$6k??? good lord, your only looking at around $2800. You've already got everything else.

 

Either Way with BNR's you're hollowing out the stock compressor / inducer houseing, and are reducing the amount of structual rigidity, and heat discipation ability on the exhaust side... Why take something that's meant to do one job, and foce it to do another ?

I was contimplating getting '99 spec twins, and then maybe sending them to BNR... when it's all said and done... you're still talking 2.5-3k + to make it all work...

My Choice was a Garrett GT35-40R Ball bearing turbo, with ported motor spools up faster than twins in Non-Sequential Mode... and maybe 200-300 rpm's slower than Non Seq. without the power surge at the most inoppertune times :0

Check out the single turbo forum for good info on T04R and spool up vs stock... as well as oodles of Dyno Sheets.... The R85 turbos are getting quite some attention as well...

-DC

 

Wow...this sure turned into an interesting thread. I really think that until someone gets their car up and running 100% (or as close to that as is possible in an FD hehe) and tunes it w/ the new BNRs, we're simply going to be going back and forth. Rich's word against Matty's doubts. So as far as I'm concerned, right now it's just a waiting game on some concrete #s.

I do, however, truly believe that the new BNRs are def. much more capable than the stockers, given both the compressor AND exhaust wheels were upgraded. More torque is always a plus, and it'll obviously translate to more hp. Plus, I know Bryan said these twins are good for 20 - 22 psi reliabily. We all know the stockers are pushing it at 15psi reliabily. So that's another thing to keep in mind, cuz to me, it's not about how much power you can MAKE...it's how much power you can make RELIABLY. I'm sure I can run high 11s at 18psi on my stockers...for like 3 passes LOL

Oh and Matty...
Hey!! I resent that! No need to get personal!

 

i agree fd newbie.

Hey Ernie i was thinking turbo kits were more along the lines of 3500 then i would probably need more fuel then the 1300s that i have. my engine isnt ported, etc... How is a stock ported motor with a single? seems everyone has their motor ported.

I would rather go gt 35/40 (remeber nocabs car, didnt he run that setup) but i was thinking it was going to cost double the money of the bnr's. What do u think?

 

Devinci sells one for like $2,100 or something like that. 1300's would be fine for moderate boost, you could upgrade the primaries as well if you want. Ernie knows all about stock ported motors because he ran 10's on one. Stock ports are more than capable.

 

I think we should get brian from brn himself on here and see what kind of hard facts he has so far!

 

Brian is already on the forum (FEARED7):

https://www.rx7club.com/members/feared7-3382/

However he rarely, if ever, posts. Basically, you are just going to have to wait for the dyno sheets of the guys who have bought them.

 

what kind of setup is he runnig on his fd?

 

Pretty sure it is a big single, lol. He is looking to make big power out of the car on race gas, and that is not the intent of the upgraded twins.

I am STILL waiting for someone with stock twins to make a timed 40 to 140 mph sprint. Cmon guys, it shouldnt take you too long.....anyone, anyone........

Rich

 

My dad did a timed 20-120 in his FD, did it in 10.5 seconds. Of course...he has 5.7 liters under the hood. lol I did the 40-140 once in my FD, took my about 15.5-16 seconds. Mods are in the sig...I was running about 14psi.

 

An interesting race I just had that is relevant to this thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...56#post3881056

 

w/o some sort of data loggin application i would think it would be pretty difficult to get an accurate time. Sure a stop watch would work but it would be so easy to screw up .5 seconds. I really dont think it would be too scientific. Besides we already have a means to compare....1/4 times and dyno sheets. Stock turbos get you 115mph - 120mph traps and 340-380rwhp. Now we just need to see what the bnrs do.....right?

What i am really wondering is...does the price go up if guys start to making 400 plus and running 125 mph traps. Now that will suck.

 

That is a nice tread have you ran the 1/4 mile?

 

Nope. Winter time here in NJ. I hope to when I get the chance. At 13 psi I am not even touching the capabilities of these turbos, anyway. Need to get tuned for more boost, which should happen this week.

Rich

 

That would be a waste because there isnt one thing is those 99 specs that he would use. They are the same as the 93-95 turbos.


Guys, I know I've said this a lot of times but I keep reading more and more comments that make me feel like your in the mindset of comparing these turbos to the stock turbos. These are NOT stock turbos, there is not even one part in these turbos that is shared with any Hitachi / Mazda turbo. Nothing at all. The reason these turbos can take so much more boost is because the shafts are about 50% thicker than stock, the turbo is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more beefy than the stock turbos. These are brand new aftermarket turbos that are mearly adapted to our housings so they will bolt up. They share nothing in common with out stock twins.

I keep hearing comments about the stock twins are good for this boost or that boost. That has ABSOLUTLY NO correlation with these turbos. None at all. What makes a turbo good for a specific pressure or rpm is the parts that are in it. These turbos dont even share one part. The only reason that they are probably going to cut off at 420rw is because of the stock exhaust manifold that we are mounting them to. If it wasnt for that they should be good for over 500rwhp at around 25psi of boost.

Believe me when I say they are absolutly nothing like the twins and they dont share any of the same weaknesses that the twins had. These turbos are designed to be run hard, everything form the turbine shaft to the bearing housing is about 50% more beefy than the stockers. These turbos will spin a lot more rpms than the stockers and not even break a sweat. They also dont have all those junk seals like all the Mazda/Hitachi turbos do.

Stephen

 

Dare I ask if the BNR's have a slight more lag than the stock ones, if their completly diferent turbos.

 

I have no idea, mine arent running yet. The bearing design is supposed to be MUCH better so even though they have more durable parts they should spin better. Ask Goodfella or Agentspeed. They are both tunning them in non seq (you can run seq if you want) but my understanding is they are very responsive.

 

The problem is this thread has discussions about the old and new BNR's. People haven't been very clear when posting about which set they are referring to...

I think everyone understands that the NEW BNR's are a completely different set of turbos. However, without any hard performance information for people to see other than "my car pulls faster than anyone else from 40-140", people are still going to question them.

 

For the love of God, thank you Stephen. I am about to lose my mind over all this, lol.

Guys, there is a low boost dyno sheet, which yielded pretty good #s under less than ideal conditions. The race against the mustang in the kills section also gives a pretty good indication of abilities----hanging within 1 car length of a car trapping ~120 mph, this at 13 psi. For right now, that is it unfortunately. More to come soon

I know a thing or two about the stock ht12s. I ran them on my car for 95k miles. my dad has a fairly fresh set on his R1, which i still drive occasionally. I have driven many customer's and friends cars with them, prolly around 20 or so. They're not bad turbos, but most of them out there are old, tired and leaky. Try and rebuild them, and you are looking at another turbo r&r soon b/c of a multitude of reasons--absence of new parts chief among them. they aren't reliably rebuildable. So you can either go efini twins if you are happy with stock twin like power, or go single if you want race gas monster power levels. If you want a 93 octane street car that pushes the envelope as far as boost or rwhp, you may want to look to these BNRs.

 

Well, mine are non-seq for simplicity's sake. They are not as laggy as stock non-seq.

I think these turbos would be pretty insane set up sequentially. I kind of regret ripping out all of my sequential stuff yrs ago, lol.....

Rich

 

Hey Rich I am still interested in why you went parallel instead of sequential....the nice broad torque curve or the faster-rising HP curve, but I can now see from your post that you are missing your original stock bits.

If your car was stock before you got the BNRs (hypothetically) would you have stayed sequential?

Personally, I love the seq system (despite the agony of diagnosing problems) and if I got these BNRs I would need a lot of arm twisting to go non-seq.

 

Rich, they spool faster than stockers run non-seq?? Wow...I'd think larger wheels would require longer spool-up?

Yea...but you'd have some power loss since they'd be using internal wastegates, right? Sequentially, you're prob lookin at about 400rwhp max (again, due to the stock manifold), yes?

 

Honestly, I got sick of pulling the motor and working on the car with all of that seq stuff. I never really had any problems with the seq setup, mainly went to it for the simplicity. Strictly from a fun-to-drive standpoint, I would recommend staying seq. On the street I miss that 3k to 4k power occasionally, but when road racing, drag racing, and when she is on full boil I love the simplicity and predictability of the non-seq. My best bud alan has the old style bnr3s run seq and I absolutely loved driving his car. spool up was insane, pulled like a freight train. I was jealous for a bit, until he had boost problems 3 days later, lol.

 

how much of an improvement in airflow are we talking here? do you guys belive they will work in a fp/exhaust/intake/profec /pettit ecu set up running less than 14 psi. rich what kind of low boost are you able to hold? does it creep at 13psi?

 

Happy New Year.

I was informed of this thread from a friend and thought I would chime in and give some detailed information about the new BNR Stage III's. You guys probably won't see me post very often currently b/c our workload is very high, but I will try and answer your questions over the telephone. If I don't answer your questions through this post, email or phone me.

The Stage III's are 100% new CHRA's (Center Housing Rotating Assemblies). The new CHRA's are fitted to the factory end housings.

The Turbine shafts we are using are way thicker than stock and handle a lot more stress without bending, or breaking. The casting of the turbine wheel is thicker than stock, this helps in cases of broken apex seal passing through. The thicker the material, the more strength there is. Along with the thicker casting, there are more blades on the turbine wheels. The more blades you have, the more leverage you have to push the larger, more efficient compressor wheels. The inducer and exducer measurements are noticibly larger in diameter over stock. Another good thing about the shafts are the threads for the shaft nuts are left hand thread. Being left hand thread it eliminates the chances of shaft nuts coming off at higher boost levels causing detrimental damage to the turbocharger itself and possibly the engine if cases are bad enough. Stock shafts are right hand thread. They shoot off really easy if the boost is up there. Enough about the shafts .

The thrust bearings that come standard in the BNR Stage III's are 360 degree thrust bearings. This ensures proper lubrication for those who push lots of boost and turbo RPM. The stock thrust bearings are 270 degrees. The 270 bearing doesn't have the lubrication properties that a 360 bearing does. The more RPM the rotating assembly spins or the higher the boost level, the more oil the thrust section of the turbo needs to recieve. The stock 270 bearing has 90 degrees where oil doesn't cover on the rotating assembly, and the oil drains naturally through that 90 degree gap. For a lot of boost, you need that oil to constantly lubricate the thrust section on the turbo instead of draining away from the rotating assembly. The only gap the oil can go through on the 360 thrust bearing is the .002" gap between the thrust collar and the thrust bearing.

The comrpessor wheels flow 38 lbs/min each.

The turbine and compressor housings are fitted to the new CHRA's. Wastegate is ported for more flow, Wastegate actuator is made adjustable so you can mechanically change base boost settings. And when you send your Y pipe, it is cleaned up and modified to fit the new twins. There is a lot that I have to do to these twins to make them work. I may be missing a few things but if you have more questions, please let me know.

The HP capabilites are going to be equal or greater than the previous set of stage 3's. Not only will they perform, they are reliable! The stock CHRA's are unreliable and UNREBUILDABLE.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193
BNRsupercars@aol.com