spoolage

iTrader: (2)

I need input... kind of in a rush so I can not go in depth but please share with me your thoughts / concerns.

I purchased an FD today that is in fabulous condition but the only problem is that the water seal is going.

I took it by Gotham Racing to have it looked over (thanks george + alex), and aside from minor leaks and insignificant issues, they found bubbles emerging in the coolant filler neck.

I bought the car with the intent to rebuild the whole engine, go single etc... so the fact that the engine may be on it's way out is not a huge concern for me.

My question is this --- is there any way to gauge how much longer this engine will run before I run into heating issues? I drove it from Dallas to Austin (250 miles) in 100+ heat and it ran fine...

What do you think I should do, break the engine down while the problem is still small and try to do a soft gasket rebuild or what?

One other thing... I just ordered 3 greddy gauges (oil pressure, water temp + boost) --- the car is bone stock so I am trying to get the basics taken care of first.

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

there's no real way of knowing when it's going to go.. the only time you can see an engine failure coming is if you chip a seal and it slowly dies. but even then you won't know when it's gonna blow an apex seal.

my advice is to buy whatever rebuild kit your engine builder recommends (rotary aviation, atkins, oem, etc..) and then go over the whole engine 1 time.


i say drive it and keep an eye on the coolant/temp gauge. an aftermarket water temp should be installed asap.

(I also wouldn't be beating on it in it's condition)

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Just watch how much coolant it uses. Coolant seal problems are only related to overheating when it burns off so much coolant that the coolant runs low.

And get that water temp gauge installed and working.

Dave

Matt Hey

I've personally seen 3 coolant o-ring failures. 2 overheated but didn't fog out the exhaust much. The other fogged a bunch but didn't overheat. The two that overheated were fixed with radiator stop leak and are still running.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

I have been reading up on the block sealer's and am currently under the impression that these can do more harm than good and they are only effective as a temporary fix. The bubbles are still very minute so would the sealer be more effective early on versus later?

DaveW

IMO, the main problem with sealers is that they tend to clog a lot of stuff (radiators, heater cores, etc.) in addition to (sometimes) stopping the leak.

The concensus that I've seen and read is that they often cause more trouble than they're worth. IMO, just live with the minor coolant leakage until it causes problems, or until you're ready to rebuild.

As everyone said, pay close attention to the coolant temperatures and level.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

New question, still deals with the coolant.....

I have been topping off the radiator filler neck for the last twenty minutes, I am out at my brothers place currentley and do not have a funnel so I have been doing it bit by bit at which point, during this time, I decided to check the coolant reservoir tank to see what the level was at...

To my surprise, and I have never seen this on the last 3 FD's I owned; I found a brown, almost mud like substance all over the dip stick (for the coolant overflow tank) --- what the hell is this?

Could the previous owner have already used a block sealer trying to cover up the failing water seal? I also noticed very very fine metallic looking particles in the coolant when looking at the filler neck.

Generally, what color are these "block sealers" that people use as a temporary fix? Looks like I may have to pull the engine apart sooner than I had anticipated.

Thanks for everyones responses thus far and I appreciate any other comments / ideas people may have regarding this new concern of mine

Turbo II FC

iTrader: (14)

Its probably like you suspected. The previous owner probably already used block sealer and thats the reminants of it. The block sealer that a friend of mine used on his FD was copperish/gold in color. Tell Natty that Lino said whatsup. I always liked the white FD you had before. Ill be rebuilding my FD here soon. Take it easy Greg.

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

the color of them is varied. I've used a few of them and have mixed results. Sometimes they worked well, sometimes not. Some are liquid and some are solid metal-like flakes. I believe the prestone is green..

if you do decide to put a stop-leak in it, I would advise putting it directly into the water pump housing fill area and not the res. tank. My guess is the previous owner put a stop leak in the res. tank and it just sat there.

Matt Hey

The muddy brown snot in the coolant overflow tank is common. Metal flakes in the coolant is not. Many radiator stop leaks are metallic particles. Most are flushed out after application and new coolant added. There could be some left after flushing though. The metal flakes could come from something else too. You might feel the water pump bearing and make sure it's not wobbling and look for any coolant out the weep hole. Small chance but easy to do.
The radiator stop leak could clog up smaller passages reducing the maximum cooling capacity of the whole system but that is better than running a rotary with a coolant o-ring failure that causes overheating. The latter can lead to warped engine parts while the prior probably wouldn't unless tracked and can be cleaned out during rebuild. I could see why someone wouldn't want the radiator stop leak if they have an expensive new radiator but just coolant will buildup corrosion and debris in the bottom of the radiator over time. I used the water free Evans coolant with a new radiator to address the corrosion problem. It seems to be kind to the o-rings judging by the number of failures with the Evans coolant. There may even be a few 7 owners that don't change their water based coolant as often as they should too.

dhays

iTrader: (1)

Hey Spoolage. Just a note to let you know that I think I'm in the same boat as you are. I was doing an idle learn for a PFC this afternoon and since I've also been chasing a minor coolant leak, I decided to put a Lilse funnel on to do a complete burping of the system. I noticed today that I started to get some champagne bubbling today. It isn't noticeable at idle, but is definitely there when I bring the throttle up to 2k rpm.

So since my car never overheats (in fact it tends to run cool in normal driving), i'm trying to decide what to do. I'm thinking about just waiting and watching, or trying one of the leak blocks. Not sure yet.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Only time will tell I suppose... I did the champagne test a second time bu this time around I let the car run for about 15 - 20 minutes at which point the flow of bubbles became more consistent. (Nothing like I have been seeing on these you tube videos though) The stream of bubbles I am seeing emerge would best be described as a person blowing very softly through a coffee straw.

I want to avoid the block sealer's so my first step is to install the gauges that should arrive this week, keep an eye on the temps, do a complete flush of the system, remove the overflow tank and get the nasty gunk out of it and the connecting hoses, replace the plastic AST and THEN I will repeat the champagne test once more.

Since purchasing the car, I have put approx 500+ miles on it (Dallas to Austin, Austin to Houston) both took place in 100+ heat and the car ran fine. I haven't seen any overflow / spillage coming from the overflow tank.

One other question --- when I take the radiator cap off, the water level is all the way at the top of the filler neck, but once the cap is off for about 5 seconds, the coolant level drops down about 3 inches (is this normal?)

Thanks again for everyones responses - I know that the seal is likely going, I just want to see how long how I can delay the inevitable. The real test will be the 1000 mile drive to Boulder, Colorado at the end of Summer.

beqa16v

these bubbles mean bad coolant seal when they appear on hot engine or only when its cold and thermostat is closed?

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Take the cap off and the coolant dropping is common when there is air in the system(after flushing coolant, installing new radiator, or bad coolant seal )

Just keep driving it and dont let it over heat, it will eventually get worse and overheat in about 15-20 mins. Just dont overheat it to the point where the engine internals arent reusuable.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I wouldnt recommend the block weld. It's a hack fix and will most likely cause more problems for you down the road. I think 'watching and waiting' makes a lot more sense

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Well... today was a productive day!!!

I flushed my radiator 4 times and ended up doing a 20 / 80 (coolant / water) ratio

Since I was underneath the car and had the under tray off, I figured I would go ahead and remove the overflow tank as well. Accessing this and removing it only took an extra 10 minutes and I will post a picture of what came out of it tomorrow morning --- I am talking thick, mud brown liquid tainted with microscopic shimmering bits of metal. That is another story in it's own, likely related to the reason why the previous owner went through three engines before installing this one 10k ago (he mentioned his water pump seizing and snapping the belt -- I assume it is related to a block sealer, and the remnants are what I found in the overflow tank.

On top of flushing the coolant, I went ahead and did my oil, replaced the 5w30 with 15w 50 (I figured a high viscosity oil like this couldn't hurt in the Texas 100+ 1heat)

I also went by an audio store to pick up some dynamat 36 square feet (the bulk package) for $160.00 --- I know there are cheaper alternatives but I like dynamat and I am also on a time constraint with my internship approaching this coming week.

Anyways, I went to pick up just the dynamat and $550.00 later I left with new front alpine speakers w/ components and rear speakers w/ tweeters. I did not want to get over the top speakers but just something decent because get this --- the speakers I found when removing the door panels were the factory ones (made out of CARDBOARD, but were in excellent shape).

Anyways --- my main reason for posting is that I ran out of daylight and my Mom's place does not have a shop light for me to continue my little upgrades BUT, since I only finished installing the new speakers + dynamatting the door -- I thought I could do a writeup, with pictures detailing the process.

First off --- my reason for dynamatting the door was not the usual problem related to the "hollow" noise commonly found on 93's when opening and closing the door. I have a 94 and the issue was not present, the reason I went on to doing my doors was because I could not stand the plastic flexing noise from the doors when closing / going over bumps. If you are not sure what I am talking about, tug on your drivers side door handle and listen do the plastic noise -- it sounds so cheap.

I drive my Mom's e55 AMG around and I wanted to try and attain a "sturdyness" similar to a Benz; obviously that is a luxury, 5 thousand pound, $60,000 car, but I still wanted to make my doors more "luxurious".

In a nut shell, I pulled the door panel off, removed the vapor shield and applied dynamat on the whole inside metal part of the door (this used exactly one sheet of dynamat that came in the 36 square feet bulk pack). Once I did that part of the door, I proceeded to work on the actual door panel --- I used another sheet of dynamat (the bulk pack comes with 9 individual sheets) to coat the entire inside. I was worried about the dynamat not sticking to the foam but it stuck incredibly well and I have no concerns of it coming off in the future.

After I did both the inside door panel, and the inner metal of the door, I re-attached the panel to see how my new speakers sounded & see how the component I installed looked.

End of the day -- RESULTS ARE AMAZING; SOUND HAS IMPROVED DRAMATICALLY, BASS IS MUCH CLEARER and I am plain old happy!!!!

I will do the otherside of the car tomorrow and take pictures during the process for anyone that may be interested. Thinks I will document that you can keep tuned in for will be:

-Front + Rear Speaker replacement
-How do install a component in a door panel (I will show the drill bit needed)
-How I did the whole dynamat process

dhays

iTrader: (1)

I came to the same conclusion. Now I'm kind of at a stand-still. I was going to have a tune done next month, but I don't want to invest the $$$ in a tune on an engine that I think is going to crap out at any time. At the same time, I'm not all that excited about shelling out the money for a new/rebuilt engine.

Unfortunately, I can't do a R/R myself. It looks like it is going to cost me about $2500 in labor just to pull it and reinstall it. Add the cost of the engine rebuild, not to mention all the other stuff that I'll decide to do "as long as the engine is pulled anyway..." and I'm looking at a fair bit of change.

beqa16v

I have no bubbles when i start the engine cold, not a single one. when it heats up, bubbles are all around the place. i have no white smoke. only a bit blueish smoke which burns my eyes and nose on startup. The car is not loosing coolant i guess. reserve tank is always 2 lines below full. air separation tank is always full. although filler neck is never full. it goes about 1-1.5 inch down and stays that way. if i fill it up it goes down again and stays that way. temperature never goes above 210 even when sitting in trafick. when there is no traffic it stays at 195-200. on highways its about 180-185. i'm curious, could this symptoms indicate a bad coolant seal

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Yours definatley sounds like a coolant seal issue... The blue smoke is not not realted to failing coolant seals though, that would be related to oil that is burning up. As for the bubbles that emerge once the engine is warmed up - this is due to the fact that it takes a certain temperature for the thermostat to open, once the thermostat opens the coolant is distributed from all points of the system, the block being part of it and this is where the leak will cause severe bubbling in the filler neck.

My issue is that I have very tiny bubbles in my system, nothing like I have been seeing in the videos - so I am not sure if I have a coolant seal, or if it is just beginning, or if I just have a tiny stream of bubbles emerging. Either way, I found a new engine for $3000.00 so I am going to pick it up and keep it around until this engine starts to poop on me.

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

Props to the OP for doing a coolant change and removing/cleaning the coolant reservoir. That was my first suggestion reading through this.

And please post more pics of the work you did on your doors, I need to do the same along with fixing the passenger side door handle.. gah, everyone pulls on that damn thing! People are starting to get the wrong impression of me when I always close the door for them, guys too! LOL

beqa16v

sounds strange. the car is not bucking or runing 1 rotor when cold started. cold or hot, it starts perfectly and idles well. I fixed one leak a month ago. it was lower radiator hose. then i found that AST hose connecting to overflow tank was loose. i'm wondering what is next.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Do a pressure test if your would really want to know. Also, while the car is running, smell your exhaust --- if it smells slightly sweet, this is the coolant burning up in the combustion chamber which is a strong indicator of a coolant seal failure.

In a nut shell, hop on the Rotary Coolant Seal Failing Banwagon, get a temp gauge (I am still waiting for mine to get shipped to me) and keep an eye on the water temps, oil temps and just enjoy the engine till it is no mas!

beqa16v

I already have aftermarket coolant temp and oil temp gauges installed. my car is not overheating. even in stop and go traffic temperature never goes past 210f. on highways it goes down to 180 sometimes. also i have never experienced coolant buzzer. the only thing that worries me is that filler neck is always an inch low. if i dont add coolant, it will not go down any more but stay there.

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Thats normal =P

spoolage

iTrader: (2)

Okay guys ---

I am resurrecting this thread from the dead with new information...

I installed my water temp, oil pressure + boost gauges this afternoon (finally got the din plate to mount them under my head unit).

At idle, the engine pulls 19 inches of mercury (thats good)

The engine temperatures average 90-100 (they actually run cooler with the a/c on) I know this is due to the fact that the fans are running full duty --- but this is another issue in its own... the point is in 100+ heat, the car never goes above 100c

However, when I first installed the gauges & was testing the water temp, I did allow the car to warm up to operating temperatures so I could check the water temp gauge in relation to when the fans engage. The water temp went all the way to 115c before the fans engaged, at which point I shut it down and let it cool. Now... if I do leave the a/c on (dont ask), the water temps never go above 100.

So my reason for posting is this... the engine has great vaccume, the water temps are manageable BUT, I did see bubbles in my coolant. While I still think it is a failing water seal, is there any possibility that it could be due to a crack in the water cooling line that runs to my turbos? The reason I ask is because when I boost the car and the secondary turbo kicks in, I get a faint smell of coolant inside the cabin (which makes me think that there is a possibility that under pressure, the coolant is leaking and then instantly vaporizing, and this is what I smell)

To make this situation even more complex for my self I am stuck with two routes to go:

Option 1: I found a great deal on a long block engine 30 minutes away. When I say long block, I mean everything --- anything attached to the engine is mine, as well as a fluidine radiator (my engine compartment is bone stock). The best part is that the engine comes with a 1 year / 12k mile warranty. This option would be best for me IF my water seals really are on their way out. All together thi s will run me 3k.

Option 2: My engine is fine, I get a pfc, new radiator, new intercooler, new fuel setup & I would have roughly 600 left over.

I guess my question is this --- is there any way I can really test my cooling system to get a more definite answer than just doing the champagne bubble test? The reason why I am not satisified with the buble test is this: the engine runs fantastic (excellent vaccume), it does not have any over heating issues (no more than any stock engine setup), it does not blow ANY smoke in the morning on a cold start, and I get no sweet smell in the exaust that I had with 2 of my previous FD's.

I really feel like there is a leak somewhere in the system that is causing bubbles to emerge, I just do not know where to look --- what else could cause a VERY small and tame line of bubbles to emerge in the filler neck?