a few times from bad things (read going over the side of the mountain).
02-03-12, 04:46 PM
#81
In NYC midtown. Been here for the week celebrating my birthday with my beautiful wife. Love the city and we try to get up here a few times a year. Did the tourist thing yesterday and ended up front row center on David Letterman. It was a blast.
02-03-12, 04:54 PM
#82
Gonna take care of that soon John. The car was not meant to sit around as it has the last few years. It's supposed to be my daily driver and I want to track it - not drag stuff but track. There are weekly autocross events here in Asheville and I'm going to participate in those to learn how to drive better. It also appears my first "real" event will be VIR in a few months. I've got an offer from a fellow club member who is an instructor to go up with me and teach me how to drive. He thinks we can hit 170 PMH on the straightaway which would be crazy.
What I can post up though about the BBK is my driving experiences here in the mountains. I'll do that soon in the suspension installment. The short answer is the brakes work great and have saved me more than a few times from bad things (read going over the side of the mountain).
What I can post up though about the BBK is my driving experiences here in the mountains. I'll do that soon in the suspension installment. The short answer is the brakes work great and have saved me more than a few times from bad things (read going over the side of the mountain).
02-03-12, 05:07 PM
#83
also dont just stay in manhattan- go explore brooklyn and queens... Just keep away from the bronx its still kinda funny there lolol.
02-03-12, 11:18 PM
#85
Trip ends tomorrow - so sad. Had a great time and went all over. We always try to get out to different areas and have been most everywhere in our many trips. Great city for those that have. It been here.
RCCAZ - I never let the tank go low. Have done this since the car was new. Def more important now.
RRRX7 - I will miss you in NYC but come on back down to DGRR and well take it back out for a spin. It's drivability has improved with the new tune.
RCCAZ - I never let the tank go low. Have done this since the car was new. Def more important now.
RRRX7 - I will miss you in NYC but come on back down to DGRR and well take it back out for a spin. It's drivability has improved with the new tune.
02-04-12, 03:10 PM
#86
David,
Having driven your car , and also having first hand knowledge on what a well sorted rotary is supposed to be from personal and professional experience. I can say without a doubt that your car is by far the most well developed project I have ever had the privilege of driving. I can only hope that my car can someday come close in comparison to yours.
Chris
Having driven your car , and also having first hand knowledge on what a well sorted rotary is supposed to be from personal and professional experience. I can say without a doubt that your car is by far the most well developed project I have ever had the privilege of driving. I can only hope that my car can someday come close in comparison to yours.
Chris
02-11-12, 10:58 AM
#87
Engine Management & Electronics
Engine Management & Electronics
A bit of a short installment. The list:
• Microtech LTX-12s engine management system
• Microtech wiring harness
• MSD Blaster SS coils
• Xcessive Amperage 200 amp custom alternator
• XS Power AGM battery and custom tie-down
• Sun Automotive Hyper Ground System
• Greddy Profec B SPEC2 boost controller
• PLX Devices DM-100 IMFD display modules
• PLX Devices wideband AFR, Boost/Vacuum, AIT, EGT, Oil Pressure, and Water and Oil Temp sensor modules
The bottom line here is to ensure your engine management and electronics choices properly support your levels of modifications. In others words, make sure all that hard work is not wasted and nothing blows up. Think through your goals with your modifications and then lay out a plan to achieve these objectives. You’ll need a well running car and then you’ll need to be able to monitor performance for reliability. It’s good to know before you blow up something when things are starting to go wrong.
For a 3-rotor conversion, you’ll need an engine management system that supports the 20B. There are several good options out there and all have been used with success. Motec, Microtech, Haltech, Wolf, and Electromotive all support the 20B.
So which one to select? As I have had three different units on my car (Wolf, Haltech, and Microtech) my advice is to go with the one that your tuner recommends. He’s ultimately responsible for getting your car running properly and you don’t want any issues if something goes wrong with the install or tuning. Stick with his pick and things will work out for the better.
If you read thru my earlier posts, you’ll know I had three different tuners working on the car, which is why I ended up with three different ECUs. For me the easiest unit to personally use was the Wolf 3D EMS (http://wolfems.cart.net.au/cat/3754.html). I could actually work the system and do some fine-tuning. It was extremely user friendly and feature rich. Unfortunately, there aren’t many Wolf tuners here in the US and mine went AWOL so off the Wolf went.
I’d say the Haltech has the largest community support and the Platinum 2000 looks pretty sweet (http://www.haltech.com/index.php/pro...num-sport-2000). It has some extremely nice features including support for the OMP.
Which brings me to the Microtech LTX-12S, the current EMS on the car. It’s the ECU of choice by Kilo Racing, which is why I’m using it now. Kilo has had some great success with Microtech on his cars so it’s the brand he recommends. Works just fine for me. Now for the however – If I could avoid Microtech I would. They have virtually no customer support and I would be screwed if I didn’t know Kilo or Steve Osley. Microtech has to one of the least end-user intuitive systems I’ve seen. Although Kilo has shown me a few times how to change parameters, I still don’t get it. I don’t want a system that requires the use of numerous “F” key hits and then “arrow up and downs”. Gove me something easy to use and I’ll be happy but Microtech is most certainly not it.
Fun Fact – I knew Microtech does not support the OMP but I also knew my car used the OMP and Kilo did not recommend I premix. So how is this possible? Kilo modifies the OMP to inject a higher level of oil. He essentially turns the OMP into a one level unit; one that he feels provides adequate oiling throughout the RPM and load band. Pretty cool but I'm glad I'm **** and also premix for safety!
So what else is needed on the electrical side? As I covered in the previous installment, you’ll need an upgraded fuel system and I highly recommend a water/meth injection system for safety and to keep the engine cool. You’ll also need to control boost and there are many options for this as well. For me, the simple to use Greddy Profec B SPEC2 unit has worked very well. Controls boost like a champ and we’ve even used the unit to “bleed in” the turbo so the punch of it coming on is not so severe and more controllable.
So provided you have the engine running well, how do you now monitor it? With gauges of course! The FD stock units won’t be good enough so you’ll need to add in additional monitoring devices to ensure the health of your car. There are two routes to take – 1) you can add in a bevy of gauges and fit them in where you can (read the pillar, in pods on the center speaker, above your steering column, or in other custom locations), or 2) limit the number of gauges you install but still have complete control.
To control the number of gauges I needed and to keep as much of a stock look as possible, I opted for option two and installed two PLX 100 units (http://plxdevices.com/gauges.php) that control and display the following parameters:
- Boost
- Vacuum
- AFR
- Water temp
- Oil temp
- Oil pressure
- EGTs
- AITs
For a detailed review on the PLX units, see: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=plx
I really like these units. They’re digital and fast reacting and can be configured in numerous ways. Looks like they now have a new display module (DM-6) that I need to check out ☺
Although I monitor 8 different parameters, for me, the “must have” measurements are AFR, Boost, and Water temps. I constantly look at these and the other values are great but not needed on a daily basis. And a final negative note on the PLX AIT sensor – it doesn’t work so don’t get it. Seems to pick up electrical interference from the other sensors and it reads wrong. So in essence, mine is a $125 paper weight ☹
Future Dream Plans
If I could, I’d put in a widescreen double din head unit that would be PC and Windows-based. I’d have this linked into my Microtech ECU and all of my sensors to display from the head unit my parameters much like a Nissan GTR. And since money is no object (remember this is a dream) I’d rip put my guage cluster and put in an OLED thin film display: http://www.oled-info.com/oled-cars
Next Installment: Exterior
A bit of a short installment. The list:
• Microtech LTX-12s engine management system
• Microtech wiring harness
• MSD Blaster SS coils
• Xcessive Amperage 200 amp custom alternator
• XS Power AGM battery and custom tie-down
• Sun Automotive Hyper Ground System
• Greddy Profec B SPEC2 boost controller
• PLX Devices DM-100 IMFD display modules
• PLX Devices wideband AFR, Boost/Vacuum, AIT, EGT, Oil Pressure, and Water and Oil Temp sensor modules
The bottom line here is to ensure your engine management and electronics choices properly support your levels of modifications. In others words, make sure all that hard work is not wasted and nothing blows up. Think through your goals with your modifications and then lay out a plan to achieve these objectives. You’ll need a well running car and then you’ll need to be able to monitor performance for reliability. It’s good to know before you blow up something when things are starting to go wrong.
For a 3-rotor conversion, you’ll need an engine management system that supports the 20B. There are several good options out there and all have been used with success. Motec, Microtech, Haltech, Wolf, and Electromotive all support the 20B.
So which one to select? As I have had three different units on my car (Wolf, Haltech, and Microtech) my advice is to go with the one that your tuner recommends. He’s ultimately responsible for getting your car running properly and you don’t want any issues if something goes wrong with the install or tuning. Stick with his pick and things will work out for the better.
If you read thru my earlier posts, you’ll know I had three different tuners working on the car, which is why I ended up with three different ECUs. For me the easiest unit to personally use was the Wolf 3D EMS (http://wolfems.cart.net.au/cat/3754.html). I could actually work the system and do some fine-tuning. It was extremely user friendly and feature rich. Unfortunately, there aren’t many Wolf tuners here in the US and mine went AWOL so off the Wolf went.
I’d say the Haltech has the largest community support and the Platinum 2000 looks pretty sweet (http://www.haltech.com/index.php/pro...num-sport-2000). It has some extremely nice features including support for the OMP.
Which brings me to the Microtech LTX-12S, the current EMS on the car. It’s the ECU of choice by Kilo Racing, which is why I’m using it now. Kilo has had some great success with Microtech on his cars so it’s the brand he recommends. Works just fine for me. Now for the however – If I could avoid Microtech I would. They have virtually no customer support and I would be screwed if I didn’t know Kilo or Steve Osley. Microtech has to one of the least end-user intuitive systems I’ve seen. Although Kilo has shown me a few times how to change parameters, I still don’t get it. I don’t want a system that requires the use of numerous “F” key hits and then “arrow up and downs”. Gove me something easy to use and I’ll be happy but Microtech is most certainly not it.
Fun Fact – I knew Microtech does not support the OMP but I also knew my car used the OMP and Kilo did not recommend I premix. So how is this possible? Kilo modifies the OMP to inject a higher level of oil. He essentially turns the OMP into a one level unit; one that he feels provides adequate oiling throughout the RPM and load band. Pretty cool but I'm glad I'm **** and also premix for safety!
So what else is needed on the electrical side? As I covered in the previous installment, you’ll need an upgraded fuel system and I highly recommend a water/meth injection system for safety and to keep the engine cool. You’ll also need to control boost and there are many options for this as well. For me, the simple to use Greddy Profec B SPEC2 unit has worked very well. Controls boost like a champ and we’ve even used the unit to “bleed in” the turbo so the punch of it coming on is not so severe and more controllable.
So provided you have the engine running well, how do you now monitor it? With gauges of course! The FD stock units won’t be good enough so you’ll need to add in additional monitoring devices to ensure the health of your car. There are two routes to take – 1) you can add in a bevy of gauges and fit them in where you can (read the pillar, in pods on the center speaker, above your steering column, or in other custom locations), or 2) limit the number of gauges you install but still have complete control.
To control the number of gauges I needed and to keep as much of a stock look as possible, I opted for option two and installed two PLX 100 units (http://plxdevices.com/gauges.php) that control and display the following parameters:
- Boost
- Vacuum
- AFR
- Water temp
- Oil temp
- Oil pressure
- EGTs
- AITs
For a detailed review on the PLX units, see: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=plx
I really like these units. They’re digital and fast reacting and can be configured in numerous ways. Looks like they now have a new display module (DM-6) that I need to check out ☺
Although I monitor 8 different parameters, for me, the “must have” measurements are AFR, Boost, and Water temps. I constantly look at these and the other values are great but not needed on a daily basis. And a final negative note on the PLX AIT sensor – it doesn’t work so don’t get it. Seems to pick up electrical interference from the other sensors and it reads wrong. So in essence, mine is a $125 paper weight ☹
Future Dream Plans
If I could, I’d put in a widescreen double din head unit that would be PC and Windows-based. I’d have this linked into my Microtech ECU and all of my sensors to display from the head unit my parameters much like a Nissan GTR. And since money is no object (remember this is a dream) I’d rip put my guage cluster and put in an OLED thin film display: http://www.oled-info.com/oled-cars
Next Installment: Exterior
03-04-12, 07:03 AM
#92
^it's a Magnaflow 200 cell hi metallic flow cat. It's placed at the end of the mid pipe. Ideally you would put it near the front of the mid pipe bit I didn't have the room with the current setup. The rule of thumb is the closer to the front the better, but for higher HP cars, you have to be careful with putting the cat too close as the flow will melt them.
From my numerous discussions with the manufacturers of cats, the 200 cell is the best unit if you actually want to improve emissions. The 100 cell units flow slightly better but won't clean the air very much and the units above 200 cells start to cause back pressure.
Also, don't get the ceramic ones as they have a lower melting point than the metal ones. So far so good and no issues. Car is definitely much cleaner smelling than before.
From my numerous discussions with the manufacturers of cats, the 200 cell is the best unit if you actually want to improve emissions. The 100 cell units flow slightly better but won't clean the air very much and the units above 200 cells start to cause back pressure.
Also, don't get the ceramic ones as they have a lower melting point than the metal ones. So far so good and no issues. Car is definitely much cleaner smelling than before.
03-06-12, 05:33 PM
#94
Will do soon. Had too much stuff going on recently to write. FYI - the car is at Steve Osley's where he is installing a Carbonetic carbon 2 way LSD. They are now a sponsor for me and tell me the carbon diff is as quiet as an OEM one. We shall see
03-10-12, 07:18 AM
#98
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Thanks for the great info. I assume you have a 4" downpipe then reduces to 3" at the cat?
is it Magnaflow Part #59959? Or 59929(suppose to be high flowing)? Both look to be a very compact 3" Inlet & Outlet On-Center. I'm really suprised that it flows so well that you can put out that much power. Thanks again for the info, now I can put one of these on my 20B porsche.
is it Magnaflow Part #59959? Or 59929(suppose to be high flowing)? Both look to be a very compact 3" Inlet & Outlet On-Center. I'm really suprised that it flows so well that you can put out that much power. Thanks again for the info, now I can put one of these on my 20B porsche.
^it's a Magnaflow 200 cell hi metallic flow cat. It's placed at the end of the mid pipe. Ideally you would put it near the front of the mid pipe bit I didn't have the room with the current setup. The rule of thumb is the closer to the front the better, but for higher HP cars, you have to be careful with putting the cat too close as the flow will melt them.
From my numerous discussions with the manufacturers of cats, the 200 cell is the best unit if you actually want to improve emissions. The 100 cell units flow slightly better but won't clean the air very much and the units above 200 cells start to cause back pressure.
Also, don't get the ceramic ones as they have a lower melting point than the metal ones. So far so good and no issues. Car is definitely much cleaner smelling than before.
From my numerous discussions with the manufacturers of cats, the 200 cell is the best unit if you actually want to improve emissions. The 100 cell units flow slightly better but won't clean the air very much and the units above 200 cells start to cause back pressure.
Also, don't get the ceramic ones as they have a lower melting point than the metal ones. So far so good and no issues. Car is definitely much cleaner smelling than before.
03-10-12, 08:34 AM
#99
Thanks for the great info. I assume you have a 4" downpipe then reduces to 3" at the cat?
is it Magnaflow Part #59959? Or 59929(suppose to be high flowing)? Both look to be a very compact 3" Inlet & Outlet On-Center. I'm really suprised that it flows so well that you can put out that much power. Thanks again for the info, now I can put one of these on my 20B porsche.
is it Magnaflow Part #59959? Or 59929(suppose to be high flowing)? Both look to be a very compact 3" Inlet & Outlet On-Center. I'm really suprised that it flows so well that you can put out that much power. Thanks again for the info, now I can put one of these on my 20B porsche.
http://www.magnaflow.com/02catalytic...niversal=59959
This is a 200 cell unit that flows well enough for me to make 675 WHP so I think it's pretty good. We didn't test the car without the cat on so we don't know how much HP we lost but the 675 is not a problem.
The #59929 is a 3 inch unit so if you have a 3 inch exhaust, then go with it. They make pretty much any size up to 5 inches ID I think so just match the size to your exhaust diameter and you are good to go.
03-12-12, 02:23 PM
#100
^Well, scratch everything I said about the Magnaflow CATs. I can now say they don't work and this is only after a few hundred miles on them. They've basically melted into a big glob of goo 
Had a boost problem and after checking everything else from hoses, to the Greddy unit, to the Synapes waste gate, it turns out the CAT is melted and clogged. Not good.
Magnaflow told me they can withstand up to 1,400 F but this clearly is not the case as my car doesn't see above 1,150 F and that was enough to melt them.
Going back to the drawing board on this and am thinking maybe SMB?
Had a boost problem and after checking everything else from hoses, to the Greddy unit, to the Synapes waste gate, it turns out the CAT is melted and clogged. Not good.
Magnaflow told me they can withstand up to 1,400 F but this clearly is not the case as my car doesn't see above 1,150 F and that was enough to melt them.
Going back to the drawing board on this and am thinking maybe SMB?