Firebirds come with a 3800 V6. You have to get the Formula, T/A or Firehawk to get the LS1.

 

To be perfectly accurate, the 5.7 liter aluminum block LS1 is found in the 1998-up V8 F-body (Camaro, Firebird), and 1997-up Y-body (Corvette), excluding the Z06 (LS6). The 6.0 liter iron block LS1 is found in '99-up GM C/K class pickups/SUVs.

But for all intents and purposes, the aluminum LS1 is classed as a 5.7 liter engine, and for most people, that's a "350" small block. A couple cubic inches really makes no difference.

My LS6...

 

Oh I've read his posts for quite some time now. Actually long before this forum was around. At first I thought it wasn't a good idea, and this stems way back to his initial thoughts of putting a 20B in it.

I don't know what post you read, and Jim's already responded so I don't need to argue the point. Please read up before you post, there is so much mis-information mixed in with the good info here!

I've since changed my mind, it is his car and he should do what he wants, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. I'm cheering for the car (and Jim) hoping that it'll be on the road again someday. The seats and carpet at least deserve another ride.

Later,
Jeff

 

Hey, Trev sold 'em to me fair and square long before you ended up with his car!

 

Anything could be fitted, you would destroy the character of the car though if it were not a Mazda Rotary engine.

Along with going slower and being heavier than the 13B, and well the list goes on. If you want to be different then do it I suppose.

I will stick with my 590bhp 13B that is totally streetable, get excellent fuel consumption, is VERY cheap, and goes alot longer than a n/a V8, V12 between rebuilds that is remotley the same weight as a 13B.

Choice is yours?

 

Why not just wait to buy a Renesis that makes about the same power n/a plus it lighter than the 13b. Torque is low, but thats nothing a custom turbo couldn't fix.

 

Another thought with in regard to the original subject matter.

This month or last month I was looking through mags at the local grocery store. One Hot Rod type mag had a absolutely bitchin' Charger with the Viper V-10 in it. The Charger is a very big car that fits a Hemi V-8 under the hood with no problems. The Viper V-10 required some "relocating" of the firewall.

Think about what that'll do to a FD. That said I've seen in person, with my own eyes a few V-8 VW bugs, one was even a 4x4.

Jeff

 

1st off, I wasn't talking about Jim's car being 50 lbs more... I'd be willing to bet that his will weigh in at a good deal less than a stock FD. I was talking about stock 13B vs stock LT1 based on Bill Hagen's LT1 (with AC & power steering). That said, I was incorrect - the difference is ~100lbs... even with that, my point still stands.

FYI: from Granny's Speed shop's Website:
Bill Hagen's '94, equipped with a Camaro LT1 (factory equipped with aluminum heads), T56 6spd, AC, PS, oil cooler, cast iron exhaust manifolds and catylitic converter weighs in at 2950lbs with a half tank of fuel, and 50lbs added to the spare tire well. The 50 lbs in the tire well brought the balance to a perfect 50/50 (1475 front / 1475 rear) weight distribution with the 1/2 tank of fuel. This car could also be trimmed out by simply filling up the fuel tank!

and to RICE RACING: I hope you're being sarcastic, if not, you're one of the most ignorant people I've ever seen post (on this thread). (Notice I said ignorant, not stupid - look it up if you don't know the difference). Everything in your post outside of the first sentence is wrong. The only reason the first sentence isn't wrong is because it's your opinion. I would LOVE to see a 590hp 13B that runs on pump gas and can be driven at all around town (or at least as easy as a V8 pushing that much power)....

edit: ok... deffinition of "engine" is a bit vague... I'm comparing what's under the hood of an FD stock vs an LT1 w/ accessories... I'd bet that the V8 block & pistons is much heavier than the 13B housings & rotors, but you don't run the 13B with just housings and rotors.

 

BrianK I would love to come over there and show you

Seriously I extend anyone the offer if ever in doubt come and see me if you are in this part of the world and spen half a day with me I will take you for a drive to the track that is located 1 hour from my place race around it, and drive back home on less than 30lt of fuel and do this again and again if need be to prove it too you, all on pump gas.

That is why I do not understand why you guys even consider doing a swap into these fantastic cars, you call me ignorant because you have not seen what can be done with these Engineering masterpieces.

I forgive you for your ignorance to what I see as normal everyday performance for me, love my rotary and always will, come and see me when you have a piston power rx7 that can beat a Ferrari F40 in accel and match it's top speed with the economy of a mid size passenger vehicle, that can do ALOT of miles before it needs rebuilding compared to similar powered n/a 350 for anything approaching the cost.

 

Remember that Rice lives in the land downunder. That is a world apart from the US. They know how to tune.

EDIT:

Plus rotary power is more plentiful there.

 

Hey hey hey so is this how it works is it RICE RACING??

I have to insult you for you to extend an offer of a ride in your car?

 

I only ask this.. if you put a piston engine in it will you please take off ALL emblems saying Mazda or RX-7. don't want to give our cars a bad name.
This still seems totally insane to me.. you may as well be asking which Honda emblems will fit your Rolls-Royce, Don't take something special and turn it into less than average.

 

This sentiment again.

Oh no! Don't remove the "soul" of the car!

And I don't see how a piston engine in someone else's FD, gives my FD a bad name.

Quit being so dramatic and get over it, its not your car.

 

Yes, but if you have the funds to stuff a prepped V10 or V12 in an FD, it won't take much more to try to create a 4 rotor that will fit in it.

I'm sure the actual 26BR found in the 787b is virtually unatainable, but there ARE people out there willing to custom make a 4 rotor with 3 spark plugs. Man. I wouldn't want to imagine how HOT that exhaust system will get

 

Does anyone now how the real 26B fires?

Are there two splits or do their fire together?

Also, what is the advantage of three plugs?

 

You get an Rx-7 for what it is.... If you want to go dropping engines in any old rolling chasis, then buy a kit car. Death to the man that pulls his Ren. out of an RX8 and drops in a cylinder engine.

 

Fast? I just made it faster... and more reliable.

It'd be interesting to conduct a poll to find out how many people against V8 conversions in FDs are actually FD owners. My guess is that the bulk of the objectors are non-owners, or owners of 1st and 2nd gen. cars who still see the FD as the pinnacle of Mazda's rotary sports car development efforts, their own personal version of the "Holy Grail". That's fine.

Those who own them, on the other hand, can be just as blind in their reverence, especially if they're new owners, but there is a select crowd who have lost an engine... or two... or more... who are completely sympathetic to an alternative method of keeping the car they like, yet making it as fast or faster, more reliable, and less expensive to modify.

A 2002 LS6 crate motor in an FD would run high 11s on street tires, sub-4.0 seconds 0-60, get 28-30 mpg on the highway, and run 100k+ miles without issue. More importantly, the weight of the RX-7, the steering characteristics, and the handling would not be affected in the slightest. Throw on a big brake kit and some sticky tires, and you'd have a hell of a track car, too.

Now consider what it'd do with a slightly larger cam and a set of ported heads...

If the 20B was plentiful, cheap, more reliable, and easy to slap in there in place of the 13B-REW, I doubt you'd have seen a V8 in an FD. I even went so far as buying one (a 20B) before discovering the side effects of the swap, the cost involved for an arguable increase in reliability, and the lack of ready-made parts for such a swap. I also got the shaft by one well-known rotary vendor/racer in my quest for a reasonably priced engine cradle. Pettit wants about $2,100 for theirs, by the way. The entire V8 conversion kit for an LS1, including the driveline, doesn't cost that much.

The lack of knowledgeable tuners and shops in my area made it nearly impossible for me to complete the project without some intervention by a distant source. If I'd know about Rob and Pineapple at the time, things might have been different. But I was fresh off being screwed on a brand new $6k engine by Hayes Rotary and my "rotary spirit" was at an all-time low. Not that I ever had much to begin with. I bought the car because it was fast, not because it had a rotary engine, or because I thought that made me special, in some inexplicable way... some of you cling to it as if it were the key to your identities.

So I started the "V8 in an FD" project, after long and careful thought. I planned the project like you might any project... laid out my goals and planned a way to acheive them. The answer isn't popular around here, but it is a viable and effective solution, and there are less enthusiastic, shall we say, FD owners who are benefitting from it.

You don't have to like it, but then again, it's not your car. No one is going to sneak in during the night and replace your rotary with a V8, so what do you have to worry about? A V8 rotary of any model year doesn't make your car any less valuable than it already is. So where's the legitimate concern over what someone else does to their own car? There isn't any. Not one rational or logical objection to the swap. The one I hear most often is that the intangible "soul" of the RX-7 is being violated... Soul? It's just a car. Get over it.

 

Hey Jim, w/ an ls1 and ls6 wouldn't you need a custom hood? i thought those were too tall to fit?

 

Not any longer... with a manual steering rack from an FC ('86-'87) you can gain enough clearance to fit an LSx engine under the stock hood.

 

Would that screw up the famed handling of the 7?

 

No, 60 lbs. less than an LT1 (with full accessories) located lower in the chassis won't screw up the handling.

 

i really wonder why mazda didn't design the 7 to easily accept the 20b they had to know this would be a popular conversion?

 

I have a hard time believing that the Viper V10 would be long enough to require firewll massaging on a Charger. Remember that the base engine for a Charger was the Slant Six, which is LONGER than the Viper engine. The only explanation would be that they wanted the engine's weight further back.

I think all the people who are vehemently anti-V8 swaps are simply closed-minded, and the mere thought that someone would want a dreaded piston engine (esp. one that has eight cylinders arranged in two banks of four) over the almighty rotary, is so cataclysmically upsetting to their worldview that they violently attack it.

Hey, as long as it's fast and makes cool noises, it's alright in my book I wonder how many of these Holy Rotors are the same people who recently complained about how awful rotaries sound? Heck I think the rotary sound is one of the best attributes, sounds like a chainsaw on crack.

 

Well, according to the article (PHR, May 2002) on the Charger "GTS"...

"After looking at every B- and E-Body that I could find, I soon realized that my 383 car was the best candidate." At the same time, his careful measurements brought the conclusion that the entire front suspension would have to go. That turned out to be a great realization, deciding to start with a clean sheet -- the tubeframe K-member in this car made it easier to build, stiffer, and much more unique.

"My friend, Brad Emmons, owns a chassis shop (Bossier City, Louisiana) and front-halves cars frequently, so he built a rack in which to set the engine and put the car in the exact position necessary without the front suspension in place," said Delaney. Emmons also figured out that the firewall would have to move. "I didn't care if I had to sit in the back seat -- I wanted that motor in that car."

The growing team for this buildup figured out that the V-10 from a Viper is so darn [long]* that you don't put the steering rack in front of the motor, you put it under the motor. After a few weeks spent mocking up a typical Mustang II rack, it was obvious that it didn't have enough travel for the turning radius that Delaney wanted. The solution was with stock car supplier BRT Racing Products, who built a custom rack with 7 inches of travel. Combined with a set of Magnum Force's adjustable upper and lower control arms, the front geometry was completed by fabricating a cradle to support and mount all of this stuff. The result was the perfect front suspension that was a cross between a stock car and a road racer, with double-adjustable, coilover Strange shocks to control bump, rebound, and ride height.


*The article states "tall", but if that were the case, you couldn't fit the rack under the engine, maintain ground clearance, and the stock hood profile, all of which they did. I'm assuming they meant to say "so darn long" as the picture below illustrates...