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car not starting still... pfc? starter? short-circuit somewhere??

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Old 07-22-08, 10:12 PM
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car not starting still... pfc? starter? short-circuit somewhere??

so i disconnected my AC compressor and AC evaporator recently and the car will not turn over.

the starter cranks the car about 300rpm all day long, with no signs of the engine trying to turn.

i just noticed that my power fc reads -25deg for both trailing and leading. (battery is only at 10v right now since its slowly dying because car has sat for a week)
fsm says trail -20 and lead -5 is normal.

what should i check for? there was a sensor on the ac compressor that was cut (blue with a white (ground?) connector that went into the compressor.

none of the sensors on the pfc are reading out of range. so i am clueless on what is making the car not start

btw. it was driving fine before the compressor&evaporator behind the glove box was removed.

thanks for the help. i really need the car back up and running.
Old 07-23-08, 08:36 PM
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checked all wires near ecu, all connections are together, didnt take any off when removing the evaporator except the temp sensor that was in there. reconnected that as well.

there is a small black connection (1'pin')that isnt connected to anything, and i dont see any place for it to connect to, i think it connected to original ecu?

i took out the spark plugs, egi fuse/relay, fuel pump fuse/relay, and cranked car.
white/grey smoke came out of the holes. had a bit of gasoline on the plugs,

bought new plugs, waited for car to "unflood", retried with everything back in and starter ran up to 220rpm with no signs of turning over.

turned the key to on position and did not hear any sound from the fuelpump above and below tank (no carpet put ear up to panel).. how loud is the fuelpump supposed to be?

here are the pfc readings:
pim: 2.65v vta: 0.48v vta2: 1.15v vmop:1.23v
wtrt: 2.20v airt: 2.15v fuel: 3.75v o2s: .03v

things on: PWS NTR CAT HWL PAC CCN
additional things on during crank: STR FPD

readings when car is put into on position:
igj duty: 0.00% ignT LD -25 deg ign T Tr:-25deg batt volt: 11.3v
rev: 0 airt: 23c wt: 22c


readings when cranking: (peaks)
igj duty: 14.3% ignT LD: 9 deg ign T Tr: 3deg batt volt: 9-10v
rev: 220rpm airt: 23c wt: 22c

fuelpump bad?
Old 07-23-08, 09:10 PM
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did you use the diagnostic connector to check for fuel pump operation?
Old 07-23-08, 10:21 PM
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your battery voltage is is pretty low, charge the battery. check for fuel pressure by jumping the FP and GND terminals in your Diagnostic Box, and turn the key on it should power the fuel pump on... Next check for spark. If both are there, it could be the injectors, CAS signal, or no compression.
Old 07-24-08, 11:10 AM
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did you check for spark at all 4 plug wires? you can pull one at a time and stick a spare spark plug grounded somewhere close to test for spark. have someone crank the car for you so you can see. and to keep the car from flooding have them step on the gas pedal all the way so the injectors dont fire.
Old 07-24-08, 04:12 PM
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used wires for the F/P GND terminal. Fuel pump turned on.

will check for spark plug spark in a few minutes.
if i find gasoline on the plugs when i pull them out. that means the injectors are working too right?

would disconnecting the egi fuse and fuel pump relay effectively keep the car from flooding during testing as well?,

how would i check the CAS? i see the sensors connected.

thanks so far everyone.
Old 07-24-08, 05:17 PM
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I can hear my F/P prime after every cranking. Did you disconnect your CAS at any point? If so make shore you didn't bend any pins while reconnecting. The white connector goes on the higher/upper CAS, the grey one attaches to the lower. The Crank Angle Sensors are supposed to measure 0.95-1.25k ohms. Could be a bad relay. If your harness is fried and brittle you could have created a short by bumping something. worst case unlikely ECU.
To keep from flooding while testing I pull EGI and F/P fuse under dash.
make shore plug wires are well seated.
Could just be a heavy flood. Did you try the ATF trick?
Start in the area you was working in. FusesFuel, Ignition System, Compression
Old 07-24-08, 06:36 PM
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ok 2 hour update time...
removed spark plug, pulled f/p relay to prevent further flood.
spark came out even with a slowly dying battery (at 10.8v now) will get it charged up tonight and start fresh tomorrow morning testing the starter.

CAS was never disconnected. and the stock wiring in the bay looks brittle and most of the wires on the driver's side has a coat of what looks like a mix of ps fluid and oil... definitely stains my hands black

when cranking the spark holes go "psst psst pstt" steadily with puffs of white/grey smoke/clouds. maybe it was/still flooded. put my hand in cloud and it came back smelling like gas.

engine is old. sitting at 100,587miles stock engine & turbos. ran good with 12-10-12 boost.

spark. check.
fuel. check.
no disconnections in passenger floor.
power fc. set to initialization mode (slight tune saved in dataloggit)
compression seems right, no autoparts store is loaning testers, so i will pick up one tomorrow. $30 for a cheapolaro brand.

how do you test relays? $60 each is pretty pricey..

also, even if the fuel pump is on and working.. could there be a possibility of it needing to be replaced anyway?

thanks for all the heads up. will get on each area.
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