Dave:

I get your point 100%, and no, I don't regard Consumer Reports as an authority on cars. Water heaters, yes, cars, no.

My nose is out of joint because Mazda produced a remarkable vehicle that could run circles (literally) around rivals costing 2 to 3 times as much. They did an amazing amount of things RIGHT with the FD3S.

Where has the passion gone? My only hope is that we'll see a NEW RX7 in another couple of years.
THAT would restore my faith, but I'll bet good money we'll get another SUV instead.

 

Man, you got the MBA thing going here. Good analysis. I like to think of the FD sales failure as a benefit to current owners. Poor sales = rare.

I would consider the 8 as a daily driver. I need to drive one before I comment much about the car. It would seem hard to match the personality that the 1st gen has, or the ***** to the wall fd. It will take some time for the 8 to evolve. I think that soon the 8 will get the upgrades were all looking for.

 

I actually thing frenetic is a good word for the FD... and complimentary even, in a "only for die-hard enthusiasts" sort of way.

 

I wouldn't say the passion has disappeared. Remember, passion doesn't pay the bills. The RX-7, for as good as it was, failed. Yes, I said it - failed. It took an enthusiast community to figure out what needed done to make the car more reliable and practical to compete in the sport/race car market. The FD was a bold move in development, and in this case 95% success didn't make the 3rd gen a success in the states.

I don't know who has the rotary passion at Mazda, or if the stockholders give a damn about it, but I certainly would never expect them to risk the US market on another RX-7 unless they were confident it would be reliable and a great seller. It would be irresponsible to try to market another RX-7 too soon or one that had any of the quirks the FD has.

Enter the RX-8. The rotary community certainly knows the difference between the cars, but there is also a market for a practical performance car. IT'S A DIFFERENT CLASS OF CAR. For as much as you hate the RX-8 it's got the makings of a great sport sedan. Mazda is marketing the 8 with the same spirit we saw on the 7. I haven't heard much feedback from owners yet, but it seems to be rekindling a lot of spirit here. That's were the passion needs to be. As much as we RX-7 owners think we're worth to Mazda, the number's don't add up. It will take sales of rotarys to people other than RX-7 owners to make the RX-8 a success and to provide a base to launch another risky project like a 4th gen 7.

It seems then that the bunch in your undies is not about Mazda, more the situation in general. We're going to have to share the rotary enthusiasm with others who have never heard of a peritrochoid, and who won't understand the tight little fraternity of 7 owners. I imagine that's a little unsettling, but that's life. I can handle it, in fact the true rotary spirit to me means letting the public find out about it for themselves. The RX-8 is the next step.

Dave

 

The only thing these two cars have in common is a rotary engine. That's it. It's just a dealer ploy to make a sports sedan hang onto the coat tails of the RX7.

 

I would wait and see how the aftermarket progesses for the RX-8, all other RX's in the series have not been nearly as fast as the 7 w/out mods.

 

Isn't consumer reports reports by the consumer? I would think that FD owners are the ones making the statements about the car... I could be off there..

Lets be real here.... In todays society the FD is a pile of ****. Seriously. Hardly any of them have gone the mile. They break, overheat, are hard to work on for the average tech, expensive to maintain... I could go on... Even the well taken care for ones have issues.

People want a car they can jump in and take off. They don't want to wait for it to warm up. Nor do they want gauges to monitor. They sure as hell don't want to troubleshoot a FD's problematic sequential turbo system... People are lazy and cars have grown around that. It's sad.

I love the RX8. It a neat car. Interior is solid. Well made, unlike the FD that had so many cut-corners that 40 thousand miles of use and your seats are destroyed, the passenger door handle is ripped off, **** rattles and your center speaker crackles.

I'll never part with my FD... But I'm glad it's a fun car and not a daily driver anymore...

 

I have FD and a 8 A/T. The FD will roast the 8 in a straight line but the 8 handles the corners very well. Yes it is a comfortable 4 seater, daily driver, grocery getter. That is why I bought it. My wife drives the 8 to work every day and she loves it. To me it is about driving a rotary.

 

0-60 in 9 seconds? Most magazines have been getting numbers more in line with 5.9 or 6.0 0-60, and 1/4 mile times of 14.5. Many people out drag racing their stock RX-8's have been seeing mid to high 14's, only 1/2 second slower than a 3rd gen RX-7. The handling is also excellent, although some sacrifices had to be made to provide a nice comfortable ride, its handling isn't too far off the 3rd gen RX-7. Even with the revised performance numbers, the RX-8 is still getting the same times and handles well. Its performance is just 1 or 2 10/ths of a second behind competitors like the 350Z, and S2000. Your comments are totally uneducated, and your rantings stupid. They RX-8 is quicker and handles better than a lot of the competitors in its class, its fit and finish inside and outside is great quality, even for a $40,000 car. Plus the RX-8 is almost $10,000 cheaper than the 3rd gen RX-7 was 10 years ago. How is the RX-8 not a success? Mazda's passion has disappeared? What about the recent Mazda Rev-It up event, the nationwide racing challenge and training program that was a massive success? Mazda's sponsership of Laguna Seca Raceway? All the recent programs for Mazdaspeed and Mazda racers? Mazda gives fantastic support for even its amateur racers, and you question their passion? Mazda is a for-profit business, they are around to make money, but the amount of money they spend for their racing programs and support is incredible and despite their size they present the image of being a family oriented business. You seem to only to be baseing your opinions of the RX-8 not being a good car because its 0-60, 1/4mile, and skidpad are slightly lower than the 3rd gen RX-7? Yet it has better build, interior, exterior, and electronics quality, and better reliability than any rotaries before it and only slightly worse performance than one rotary powered vehicle? I think you missed the point of the car and the basis of its appeal.

 

Nope. I'm no Ford PR flak. (Used to run Automobile Magazine, though.....)

As for extraordinary engineering: how about a rotary engine that gets respectable fuel mileage, whose emmissions meet 50 state requirements, and makes 250hp normally aspirated (no doubt, you'll recall that our twin-turbos made 255hp). That's pretty remarkable engineering when compared to, say, the pushrod, 2-valve per cylinder, piston engined Corvette Z06. So, stick your nose in and around an RX8, and give them credit for a pretty bold effort in a decidedly look-alike, spec'd-alike world of cars today.

As someone who bought and owned a '74 RX4 Coupe in 1974 that used to get 14 mpg, needed a thermal reactor (!!) to clense it's dirty exhaust, and would belch flames out the exhaust after(!!) it was shut down because there was still unburned fuel in the still-furnace-hot reactor- the latest generation of rotary is an amazing powerplant.

 

I did hear that the RX-8 in Japan (not sure if it's 250hp or 280hp over there) ran on a track against an FD(280hp) and was losing a little on the straights (lack of twins) but was right up the FD's *** on the turns.

just a story i heard, does anyone know about this video or where to find it?

 

And so it goes......
The 8 is an incredible vehicle and it is not a 7.
The Jag XJ is not an e-type
The BMW 330 is not an M3
and the Mercedes -----well you get the idea.

Its good that Mazda is bringing the Rotary back to the table. It is altogether logical to do it with a sports sedan, ala Mitsubishi Evos and Subaru WRXs.

Once the public is familiar with the concept of rotaries, maybe we will see the successor to the 7 (like the RX-01).

Frenetic, high maintenance, gorgeous, tactile, visceral, uncivilized, uncompromising, nasty, harsh, raw, unforgiving, hostile, undomesticated, inhospitable, irresponsible and completely excessive.

Those are words that describe the way I like my cars and my women, which is why a 7 is my daily driver and has been for the last 8 years. **** I have a Volvo wagon when I need to appear stable.

Just my $.02

 

FWIW, my Mazda sales guy told me there will be a 4th gen Rx7 in two model years, so in 2005, the 4th Gen Rx7 will be released as a 2006? He's quite sure there will be turbochargers on the 4th Gen Rx7's Renesis motor. So start start saving your pennies, boyz and girlz...

 

hmm i heard it was just gonna be a 20b renesis but turbos do sound nice

 

Very well said. A couple of notes to add:

The FD3S's quick demise from the U.S. market had more to do with the changing tastes of the American buyer than any reliability issues. The early '90s saw the beginning of the sudden rise of the dreaded "SUV" as the mass market flavor of the month (actually, more like decade), and the manufacturers were more than happy to oblige, given the dramatic differences in total manufacturing and R&D costs to produce an SUV compared to a no-compromise sports car like the FD. Sports car sales overall took a dive during that time, and the FD was an unfortunate victim of that change in public buying tastes. The FD simply made its debut at the wrong time-- far ahead of its time.

It should also be noted that Ford is watching the reception and sales of the RX-8 very closely in basing their final decision on whether to let Mazda go ahead and introduce a new generation 7. The more people we bring into the rotary fold, the better the chances for Mazda to introduce a new 7.

 

I hate the RX-8. I mean great, new car....um, 4 doors? No thanks, um, AN AMAZING 210!!!! HP!!!! WOW!!! SO POWERFUL!!! Not..

I am totally disastisfied by the RX-8...it may look good, but it's a piece of ****. My accord is even faster than that grocery junk. THat much $ for a RX-8...you could buy a beautiful RX-7 and do mods and be 5348348384348X faster than a RX-8.

I hate all the new cars coming out...they are too stylish or ugly and too weak as far as performance....i wish maybe nissan made the RX-8...at least could have put in something way more powerful and NOT stupid 4 seats...

 

Now you know how I feel about cars made since, oh, about 1973.

You know, when they first started have to have big bumpers, and the emissions controls started to get nasty in those mostly non-FI days.

 

I hate it when you hold back. Tell us what you really think of the RX-8.

Yea, I shoulda kept my 72 Nova SS. 8 track and all.

 

The A/T4 has 197 hp and the M/T6 238 hp. Accord.. ha ha ha, what a sheep.

 

Well, all I can say is thanks for the very thoughtful comments. I think there were a lot of good points made and a lot of good insight. It's good to know that there is at least some PASSION here.

My undies are unbunched, my nose is back in line and
I still love my FD3S more than any car I've ever owned.
Warts and all. It has more "gee whiz" factor than any mass produced car on the road today or for the past 10 years.

I, of course, hope a bunch of RX8's are sold since there is no question this is probably the last gasp for the rotary! (and our best chance for a new RX7)

I need to get my butt down to the dealer and give an RX8 a spin. I just have a feeling that the one word I will ending up using to describe my test drive will be: PLACID - serenely free of interruption or disturbance or maybe even FLACCID - lacking vigor or force.

Which is just about opposite from FRENETIC.

BTW, I got a new AO Smith water heater, which I could not fit into the back of my FD3S, since it's a SPORTS CAR.

 

Actually, its not. while it is "sporty", it is not classed as a sports car. It is a GT car.

You can claim it is all you want, but according to the definition of the term, it is not a sports car.

 

I'm not sure why you would say that an RX7 is not a sports car, or who's definition you are using. Sure, you can probably find some outdated dictionary with a definition that says otherwise. However, I think that virtually everyone that knows anything about cars will tell you that an RX7 is a sports car. After reading your statement, I must conclude that you are the one that doesn't know anything about cars.

 

I assume you are talking about the RX8?? I don't think anyone in their right mind would consider the FD a GT car.

 

HUH? The FD3S is not a sports car? If I remember correctly Mazduh thought so since they labled it "..the return of the pure sports car..." or something like that.

Of course it's been 11 years since I read their brochure and I am getting kind of senile.

Oh, and the word you were groping for is "classified".

Buh-bye Hoser!

 

Ron, you are definitely in the running for most humorous member of the forum (notice I didn't say amusing, which has a completely different kind of connotation... ).

My opinions about the RX-8 are it's the right car for the times we live in. Unfortunately Mazda blew a few key points, especially the power levels needed to compete in today's market place. I think Mazda royally screwed up any chance of the car sellling big with the missing horsepower issue. They've been working on this engine for 8 years (or more) and the RX-8 specifically for over 3 years. To blow the claimed power rating was inexcusable, especially since the power rating was too low to be competetive in the first place. Apparently, the RX-8 is a laughing stock over at the S2000 and 350Z forums.....

If I was shopping for a sports sedan in the low $30k range, I would find it difficult to pick the RX-8 over the Infiniti G35, now that that sedan is available with the 6-speed manual.