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I've looked into Ceramic Coating for exhaust components, specifically the muffler section. I know that generally a high temperatuire ceramic coating offered for the exhaust manifold, downpipe, etc is done with a black or grey coating. For the muffler section, I want my car to look good and keep its stainless steel/chrome appearance. There are off the shelf ceramic coating products from like GTechniq or Adams, but these are mostly for paint applications. Will these off the shelf ceramic coatings for paint use last long on a high heat application like an exhaust? Is there anyone that offers a translucent/clear high temperature muffler coating that can endure the high heat that an exhaust would experience?
I'd call a company like Jet-Hot and ask them about it. The good thing is the cat-back doesn't get as hot so you don't need an extreme coating which means there are a lot more options.
Jet-Hot does fantastic work, their coatings work amazingly well and are bulletproof.
Ceramic coating for exhaust components involves applying a powder coat and then baking at high heat. The main advantage is for things that get really hot like turbo manifolds and downpipes. Especially on the FD, you can really reduce underhood temps with a ceramic coated downpipe, and I highly recommend having any aftermarket downpipes coated.
As Dale said, the catback doesn't get nearly as hot and isn't really worth coating, IMO.
Ceramic coating for paint is an entirely different product. It's basically just a thin polymer layer that is designed to protect delicate clear coat, and won't do anything on your exhaust other than maybe making it easier to clean for a couple of weeks until it wears off from the heat.
I haven't been that impressed with turbo manifold coating longevity, though it does work while it has lasted. Downpipes seem to be in that sweet spot of benefitting from coatings while also staying cool enough/have enough air flow over them so as to keep the coating from premature flaking.
That said; I haven't had antyhi coated in thnge past couple years, there may have been tech thats been introduced that negates my own concerns/argument.
SwainTech White Lightning is what you want. Manifold and downpipe, wrap on the downpipe and midpipe. Rear cabin heat is probably from the sun coming through the hatch glass, 3M clear IR tint will have a much larger impact.
Most ceramic paints are exactly that, a ceramic paint. The SwainTech is an alloy ceramic slurry heat barrier, functionally different from Jet-Hot. Jet-Hot does have a much nicer appearance though. I probably should have used exhaust paint over the SwainTech coating.
If you want something that actually works as a proper heat barrier get inconel shield instead.
i have used several ceramic coatings on different exhaust setups and none of them made a significant difference.
If you want something that actually works as a proper heat barrier get inconel shield instead.
i have used several ceramic coatings on different exhaust setups and none of them made a significant difference.
This is my experience as well. It's just not worth it. It will not last and do not perform well. Inconel heat shield all the way. If you go directly to the source, it costs less then you might think. Service from ATP is also incredible, which is not normally the case when dealing with automotive based companies. Any inconel I have had made as taken 2 day's or less!
If you want something that actually works as a proper heat barrier get inconel shield instead.
i have used several ceramic coatings on different exhaust setups and none of them made a significant difference.
This is my experience as well. It's just not worth it. It will not last and do not perform well. Inconel heat shield all the way. If you go directly to the source, it costs less then you might think. Service from ATP is also incredible, which is not normally the case when dealing with automotive based companies. Any inconel I have had made as taken 2 day's or less!
ATP is the way to go, i had shipped my stuff from halfway around the world to get the ATP treatment and they did not disappoint one bit and far more reasonably priced than other vendors. They are the manufacturers anyway .
i had used your heat shied on the manifold you sold me @Neutron . swaintech, calico, zirconia and others did not protect the surrounding components and rhd cars are a little more sensitive to heat
Several years ago, I had all of the metal piping, I mean everything from the air intake piping, the UIM, LIM, turbos, exhaust manifold, and downpipe ceramic coated by a professional shop that does NASCAR and racing teams ceramic coatings. The downpipe was in and out. The intake pipes were heat blocker toward the engine and heat transfer (releases more heat to air) toward the hood. The different coatings are low heat, medium heat and high coatings, These various coatings have different specifications for better heat blocking in their respective temperature range. My UIM and LIM are extruded honed for smoother non-turbulent airflow. I even coated the intercooler with heat blocker on the bottom and top and heat transfer on the fins. I also coated the heat shields. The professional shop consulted with me on how to coat all the different components to maximize heat management. Unfortunately, I never did a pre coating under hood temperature but I have a temperature sensor in my intake, I was running about10 degrees F above ambient on the highway after coating. Here are some pics.
Mike
The downpipe on my car has been coated for a decade now. Probably 40k miles on it. The stuff is still there and looks the same as it did on day 1. I forget where I got it done unfortunately...
The downpipe on my car has been coated for a decade now. Probably 40k miles on it. The stuff is still there and looks the same as it did on day 1. I forget where I got it done unfortunately...
if it was done right (and a lot of times its done right) it will still look good for many years to come however it doesn’t provide the heat barrier as claimed.
the zirconia style coating eventually fades from the initial metallic look (in appearance anyway)over the years and during the heat cycles
I would say if you can afford it, do both. If not, go with the shielding vs the coating.
The right coating applied properly will provide benefit, there are reasons jet engines have coatings on things like turbine blades (not necessarily always for heat, but they do work if done right.
Using physical shielding creates a physical barrier which works very well. In aerospace, they need to resort to coatings often when space or weight do not allow for physical shielding.
I trust GRM with their testing, and they usually have very good reasons to choose the parts they use in builds. The SwainTech coating barrier is claimed 35% to 55% heat reduction, GRM is showing 8% reduction with just a low temp MAP gas torch. It's also way thicker than any other ceramic coating. Of course, nothing beats proper shielding
While I believe that this level of testing is laughable to say the least, it kinda proves what i am telling you about the difference between coated bs uncoated. 10F temperature delta is a negligible difference. This difference is probably caused by the testing method because testing this way you can never get repeatable results
at the end of the day if you feel that it works for you, thats all it matters
It's pretty basic. I'll get an IR thermometer and check after I run the car. I'm sure there's someone with EGT sensors and an uncoated turbosource shorty we can compare to. I'd imagine the difference only grows with more heat.
But honestly, do a bit more research instead of just writing it off. It's used on a ton of true race cars. It's a thick ceramic slurry that is shot onto the part at very high temps, it's not a paint. Start poking around the track guys in the USA and it's by far the preferred coating for heat management. It also protects the part if you want to add wrap over it, like I did for my downpipe.
It's pretty basic. I'll get an IR thermometer and check after I run the car. I'm sure there's someone with EGT sensors and an uncoated turbosource shorty we can compare to. I'd imagine the difference only grows with more heat.
But honestly, do a bit more research instead of just writing it off. It's used on a ton of true race cars. It's a thick ceramic slurry that is shot onto the part at very high temps, it's not a paint. Start poking around the track guys in the USA and it's by far the preferred coating for heat management. It also protects the part if you want to add wrap over it, like I did for my downpipe.
do a little more research? I think you are the one who needs to do some research. I had used swaintech on my manifold downpipe and turbine housing and if it made a difference it was negligible. My car caught on fire from the excessive heat. I had done the swaintech coating to prevent that from happening and it did not perform. When i said i used a variety of ceramic coatings in the past including swaintech means i did far more than the “research” you are referring to. I have been experimenting with ceramic coatings from way back in 2007; did you even have an fd then? If this garbage worked i would have had my car to this day so yeah spare me the bullshit and the smart talk
I coat my stock TT manifold with SwainTech White Lightning (SWL) some twenty years ago. The coating literally started to melt off. The drips looked like stalactites at the bottom of the manifold. Swain didn't believe me and only offer to recoat the manifold. Needless to say, that wasn't going to help, and have written them off. I'm fairly certain the root cause was the HELLISHLY higher temps of a rotary exhaust (especially the OEM manifold). Presumably, SWL probably works fine in the much cooler EGTs of piston exhausts... or even downstream of rotary turbo(s). Regardless, due to the product performance and even worse customer service experience... Swain is dead to me!
That said, there are other ceramic coatings better suited to rotary exhaust manifolds. Since then, I've used Airborn and Jethot 2000 ceramic coating on my current single and they've both held up... at least on the outside.
Last edited by Carlos Iglesias; 02-26-23 at 06:56 AM.
Reason: ADD
do a little more research? I think you are the one who needs to do some research. I had used swaintech on my manifold downpipe and turbine housing and if it made a difference it was negligible. My car caught on fire from the excessive heat. I had done the swaintech coating to prevent that from happening and it did not perform. When i said i used a variety of ceramic coatings in the past including swaintech means i did far more than the “research” you are referring to. I have been experimenting with ceramic coatings from way back in 2007; did you even have an fd then? If this garbage worked i would have had my car to this day so yeah spare me the bullshit and the smart talk
Lol don’t get your panties in a twist. Pretty damn sure your car burned down from something else, the coating isn’t flammable. What actually failed? It’s a 0.015” thick coating, what did you actually expect? I definitely didn’t burn your car down, I was busy messing with 2002’s and different flavors of E30’s.
Why didn’t you mention that you used it before?
I’m surprised to hear about it failing. Swaintech does say that cosmetically it doesn’t hold up, but the heat insulation properties do. Seems to be recommended by a lot of people, too many for it to be snake oil. I’ll cross my fingers it holds up, it’s rated for rotary temps as long as it’s used externally.
Lol don’t get your panties in a twist. Pretty damn sure your car burned down from something else, the coating isn’t flammable. What actually failed? It’s a 0.015” thick coating, what did you actually expect? I definitely didn’t burn your car down, I was busy messing with 2002’s and different flavors of E30’s.
Why didn’t you mention that you used it before?
I’m surprised to hear about it failing. Swaintech does say that cosmetically it doesn’t hold up, but the heat insulation properties do. Seems to be recommended by a lot of people, too many for it to be snake oil. I’ll cross my fingers it holds up, it’s rated for rotary temps as long as it’s used externally.
Has anyone tried Zircotec?
i did mention it and i didnt say that car burned down because of the coating itself but i suppose you cant read a whole sentence .
what i said was that the coating did not perform as the heat insulation/barrier swaintech advertises, as you have also reiterated.
the dust boost on the steering column at the firewall joint is what caught on fire. Having a gtx42 at the time and a 4inch downpipe is a pretty cramped setup on an rhd vehicle.. the rest is history .
i currently have a 4inch downpipe. Just as big of a turbo and everything is inconel shielded and all the problems are solved
as for the zircotech it is identical to swaintech a zirconia based ceramic coating. i don’t expect it to perform it any better. My only experience with zircotec is that they applied a very thick coat on the fc manifold that we sent them and the coating is cracking baddly. They offered to redo it for free and they were very helpful. They are in england and the manifold is in Cyprus, since the brexit it makes everything more difficult but it will happen at some point
as for the thickness being .015” on the swaintech, how much thicker do you think the inconel shielding is?
as for the E30s or other non rotary vehicles you mentioned its a completely different game when it comes to exhaust insulation
Glad I've removed my rubber steering joint cover. To be honest it pretty much removed itself. I was considering replacing it. Sorry you lost an FD.
Is white lighting actually Yttria stabilized Zirconia like Zercotec? There are a ton of scientific journals on it. It's used in F1 and the aerospace industry with very proven results. YSZ cracks, and then bridges those gaps becoming tougher with time. This would explain the stalactite type structures Carlos saw on his header, that I also have on mine. SwainTech says this is normal and isn't a failure, it's the material settling on the expansion of the base metal. Zercotec says the same, and claims 900c for a single coat, 1,400c for a dual coat. That is on the edge for rotary temps for a single coat. SwainTech claims ~1,640c with a disclaimer that it depends on the actual application.
I'm not saying it's a miracle or a substitute for a heat shield. I'm saying it's good with one, and is the most effective available coating out there. It's quite a bit cheaper than inconel shielding, can be used with inconel shielding, and the science behind it is solid. Just remember it's a 0.015" coating, there's only so much that can happen in a thin layer.
As for how it looks, even SwainTech says it looks **** after a while.
Last edited by mr2peak; 02-26-23 at 11:52 PM.
Reason: Zirconium to Zirconia
The GRM test doesn't seem to be controlling for variables well, and reducing the temperature of a hot exhaust manifold by 10 degrees F is not going to be helpful enough to make a difference. A better test would use a known amount of heat, and a good way to measure both the hot and cold side of the heat shield.
That said, I've had my mostly-stock FD's downpipe coated with Jet-Hot and wrapped with Thermotec fiberglass heat wrap for over 15 years and it has been much better than nothing. I agree that added layers of metal (and air gaps) like HeaderShield is probably even better. Using fiberglass wrap like Thermotec can be dangerous if it gets soaked in the various flammable liquids present in an engine bay (oil, fuel, power steering fluid, etc).
02-23-23, 02:12 PM
Ceramic Coating Exhaust
