Has anyone tried to piece together a bushing kit from prothane and energy suspensions stock? I know that there aren't specific ones listed but our bushings aren't so different that there shouldn't be an identicall sized one made for another application. Or close enoughthat it could be cut or slightly sanded to fit.

Just thought I'd see if anyone else has tried this before I give it a whirl. It would be a nice alternative for those of us not looking to spend $700 on a set.




Also, does anyone know of a listing of bushing dimensions I would be able to use, to save the uninstall-measure-reinstall process?

 

Back again, huh? Try cutting or sanding polyurethane and let me know how it goes.

I do.

 

Is $600 really that much to pay for a set of bushings? Why would you want to go through all the hassle? You must have better things to do with your time? Just a thought.

 

It's common for people to deny the reason of spending 600$ on a car which will not make it go faster...

I was there as well sometime in the "old" days.. untill you experience those upgraded parts and you will know on what you spend your money...

 

To answer some questions:

Yes $680 IS too much for a few simply machined pieces of polyurethane, whoever believes otherwise feel free to continue in your ignorance.

I do have some free time to think about this and possibly save myself and others a lot of money. Obviously you have some free time, your posting useless responses to my thread.

I do understand that every dollar put into a car doesn't make it faster, but thanks for suggesting that my thoughts are that juvenille.

Forget my suggestion, keep overpaying. Justify your costs however you want.

 

Yeah I'm sure you do, and if you weren't afraid of me being right there would be no fear in releasing this data. The fact is you do charge WAY more than it costs to produce the bushings. Don't get me wrong, you deserve the profit, I mean you did the leg work, but don't try to act like it can't be done a lot cheaper.

I understand not helping out for the sake of profit, but don't act like you work miracles by producing these.



Please don't post here if you choose not to help, I could do without your transparent comments.

 

I'd buy the set tomorrow for $425, but the only option now is $680.


This thread is not about Jimlab's bushings.

 

If you can do better, feel free to make your own. Pull your suspension apart, remove the bushings, and start measuring.

After you've made a set (if you ever get that far), let me know if you still think the same way. I know of one other person who thought the same and made their own, and they had no interest whatsoever in doing it again for anyone else.

Riiight. I should just hand over my dimensions so you don't have to do any work yourself.

BTW, I'm not making my bushings any more, so I don't care what you do. Knock yourself out. I'm not going to do your homework for you, though.

Sure. You haven't made a single bushing yet, let alone a set, so you have no idea what the material costs and manufacturing costs are. In fact, I doubt you've ever machined anything in your life. If you had, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Not through my sources, but you're more than welcome to try.

Like I said, if they're so easy to make, do it. Don't just talk about it. Isn't this the third or fourth time we've had this same conversation?

Why would you need anyone's help? They're simple to make, remember?

Of course it isn't.

 

This thread doesn't need to go this way.


If you have no interest in making more profit then why not release the dimensions? I'm not even looking to make a profit, just piece together the kit if possible and tell everyone the part numbers. Why would this be a problem for you of you were done profitting from your data. Why not post it on the forums, I mean this forum is where everyone is to come together and share their knowledge.


And you can stop your personal comments, all I'm trying to do is help people get a part cheaper than they currently can. So go ahead and hold on to those dimensions if you feel better hindering than helping.

 

As much as Jim and I have our differences you've got to be kidding! You want to make your own kit to save $$ but you want someone else to give you the *answer* ie dimensions of the parts?

Jim is completely right here. If you want to make the parts then figure out how big they should be on your own. If it is so easy then just do it.

In math class did you just write down answers off other people's homework. I mean if they already had the answer why should you have to figure it out?

Put up or shut up.

 

You pretty much ensured that it would with your first post...

"It would be a nice alternative for those of us not looking to spend $700 on a set."

Because this isn't show and tell time?

Thanks, but I shared at the office.

Will do.

 

I don't understand your logic. I'm not benefiting from the data anymore than anyone else would be. This isn't cheating for a damn test, how can you guys not see this. There's no need for an analogy to understand this one. He has information that can possibly help out EVERY FD OWNER. It will not hurt his profit in any way. In fact everyone would be grateful to him.

I'm going to do the rest of the work, calling up the bushing companies and cross referenceing to see if i can piece together a working kit. Then I would tell everyone the part numbers. if I went by Jim's logic i would hoard these part numbers and not help others out, even though I would not benefit from their lack of knowledge.

 

Why am i being treated like a cheater or something, I'm proposing a solution to a problem. A problem that will get even greater if the manufacturing of these bushings in over.


Please explain to me why you won't share the information you've gathered if you are done profitting from it.

"This isn't show and tell" really isn't much of an answer.

You're not just denying me the knowledge, you're keep the whole community from possibly benefitting.

 

Good luck with that.

Because it wasn't done with just a few phone calls or by looking over a few pages in the shop manual. A lot of effort went into making my bushing kit, and I'm not going to hand over the dimensions that came from all that trial and error or make them public domain simply because you're too lazy to do the work yourself.

Tell you what. I'll sell you the dimensions for my bushings for $1,500, and if you want to share them with everyone after that, you're more than welcome.

 

see you keep attacking me. I'm not saying I'm going to make a better product. The bushings you made are great from what I hear, I would be looking to find cheaper ones (prothane, ES) that could possibly replace them.

I understand you put work into the dimensions, and you've profitted from this. But since you were done I don't see the problem, you're letting the knowledge go to waste


also I know I could buy a set and measure them, which I thought about, but that would be a pretty shady move.

Jim you really are acting childish with your posts. Is it impossible to mention bushings and still talk as men?

 

4CN Air,

can you stop with this non-sense... how can you ask for the data that jim had worked for. How about the people who bought jim's bushings?! They will be cheated by jim releasing the data when many spent good money on them.

Formula one teams DO NOT release testing data (wind tunnel) for any of the cars that they have "raced." This can be apply to jim also... he doesn't have to release his data to anyone even though he does not want to make profit off of them.

you have to pay to play...

 

My guess is that if it was feasible to piece together a kit for the FD from standard-sized bushings readily available in other kits, then Energy Suspension of some other manufacturer would offer a turnkey kit. The fact that they do not likely indicates that there are some fitment issues specific to the car that they do not want to address due to custom machining necessary for a low volume application.

Jimlab has done the research and justifiably feels he has data worthy of compensation. I have a hunch he also did the research to verify that Energy Suspension did not have the components readily available before he took the plunge to machining his own bushing sets.

Or maybe that's his big secret. He's just been piecing together kits from surplus ricer bushing kits and doesn't want the secret to get out...

 

Don't you think I called Prothane, Energy Suspension, and Suspension Techniques before resorting to making my own bushings? If there were sizes in their inventories that were an easy fit for the FD without having to make molds, don't you think one of them would have had a set for sale by now? You're more than welcome to try, though.

However, the bottom line is that you think my price was too high because A) you apparently can't afford it, and B) they appear simple to you, and therefore they must be simple (and cheap) to make. I agree, they are "simple" to make. Simple, but extremely time and labor intensive, and that's where the major expense comes from. Buy a lathe and a couple rods of Nylon and let me know how it works out.

I think this discussion is pretty much over.

 

Jim.


I am normally on your side on most of your posts, but this one I don't get. I side with 4CN. I understand you put a lot of work into the measurements and producing the bushings but why not let him try. If he fails then who cares.

My suggestion is give him the dimensions of the differential bushings only. Let him make 40 calls and see if he returns with an exact match for much cheaper than stock mazdas or aftermarket. If he succeeds, feed him one more bushing dimension.

What do you think?

-Joseph

 

Who's keeping him from trying?

Let's put it this way. If he's enough of an expert to determine that the manufacturing and material costs of my bushings were far less than what I was charging just by looking at pictures of them, then he's certainly expert enough to tear down his own suspension and press out the bushings to take his own measurements.

All I see is someone too cheap to buy a ready-made kit and too lazy to get the measurements to make his own. The only person stopping him is himself.

My suggestion is that you should pull your differential mount, press out a bushing, measure it and the socket it fits in and then see if you still feel the same way about just giving him the measurements to run with.

 

stop acting like a child. I did not put down your bushings, nor did I say I could make them better. The post wasn't even about reproducing your bushings, it was about putting together a cheaper kit of lesser quality for those who can't afford/don't want to pay $700. I don't want to start some big thing here because I'm not challenging your abilities or knowledge. I know you probably have more of both, but don't just assume i have no machining experience and would be incapable of reproducing a kit.

So go ahead and sit on your data, let it go to waste.

Let the discussion end.


I'll start working on gathering part #'s of universal bushings/seals that do work for FD's, if anyone has any info they would like to contribute please PM me.

 

Garfinkle made some bushings for my brothers 2nd gen on the lathe, so it can be done .He is saving a used set from a customers car to get measurments from , so he will have them ready when needed .Buy a lathe then make the bushings . You will still have the lathe.

 

It's certainly an admirable goal. Good luck with that.

You've repeatedly said that they were overpriced, and that means you don't think they're worth the cost. You don't consider that putting them down?

Which you still need measurements for, and since this isn't the first (or even second) time you've started this debate, you deserved a little heckling. If you don't like what my bushings cost, get up off your *** and do something about it instead of expecting other people to hand you everything.

True, you only challenged my honesty and integrity instead.

My margin on the bushings was far less than what you pay for many other products for the FD, and I'll stick with my assessment that you think they should be cheap to manufacture because you don't understand what was involved in making them. Spend twelve hours standing in front of a lathe and let me know what that time is worth to you.

If you had real machining experience, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You'd understand how much time and labor are involved.

It's not going to waste as far as I'm concerned.

 

Paul, I don't think you understand. He wants someone else to buy the lathe and take the measurements, and then make him a set of bushings for just the cost of the materials.

Actually, I think he's hoping that someone will run with his idea and try to find the various sizes in other bushing kits needed to piece together a set for the FD. If he was actually serious about this and willing to do the leg work himself, he would have already called the major bushings companies by now.

That's the difference between us. When I want something, I make it happen. I don't just talk about it and hope that it'll fall out of the sky into my lap. For example...

 

More like 16 for your run of the mill novice.