TooSlow

Hi guys,

I'm new to the forums and did some searching but didn't find specifically what I'm looking for. Here is the Q: If I rebuilt a 3rd gen for reliability, could I drive 20k a year if I kept up on maintenance? I drive fast but not hard (no track time, no burnouts) and have a 98 A4 2.8 Quattro for snow/etc. I can also work from home if it gets real nasty (I live in PA and we had VERY little snow this year). Anyway, if I get the car, I would drive it ALL of the time. I'm willing to put the money in to build an engine right, but what would you put in, and what would it cost me ballpark? I'm thinking of shelling out about 8-12k for a 3rd gen with bad engine/turbos, and approx. 4-5k to rebuild it right. Am I guessing right? I'm not a mechanic so I'd have to pay for the labor. I'd likely bring it to the rotary specialist in MD to get it done. Your input is much appreciated. If I missed anything, then ask away and I'll fill in the details.

Thanks,

Ray

ThirdGenRX7

take off the turbos and it'll last forever and a day plus 5 minutes

but why would you want to do that?

yes you could do that, the price might be more than 4-5k for extra parts + engine rebuild, but you can make it very reliable extra parts being radiator, aluminum ast, larger intercooler etc. etc.
Also what i'd do if i were you is buy a small single and replace the twins. Pretty expensive but will simplify the vacuum hose complications.

cavalon2001

If you are going to drive the car that much and it is in good shape when you start doing that...then you shouldn't have any problems, other than maint...BUT

To make the unmodified engine reliable, there are a few things you could do...

You could fix the airbox problem on the front of the car, install a beefy intercooler, and this is the most drastic: have the engine reassembled with 3mm Apex seals. You could also replace your lines and hoses with new high heat material.

I think the only big problem on a rotary that gets a lot of miles is overheating. The Turbos add more heat to an already hot engine; don't remove them, but make sure the engine is "warmed up" and "cooled down" when you drive it.


-CT

Bucrx7

I drove my car everyday for 2 years and the car had 89k miles. Car run fine, even in the hot days and I ran my car hard. But if you're going to get new engine/turbos then you might as well do the reliablity mods.

--I'll get a streetported motor and stay with the 2mm apex seals
--Upgrade your AST
--Boost gauge to see if you have the corect boost pattern 10-8-10
--Get rid of the precat with a downpipe and you'll notice a drastic change under the hood.
--Replace stock hose with silicon or viton if you decide to keep the twins.

You can also add a after market intake and upgraded radiator for more security, but with those above mods you should be fine. Just keep the car properly maintain and it should last for a VERY long time.

DamonB

My car had 66K on it when I purchased it in Nov of 2000. It now has 97K on it and is my daily driver along with doing more than 20 autox's last year (it will do that many again this year). That averages to 20,000 miles a year and about 100 hard launches from the starting line and the motor regularly seeing over 8000 rpm on race weekends.

Rule#1: maintain the car religously. Anything that needs repaired, changed, cleaned, etc do right away.

Rule#2: see above.

My car has stranded me once when a turbo coolant hose blew. I have since replaced every coolant and heater hose under the hood; only cost me about $60 from the dealer for all the hoses (except the radiator hoses, but I had already replaced those). I think everybody should include this with the "must do" mods like the downpipe and vac hoses. Some of the heater hoses were in bad shape.

The third gen certainly requires attention and I would not recommend it as a daily car for a non-mechanical person. If you stay committed to it's maintenance it can be driven daily with no problems at all as I can atest. Your idea of having a reputable company put in a new motor is a good one; use the opportunity to get everything under the hood in top shape. Other than that, plan on reaplcing all the bushings in the rear end. Every car I test drove needed the rear end done.

TooSlow

Okay, I made a list from your replies and also have a few questions at the bottom... the list is not in any specific order.

Minimum:

AST (removal?)
Replace hoses w/high temp
Boost guage
Precat

Optional but helpful:

Better radiator
Larger intercooler
Single turbo (see note below)
Airbox upgrade (K&N?)
Streetport
3mm Apex Seals (if rebuilding)

Seems like a very solid list. Qs I have:

1. Turbos - What about converting twins from sequential to "dual" (both running at same time)?
2. Knock sensor (unneccesary unless I mod?)
3. Turbo Timer - I should get one right?

Also, would anyone be willing to give me ballpark pricing on each one of these mods?

Thanks!

TooSlow

PS: Just wanted to add, I can do some work on cars (brakes, exhaust, tune-ups) and wouldn't mind trying simple to moderate upgrades and maintenance.

Bucrx7

If you can get your hands on the service manual you can start doing the work yourself. There are a lot of websites that has tons of infos and how to. The sites below are the ones that help me out most.

www.iluvmyrx7.com -- service manual, few how to
www.robrobinette.com -- GOOD SITE
www.scuderiaciriani.com -- GOOD SITE

AST -- GB going on now for $127
Hose job -- Labor + hoses $450-$500
Boost gauge -- Depends on brand of gauge, install is a piece of cake.
Downpipe -- $200 - $300 depending on brand and mild/stainless steel.
Radiator -- $375 for koyo, $450 Fluidyne
Intercooler -- stock mount - $850-$900, Front mount - $950 - $1300
K&N drop in filter -- $50 -- go with the APEXI $215 from rx7store.
Rebuild, port reinstall engine - $3500-$4000 from KD in your state.

If you convert to non-sequential turbos then you can skip the hose job. You do not need the knock sensor yet, the turbo timer is a debate, some said yes you need it and some said no. If you go easy before you reach your destination then the turbo should be cooled down enough.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i bought my fd 2 years ago and i put 20k miles on it.
it had 74k when i bought it. i did the dp and radiator, i replaced the ast with a new mazda one. i beat on it for 2 years and changed the oil maybe 4 times. it is even the original motor and vacuum lines, and both turbos still work

mike

amp

iTrader: (50)

no "building" required...
just maintenance and actual use of the power band imho

artguy

also...get second job...save money. youll need it.




heheh...I drove mine as a daily driver for two years...

rynberg

You don't need to go single for better reliability. That's ridiculous. Who's blown a motor because a vacuum hose split or cracked? Now, how many have blown an engine shortly after going single?

Since you want the car to be reliable, you should keep it as stock as possible. I would say avoid streetporting and 3mm seals. Who needs 3mm seals if you are staying stock (or even upgrading).

Do the hose job with viton tubing. Get an aluminum AST. Do all maintenance regularly. Get an upgraded radiator when your stock one starts dying. Let it warm up and cool down properly. Good luck.

7thHeaven

Sorry for the question but what functions does an aftermarket AST have? Does it make it easier for cooling purposes?

Also, where can I get Viton Hoses?

Thanks

amp

iTrader: (50)

oem AST has a tendency to split at the seams...

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i would recommend you get a radiator and a down pipe, everything else is optional

mike

TooSlow

Bucrx7, thanks for the post. The prices were helpful too.

Rynberg, I can see what you're saying regarding single. I was thinking of going non-sequential to eliminate some of the common boost problems. Also I was under the impression that 3mm seals were a good method of "overbuilding" the engine. Is that true?

To all, thanks for your replies. I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death, but your replies have helped a great deal to help me determine if I'm being realistic with my goals.

I could still use some more opinions on whether it is best to buy a running car and do reliability upgrades or if I should buy a car with blown engine/turbos and do a ground up reliability rebuild to the block and turbos. Either way, I would likely set a spending limit of 16k.

Thanks!

Forever22@msn.com

That is the big question, i almost bought a 7 with 85k mi with low compression. i decided to buy a low mi fd because of the following reasons; is it worth putting in lets just say 6k in new motor ,turbos clutch etc, into a car that has high mi. No way i did that with my 87 turbo. My engine went at 77k,i rebuilt it. At about 100k everything started to break, rx7s are high maint cars to begin with,high mi makes them much worse, not to mention resale, you will take a beating ala guys putting 30 k into their cars, then having to sell them for various reasons . my input is this save your $ and buy a good one the first time, in the long run you will be a lot happier, good luck

rotorbrain

3mm seals leave more wear marks on the housings. id stay away from them. unless you get ceramic ones of course. hehe. $$$$$$$$$

0piston

iTrader: (9)

2mm seals also have better sealing properties over 3mm. When rebuilding I would try to get some double springs, and some Hayes teflon coolant seals.

redrotorR1

Not really. If you're thinking about street or bridgeporting your engine in the future, it is something you want to consider because of the force you will be inducing on the seals. But, if your plans don't involve a single turbo, I'd say stick with the OEM 2mm apex seals. And if you do decide to go the big horsepower route, I've heard that the Hurley 3mm seals suck ***.

Try and find an FD that has already had the engine rebuilt or reman engine put in. Also look for the boost gauge, downpipe, AST, and radiator already done for you. Contrary to popular belief, upgrading your car with aftermarket parts actually de-values your car. Anyone trying to recoupe their losses on aftermarket parts is a scam artist.

Typical mileage for a 13B needing rebuild is around 80K miles .... if the owner has not done any of the reliability mods. Get a compression check done on the engine, before you commit to anything. You might want to check the turbos as well. Leaking oil or grooves on the compressor housing are indications of bad/needing-rebuild turbos. That's an extra $1200-3000 for rebuilding/new turbos. And expect to spend about $3-5K in the first year on just fixing random crap on the car. If you are going to keep the twin sequentials, I HIGHLY recommend going to the silicone vacuum hoses. It's very nice not having to worry about a hose popping off anymore. Good luck.

94touring

Do your normal reliablity mods as listed, radiator, ast, downpipe, hose job, ect..... The car will last a long time in stock form as long as you allow it to warm up properly, cool down properly, and obvioulsy do your normal maintanance. Regarding apex seals, stick with 2mm unless you have to upgrade to 3mm due to warped rotors. Not that there is anything wrong with 3mm, many people use them as well as myself, but they don't prevent blown engines. If you ever begin to upgrade you will learn that tuning is the key factor. Good luck, I hope you enjoy your car