BNR's (need anything else for this)
11-03-10, 02:23 PM
#26
I really have never understood the desire to go non sequential. You loose spool and on the stock sequential system your spooling booth turbos together by 4500 rpm anyway, I really don't see much advantage to going non-sequential unless its because you just want to rip out all the solenoids. That brings up another point. Is passing emissions an issue for you? If so going with an aftermarket rail and 1600cc secondaries presents some serious problems as most aftermarket rails will not fit with the ACV. I would leave the stock primaries bore out the secondaries to 1300cc and put them in the stock rail for now. When you have more money and want to shoot for higher horsepower like pushing them to 20 psi then upgrade and remove emissions.
Thats just simply not true. There is nothing stopping a single turbo set up from using the AC and power steering. Many people have done this. Not to mention the twins are much more of an oven under the hood then a single turbo is. I'm not really sure what your trying to imply with that last part, but a single frees up an immense amount of room in the engine bay.
Thats just simply not true. There is nothing stopping a single turbo set up from using the AC and power steering. Many people have done this. Not to mention the twins are much more of an oven under the hood then a single turbo is. I'm not really sure what your trying to imply with that last part, but a single frees up an immense amount of room in the engine bay.
11-03-10, 03:03 PM
#27
The op dosent seem like he wants to put alot of money into it
That's why I said go with twins nonseq sine it removes everything that a single dose and he don't have to spend extra money on down pipe , exhaust manifold , intercooler setup stuff like that
And you have to agree that seq setup is a bitch to work on lol even if you know how they work. And work on them
Emission is one part. But there's always a way.
The while ac part is just me being paranoid ..
That's why I said go with twins nonseq sine it removes everything that a single dose and he don't have to spend extra money on down pipe , exhaust manifold , intercooler setup stuff like that
And you have to agree that seq setup is a bitch to work on lol even if you know how they work. And work on them
Emission is one part. But there's always a way.
The while ac part is just me being paranoid ..
11-03-10, 03:25 PM
#28
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Im not wanting to spend a ton of money, no. Originally, i wanted to go with a good single setup but I realize thats going to costs me at least a couple thousand more. I also drove my buddies car with a 60-1 setup. I understand, its not as good as a gt35r for spoolup but it felt like nothing until around the 4700 rpm range. I loved the way my twins kicked in almost instantly, and i love the thought of hitting 400 hp with sequential twins. Sounds amazing! Not to mention, i really dont have a need for more than 400 hp. Not yet at least.
11-03-10, 03:53 PM
#30
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Im not wanting to spend a ton of money, no. Originally, i wanted to go with a good single setup but I realize thats going to costs me at least a couple thousand more. I also drove my buddies car with a 60-1 setup. I understand, its not as good as a gt35r for spoolup but it felt like nothing until around the 4700 rpm range. I loved the way my twins kicked in almost instantly, and i love the thought of hitting 400 hp with sequential twins. Sounds amazing! Not to mention, i really dont have a need for more than 400 hp. Not yet at least.
The oil smoking problem is old old news, the newest Stage 3s (which have been out for many years now) are brand new T28 turbos, and rock-solid reliable.
11-03-10, 04:38 PM
#31
Im not wanting to spend a ton of money, no. Originally, i wanted to go with a good single setup but I realize thats going to costs me at least a couple thousand more. I also drove my buddies car with a 60-1 setup. I understand, its not as good as a gt35r for spoolup but it felt like nothing until around the 4700 rpm range. I loved the way my twins kicked in almost instantly, and i love the thought of hitting 400 hp with sequential twins. Sounds amazing! Not to mention, i really dont have a need for more than 400 hp. Not yet at least.
hey it is fun let me tell you, but if i could do it all over again, i would go single and not waste my time/money.
i mean the stage 3s were a good experience but i wish i wasn't ignorant into keeping the twins.
less heat in the engine bay along with more room, sound of an open waste gate, easily get more power with less psi (depending on turbo)
i mean if you plan on going single and could wait a couple more months till you have the money for it, just go for it. but if your really into keeping the twins hey no one can stop you, im just talking from experiences, but who knows? you could get the stage 3 and want them forever,.
also its much more fun seq than it would be non seq.. yea you get more power out of non seq but i rather enjoy a proper working seq
they are a bit expensive but here are the 2000cc injectors. http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=63
11-03-10, 09:15 PM
#33
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Im not wanting to spend a ton of money, no. Originally, i wanted to go with a good single setup but I realize thats going to costs me at least a couple thousand more. I also drove my buddies car with a 60-1 setup. I understand, its not as good as a gt35r for spoolup but it felt like nothing until around the 4700 rpm range. I loved the way my twins kicked in almost instantly, and i love the thought of hitting 400 hp with sequential twins. Sounds amazing! Not to mention, i really dont have a need for more than 400 hp. Not yet at least.
You know my stance on BNR's, I love them to death when they are done right! That being said I'm really close to having my rebuild and single upgrade completed. I head down to the Hampton Roads fairly often, and once my build gets done I will be taking the FD down. When I do you're more than welcome to join me on some of the roads to see what you think.
Also, fwiw, the BNR Stage 3's for FD's cost ~$2,500 new, the A-spec kit I got/am getting costs less than $1,000 extra and it comes with all the bells and whistles.
Form an educated opinion based off of multiple experiences in different vehicles =) Don't let a singular experience create a bias
11-03-10, 11:19 PM
#34
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Lots of post to reply to. Lets see....
Mr. GoodfellaFD3S, I completely understand what your saying, and to be honest my friend is on his 3rd rx7 and still doesnt understand what im trying to teach him about premixing oil since his omp is removed. So im sure it has issues with the setup that he doesnt know about, nor I being that was the first rx I have ever been around and still to this day only the third. So not to many experiences. I have to say, I appreciate everyones opinion, but for me when my car was running with the stock twins on about 12 psi, the car was thrilling. Probably had around 300hp, i never had it dynoed or properly tuned other than remapping it for my mods but it was a blast to drive at that point. The car is completely going to be a weekend warrior type of car, but its not going to be a track car. I understand, and like the idea of going single, but I dont want to miss out on the thrill of the twins. I understand your car (rich) has about 500hp, thats a far cry difference from the 360-400 range im looking for, so the lag how ever so small it might be, isnt quite as relevant. You get to make up for it when the real powre kicks in
and what a ride that must be!
That being said, im still not closed off to the idea of a single turbo. I can get my car back on the road probably a year sooner with the twins than if i went single. The single kit I would want was about $3700 or somewhere in that range from A-spec in the end. Thats only 1600 more than the BNR's, but theres more hidden costs in there.
I will take my time, and make the best decision for me. Honestly, the only benefit I really see from the single turbo is the cooling efficiency, and simplification under the hood. I plan on running AI which I would think would help, not cure but help the cooling issues with the twins.
I also like hearing that the t28 twins are bulletproof. Sounds good to me.
Mr. GoodfellaFD3S, I completely understand what your saying, and to be honest my friend is on his 3rd rx7 and still doesnt understand what im trying to teach him about premixing oil since his omp is removed. So im sure it has issues with the setup that he doesnt know about, nor I being that was the first rx I have ever been around and still to this day only the third. So not to many experiences. I have to say, I appreciate everyones opinion, but for me when my car was running with the stock twins on about 12 psi, the car was thrilling. Probably had around 300hp, i never had it dynoed or properly tuned other than remapping it for my mods but it was a blast to drive at that point. The car is completely going to be a weekend warrior type of car, but its not going to be a track car. I understand, and like the idea of going single, but I dont want to miss out on the thrill of the twins. I understand your car (rich) has about 500hp, thats a far cry difference from the 360-400 range im looking for, so the lag how ever so small it might be, isnt quite as relevant. You get to make up for it when the real powre kicks in
and what a ride that must be! That being said, im still not closed off to the idea of a single turbo. I can get my car back on the road probably a year sooner with the twins than if i went single. The single kit I would want was about $3700 or somewhere in that range from A-spec in the end. Thats only 1600 more than the BNR's, but theres more hidden costs in there.
I will take my time, and make the best decision for me. Honestly, the only benefit I really see from the single turbo is the cooling efficiency, and simplification under the hood. I plan on running AI which I would think would help, not cure but help the cooling issues with the twins.
I also like hearing that the t28 twins are bulletproof. Sounds good to me.
11-03-10, 11:25 PM
#35
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I have to agree with Rich on this one.
You know my stance on BNR's, I love them to death when they are done right! That being said I'm really close to having my rebuild and single upgrade completed. I head down to the Hampton Roads fairly often, and once my build gets done I will be taking the FD down. When I do you're more than welcome to join me on some of the roads to see what you think.
Also, fwiw, the BNR Stage 3's for FD's cost ~$2,500 new, the A-spec kit I got/am getting costs less than $1,000 extra and it comes with all the bells and whistles.
Form an educated opinion based off of multiple experiences in different vehicles =) Don't let a singular experience create a bias
You know my stance on BNR's, I love them to death when they are done right! That being said I'm really close to having my rebuild and single upgrade completed. I head down to the Hampton Roads fairly often, and once my build gets done I will be taking the FD down. When I do you're more than welcome to join me on some of the roads to see what you think.
Also, fwiw, the BNR Stage 3's for FD's cost ~$2,500 new, the A-spec kit I got/am getting costs less than $1,000 extra and it comes with all the bells and whistles.
Form an educated opinion based off of multiple experiences in different vehicles =) Don't let a singular experience create a bias
Also, you can get the bnrs for $2100 now.
11-04-10, 01:54 AM
#36
here is the link for injectors
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com --they know what you will need and they will flow match
the injectors for you
if you go with this or any other top feed injectors and stock primary rail you will also need kgparts fuel rail with bunjo bolt to work with stock primary rail
as far as 6an fuel lines, high flow filter and FPR (Aeromotive A1000-6), i get my stuff from JEGS.com http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/13109/10002/-1
ik that you got your mind made up about the intercooler but just think about this
PFS and pettit intercoolers will still be inside hot engine bay
fmic and v-mount are much better as they got alot more air going to them
if you still go with pettit and you can do your own piping - you can buy that same intercooler (core dimensions 12" x 17 or 18" )on ebay without pettit racing sticker on it for 150$ and just buy the Cool Charge III Duct for 195$ from pettit that will save you some $$$
or if you are going to spend over 1000$ on intercooler go with something good i recommend Blitz for twins....check out the link under and you will see why...
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009...ups-mazda.aspx
400rwhp sequential or non is asking for way to much you better have one monster street port or bridge port or semi p port...108 octane or e85 some large injectors and its pointless really you would be pushing the turbo to its limits and that's not good...for that power reliably you should go single t04z or a bit bigger gt35r
360rwhp is more realistic at around 17psi trust me that's plenty fast
and after reading your post i think that's what you are looking for
as you all ready got supra pump i think you should just go for 850cc in primary fuel rail that should get you close to 360rwhp...and its cost friendly
just upgrade the fuel lines and fuel filter and eliminate pulsation damper...and get all injectors cleaned and flow tested before install
to get you turbo spooling really fast remove the cats or resonated mid pipe...
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com --they know what you will need and they will flow match
the injectors for you
if you go with this or any other top feed injectors and stock primary rail you will also need kgparts fuel rail with bunjo bolt to work with stock primary rail
as far as 6an fuel lines, high flow filter and FPR (Aeromotive A1000-6), i get my stuff from JEGS.com http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/13109/10002/-1
ik that you got your mind made up about the intercooler but just think about this
PFS and pettit intercoolers will still be inside hot engine bay
fmic and v-mount are much better as they got alot more air going to them
if you still go with pettit and you can do your own piping - you can buy that same intercooler (core dimensions 12" x 17 or 18" )on ebay without pettit racing sticker on it for 150$ and just buy the Cool Charge III Duct for 195$ from pettit that will save you some $$$
or if you are going to spend over 1000$ on intercooler go with something good i recommend Blitz for twins....check out the link under and you will see why...
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009...ups-mazda.aspx
400rwhp sequential or non is asking for way to much you better have one monster street port or bridge port or semi p port...108 octane or e85 some large injectors and its pointless really you would be pushing the turbo to its limits and that's not good...for that power reliably you should go single t04z or a bit bigger gt35r
360rwhp is more realistic at around 17psi trust me that's plenty fast
and after reading your post i think that's what you are looking for
as you all ready got supra pump i think you should just go for 850cc in primary fuel rail that should get you close to 360rwhp...and its cost friendly
just upgrade the fuel lines and fuel filter and eliminate pulsation damper...and get all injectors cleaned and flow tested before install
to get you turbo spooling really fast remove the cats or resonated mid pipe...
11-04-10, 02:08 AM
#37
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Thanks for the links, im looking into the stuff. I dont neccesarily have my mind made up for the pettit intercooler. Does anyone have any data supporting that the ebay intercoolers provide the same cooling as the pettit coor?
I already have a downpipe, high flow cat combo.
Yall are all giving me so much to think about, really hard to keep my mind made up. Also after reading more threads on doing a simplified sequential setup using aftermarket solenoids im starting to get a little disgruntled at the thought of all the trouble setting everything up. I remember the last time i did a vacuum hose job. It was miserable.
I already have a downpipe, high flow cat combo.
Yall are all giving me so much to think about, really hard to keep my mind made up. Also after reading more threads on doing a simplified sequential setup using aftermarket solenoids im starting to get a little disgruntled at the thought of all the trouble setting everything up. I remember the last time i did a vacuum hose job. It was miserable.
11-04-10, 08:07 AM
#40
400rwhp sequential or non is asking for way to much you better have one monster street port or bridge port or semi p port...108 octane or e85 some large injectors and its pointless really you would be pushing the turbo to its limits and that's not good...for that power reliably you should go single t04z or a bit bigger gt35r
Hey Rich!
Great video! The car is absolutely beautiful. Performs well, looks good, what else would you want out of a driven street car??? 421 is a good feat especially with hybrid twins. I know we can squeeze a few more HP out of them just by doing a few more things the the exhaust manifolds. I think atleast 430-440 RWHP is attainable, but the more people that get these turbos and push them, the more numbers you will see
. These turbos at 17-17.5 psi will get down 420's RWHP with the right mods. Been done a few cars. Cant wait for a few sequential guys to break 400 RWHP. That I think is an ideal set up if everything works properly with all the seq stuff.
Gotta love 400 plus twins! You push the boost, you make numbers if you tune the cars properly...
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193
www.BNRturbos.com
Great video! The car is absolutely beautiful. Performs well, looks good, what else would you want out of a driven street car??? 421 is a good feat especially with hybrid twins. I know we can squeeze a few more HP out of them just by doing a few more things the the exhaust manifolds. I think atleast 430-440 RWHP is attainable, but the more people that get these turbos and push them, the more numbers you will see
. These turbos at 17-17.5 psi will get down 420's RWHP with the right mods. Been done a few cars. Cant wait for a few sequential guys to break 400 RWHP. That I think is an ideal set up if everything works properly with all the seq stuff.Gotta love 400 plus twins! You push the boost, you make numbers if you tune the cars properly...
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193
www.BNRturbos.com
11-04-10, 08:12 AM
#41
Thanks for the links, im looking into the stuff. I dont neccesarily have my mind made up for the pettit intercooler. Does anyone have any data supporting that the ebay intercoolers provide the same cooling as the pettit coor?
I already have a downpipe, high flow cat combo.
Yall are all giving me so much to think about, really hard to keep my mind made up. Also after reading more threads on doing a simplified sequential setup using aftermarket solenoids im starting to get a little disgruntled at the thought of all the trouble setting everything up. I remember the last time i did a vacuum hose job. It was miserable.
I already have a downpipe, high flow cat combo.
Yall are all giving me so much to think about, really hard to keep my mind made up. Also after reading more threads on doing a simplified sequential setup using aftermarket solenoids im starting to get a little disgruntled at the thought of all the trouble setting everything up. I remember the last time i did a vacuum hose job. It was miserable.
11-04-10, 11:13 AM
#42
fd3s with over 400RWHP on sequential setup i don't see to many of those around
but i have see non sequential with 400rwhp
ik bunch off people got BNR how many of them are actually pushing 400RWHP on 91 or 93 octan sequential i would like to know...
all i am saying 360rwhp is more realistic and it can be done with 4x8500cc injectors
just giving him a cost friendlier advice
all he really needs to do is just drop them 850cc injectors in have the car tuned and be driving it by the summer
but i have see non sequential with 400rwhp
ik bunch off people got BNR how many of them are actually pushing 400RWHP on 91 or 93 octan sequential i would like to know...
all i am saying 360rwhp is more realistic and it can be done with 4x8500cc injectors
just giving him a cost friendlier advice
all he really needs to do is just drop them 850cc injectors in have the car tuned and be driving it by the summer
02-04-11, 10:57 PM
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I read every post and now is time for my 2cents.
If you still have your factory twins and cost is an issue just have BNR rebuild them for $1000. My friend had 12psi on stock twins like you and pulled off over 300whp on a somewhat conservative dyno. Pettit in florida runs BNR's on there track car and run 400whp all day on the track and have told me 350whp is no problem with the factory fuel system. (by the way the pettit intercooler now has an auxilary fan on the back side included on the sale price). I have ridden in 60series turbo rx7s and they are really fast after 2000rpm but they take a lot more effort to build and you will have to run a computer right away.
Im currently running 10psi on my BNRs, intake, streetport, koyo radiator, downpipe, factory cat, racing beat exhaust and that pettit bov you like. Its a good amount of power for a weekend warrior. Also when you have a problem with the system its a lot easier to fix since its oem and know where to look when youve got a problem. good luck
p.s. if you think about running a fmic you should know it will hurt your spool since your not running a ball bearing turbo and the thrust bearings already are slower.
If you still have your factory twins and cost is an issue just have BNR rebuild them for $1000. My friend had 12psi on stock twins like you and pulled off over 300whp on a somewhat conservative dyno. Pettit in florida runs BNR's on there track car and run 400whp all day on the track and have told me 350whp is no problem with the factory fuel system. (by the way the pettit intercooler now has an auxilary fan on the back side included on the sale price). I have ridden in 60series turbo rx7s and they are really fast after 2000rpm but they take a lot more effort to build and you will have to run a computer right away.
Im currently running 10psi on my BNRs, intake, streetport, koyo radiator, downpipe, factory cat, racing beat exhaust and that pettit bov you like. Its a good amount of power for a weekend warrior. Also when you have a problem with the system its a lot easier to fix since its oem and know where to look when youve got a problem. good luck
p.s. if you think about running a fmic you should know it will hurt your spool since your not running a ball bearing turbo and the thrust bearings already are slower.
Last edited by NW Rx7; 02-04-11 at 11:00 PM.
02-04-11, 11:13 PM
#45
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I read every post and now is time for my 2cents.
If you still have your factory twins and cost is an issue just have BNR rebuild them for $1000. My friend had 12psi on stock twins like you and pulled off over 300whp on a somewhat conservative dyno. Pettit in florida runs BNR's on there track car and run 400whp all day on the track and have told me 350whp is no problem with the factory fuel system. (by the way the pettit intercooler now has an auxilary fan on the back side included on the sale price). I have ridden in 60series turbo rx7s and they are really fast after 2000rpm but they take a lot more effort to build and you will have to run a computer right away.
Im currently running 10psi on my BNRs, intake, streetport, koyo radiator, downpipe, factory cat, racing beat exhaust and that pettit bov you like. Its a good amount of power for a weekend warrior. Also when you have a problem with the system its a lot easier to fix since its oem and know where to look when youve got a problem. good luck
p.s. if you think about running a fmic you should know it will hurt your spool since your not running a ball bearing turbo and the thrust bearings already are slower.
If you still have your factory twins and cost is an issue just have BNR rebuild them for $1000. My friend had 12psi on stock twins like you and pulled off over 300whp on a somewhat conservative dyno. Pettit in florida runs BNR's on there track car and run 400whp all day on the track and have told me 350whp is no problem with the factory fuel system. (by the way the pettit intercooler now has an auxilary fan on the back side included on the sale price). I have ridden in 60series turbo rx7s and they are really fast after 2000rpm but they take a lot more effort to build and you will have to run a computer right away.
Im currently running 10psi on my BNRs, intake, streetport, koyo radiator, downpipe, factory cat, racing beat exhaust and that pettit bov you like. Its a good amount of power for a weekend warrior. Also when you have a problem with the system its a lot easier to fix since its oem and know where to look when youve got a problem. good luck
p.s. if you think about running a fmic you should know it will hurt your spool since your not running a ball bearing turbo and the thrust bearings already are slower.
I'll have to disagree with problems with the OEM system..... in general, single turbo cars don't even have boost problems, period. Seq twins have nothing but problems.
Last thing, can you elaborate more on the relationship between a FMIC and the turbo bearings?
02-05-11, 01:16 PM
#46
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ive seen quite a few single turbo rx's that just run like poop. not saying they all run like that of course, but I think for the route hes going an oem style system will yield less issues. I would of loved to have gone single turbo for big hp, but its not cost effective when your on a budget. ill just buy another one later so i can have the best of both worlds.
about the turbo/intercooler. When you install a fmic it will hurt your spool, but it wont matter if youve got a nice bb turbo. If your runnin the thrust bearing you wanna help your spool as much as possible i.e. smic. did i answer your question?
about the turbo/intercooler. When you install a fmic it will hurt your spool, but it wont matter if youve got a nice bb turbo. If your runnin the thrust bearing you wanna help your spool as much as possible i.e. smic. did i answer your question?
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