bnr stage 3 ?'s
07-24-03, 03:24 AM
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bnr stage 3 ?'s
I am strongly looking into the controversial stage 3 bnr's. While looking through several forums tonight I saw one that said they couldn't be boosted past 17 PSI. I have one goal in mind, 400RWHP that's it. I know I have seen a couple ppl use the stock twins to hit that number, so what kinda power would bnr's at 17PSI be capable of? Also, what is a good amount of injectors to think about? 2 850cc 2 1300cc? Is there anyway to just have 1 1600cc? I am doing the whole fuel system within the next month of so, and I want to do my twins in a couple months. What are everyone's thoughts on running non seq with a non ported motor? And I know there are a lot of different fuel pumps out there, nippondenso, RP, supraTT which might even the the nippon, but yeah, with my goal, what would you guys recommend for me?
07-24-03, 05:52 AM
#2
Go single, these have so many issues. Mine were just taken off due to oil leaks .For as many people that praise these there plenty that have been stung bye there claims .HP is a bit lower then advertised and hes still tweaking these .If you have the cash to pull, them in and out go for it
.Oh I had 850 primary and 1300 secondary, put 320 rw on the dyno, then one month later oil is venting out my bov, and into my intercooler .Turbo seals are gone
.Oh I had 850 primary and 1300 secondary, put 320 rw on the dyno, then one month later oil is venting out my bov, and into my intercooler .Turbo seals are gone
07-24-03, 07:51 AM
#3
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally posted by Nuvolari
Go single, these have so many issues. Mine were just taken off due to oil leaks .For as many people that praise these there plenty that have been stung bye there claims .HP is a bit lower then advertised and hes still tweaking these .If you have the cash to pull, them in and out go for it
.Oh I had 850 primary and 1300 secondary, put 320 rw on the dyno, then one month later oil is venting out my bov, and into my intercooler .Turbo seals are gone
Go single, these have so many issues. Mine were just taken off due to oil leaks .For as many people that praise these there plenty that have been stung bye there claims .HP is a bit lower then advertised and hes still tweaking these .If you have the cash to pull, them in and out go for it
.Oh I had 850 primary and 1300 secondary, put 320 rw on the dyno, then one month later oil is venting out my bov, and into my intercooler .Turbo seals are gone
One note...just cause one person got 412rwhp and another got 376 or something really doesnt mean much. Tuning means alot!
07-24-03, 10:06 AM
#4
Re: bnr stage 3 ?'s
Originally posted by DeepInTheGame
I am strongly looking into the controversial stage 3 bnr's. While looking through several forums tonight I saw one that said they couldn't be boosted past 17 PSI. I have one goal in mind, 400RWHP that's it. I know I have seen a couple ppl use the stock twins to hit that number, so what kinda power would bnr's at 17PSI be capable of? Also, what is a good amount of injectors to think about? 2 850cc 2 1300cc? Is there anyway to just have 1 1600cc? I am doing the whole fuel system within the next month of so, and I want to do my twins in a couple months. What are everyone's thoughts on running non seq with a non ported motor? And I know there are a lot of different fuel pumps out there, nippondenso, RP, supraTT which might even the the nippon, but yeah, with my goal, what would you guys recommend for me?
I am strongly looking into the controversial stage 3 bnr's. While looking through several forums tonight I saw one that said they couldn't be boosted past 17 PSI. I have one goal in mind, 400RWHP that's it. I know I have seen a couple ppl use the stock twins to hit that number, so what kinda power would bnr's at 17PSI be capable of? Also, what is a good amount of injectors to think about? 2 850cc 2 1300cc? Is there anyway to just have 1 1600cc? I am doing the whole fuel system within the next month of so, and I want to do my twins in a couple months. What are everyone's thoughts on running non seq with a non ported motor? And I know there are a lot of different fuel pumps out there, nippondenso, RP, supraTT which might even the the nippon, but yeah, with my goal, what would you guys recommend for me?
As far as a ported motor or not, if you are staying with twin turbos you'll make more power with a ported motor. With a single turbo, you can gererate good HP just fine with the stock ports (search for "ErnieT", running stock ports with a single turbo and his 10 second 1/4 mile pass).
As for fuel pumps, and fuel system upgrades in general, read Wade's site:
http://www.newwave.net/~flanham/wlanham/
It has enough information that you can make an informed decision on what best will suit your goals.
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07-24-03, 11:50 AM
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The numbers they claim are backed by dyno numbers. If you go to the RX7store and look up the stage 3's there is a link at the bottom of the page for a dyno sheet. It was done at 1.14 on the PFC. Like pointed out before its all in the tuning and porting just like any other turbo kit you buy. You get a T78 and just slap it on and dont tune it your not going to make power. The BNR's are no different.
And the only problem with them as far as I know is they were getting 2 much oil which was caused by not enough oil feed restriction. This was basically causing them to fill up with oil. They are in the process of getting a restrictor pill in the correct size and sending it out to everyone. And for the people out there that had that problem, you dont have to pull the turbos off to replace a restrictor pill.
As for the mods list you are looking for, to hit 400rwhp 1300's and a Walbro pump, SMIC, PFC, and all the other normal upgrades. Also you need to budget $500 for tuning no matter if thats you spending $500 on a wideband to tune it yourself or spending $500 on a tuner. As for what turbo, thats just up to you. I hit over 400rwhp with my stage 3's and to be honest other than a good tuner dont have anything abnormal done to my car. I'd say if your goal is 400rwhp some stage 3's or a nice single like the GT35/40 would do good.
Good Luck,
And the only problem with them as far as I know is they were getting 2 much oil which was caused by not enough oil feed restriction. This was basically causing them to fill up with oil. They are in the process of getting a restrictor pill in the correct size and sending it out to everyone. And for the people out there that had that problem, you dont have to pull the turbos off to replace a restrictor pill.
As for the mods list you are looking for, to hit 400rwhp 1300's and a Walbro pump, SMIC, PFC, and all the other normal upgrades. Also you need to budget $500 for tuning no matter if thats you spending $500 on a wideband to tune it yourself or spending $500 on a tuner. As for what turbo, thats just up to you. I hit over 400rwhp with my stage 3's and to be honest other than a good tuner dont have anything abnormal done to my car. I'd say if your goal is 400rwhp some stage 3's or a nice single like the GT35/40 would do good.
Good Luck,
Last edited by SPOautos; 07-24-03 at 11:59 AM.
07-24-03, 11:52 AM
#9
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally posted by Mr rx-7 tt
Ask to see the dyno numbers...I have YET after all the claims to see any big dyno numbers.
Can you say restricted stock manifold...
Ask to see the dyno numbers...I have YET after all the claims to see any big dyno numbers.
Can you say restricted stock manifold...
People are also claiming to smoke alot of other very high powered cars in the kill section with these.
I have also seen reports of traps in excess of 12xmph...thats pretty nice!
i know its nothing concrete but the owners like them...go into any section of this forum and you can read someone worshipping them. i say for the price they are worth it...ONCE the kinks get worked out. i would prefer to go big single too...just that i am not willing to dump that much money into this car. i want a bigger house!
07-24-03, 01:34 PM
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yawn
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...check them starting last year at this time...when he was having probs...and check them three months ago by the time he had all issues solved by bnr.
good luck homies...as matty is pointing out....its all in the tuning. ive pushed 381 so far and am not even close to done tuning...another session on the dyno will easily push me over the 400rwhp number. my timing needs to be tweaked and my fuel curve is way too rich up top. my low end and transition issues are very good though. time to clean up the top.
j
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...check them starting last year at this time...when he was having probs...and check them three months ago by the time he had all issues solved by bnr.
good luck homies...as matty is pointing out....its all in the tuning. ive pushed 381 so far and am not even close to done tuning...another session on the dyno will easily push me over the 400rwhp number. my timing needs to be tweaked and my fuel curve is way too rich up top. my low end and transition issues are very good though. time to clean up the top.
j
Last edited by artguy; 07-24-03 at 01:37 PM.
07-24-03, 02:45 PM
#12
Originally posted by artguy
yawn
yawn
Originally posted by artguy
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...
07-24-03, 03:17 PM
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Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Originally posted by artguy
yawn
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...check them starting last year at this time...when he was having probs...and check them three months ago by the time he had all issues solved by bnr.
good luck homies...as matty is pointing out....its all in the tuning. ive pushed 381 so far and am not even close to done tuning...another session on the dyno will easily push me over the 400rwhp number. my timing needs to be tweaked and my fuel curve is way too rich up top. my low end and transition issues are very good though. time to clean up the top.
j
yawn
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...check them starting last year at this time...when he was having probs...and check them three months ago by the time he had all issues solved by bnr.
good luck homies...as matty is pointing out....its all in the tuning. ive pushed 381 so far and am not even close to done tuning...another session on the dyno will easily push me over the 400rwhp number. my timing needs to be tweaked and my fuel curve is way too rich up top. my low end and transition issues are very good though. time to clean up the top.
j
kwikrx7's problems ended up NOT being turbo related like he thought it was at first. According to Brian (BNR), when he broke down kwikrx7's turbos there wasnt anything wrong with them. Brian sent them back to KD and they still werent spooling right and werent making any power. THEN KD replaced his rear diff and all was fine. The diff was going bad and not putting enough load on the engine, this was the problem the whole time.....not the turbos.
However once he got his car all back together and running properly he was VERY happy with it!!! He told me it was running awsome. He was running them seq and said they spooled faster than stock!!!
OH YEA!!! Also, dont forget kwikrx7 was running stage 2's NOT 3's.
STEPHEN
Last edited by SPOautos; 07-24-03 at 03:21 PM.
07-24-03, 03:43 PM
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from what i remember stephen kwik had the first set of turbos sent back and the seals replaced....i forget the details....regardless he ended up being very happy with them.
j
j
07-24-03, 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by matty
well, people are claiming good dyno numbers..not everyone but people that have an excellent tuner close by are.
People are also claiming to smoke alot of other very high powered cars in the kill section with these.
I have also seen reports of traps in excess of 12xmph...thats pretty nice!
i know its nothing concrete but the owners like them...go into any section of this forum and you can read someone worshipping them. i say for the price they are worth it...ONCE the kinks get worked out. i would prefer to go big single too...just that i am not willing to dump that much money into this car. i want a bigger house!
well, people are claiming good dyno numbers..not everyone but people that have an excellent tuner close by are.
People are also claiming to smoke alot of other very high powered cars in the kill section with these.
I have also seen reports of traps in excess of 12xmph...thats pretty nice!
i know its nothing concrete but the owners like them...go into any section of this forum and you can read someone worshipping them. i say for the price they are worth it...ONCE the kinks get worked out. i would prefer to go big single too...just that i am not willing to dump that much money into this car. i want a bigger house!
Here is what 362 rwhp gets you.
http://www.bridow.com/rx7/dragquick.html
Here is what 386 rwhp did (stock twins)
Anthonys 1993 Rx7 - 386 RWHP - 11.1@122.6 - Haltech Engine Management
One of the guys here on the forum made 402 hp on the stock block and the twins.
The dyno plot on Jasons forum is sae and not adjusted...
The B.S. gets old... the BNR's have yet to make any serious hp...I kept hearing 430 rwhp this and 465 that well what happened?
07-24-03, 04:21 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by artguy
[B]yawn
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...check them starting last year at this time...when he was having probs...and check them three months ago by the time he had all issues solved by bnr.
**We just returned a set last week...leaking oil like the Valdez.
good luck homies...as matty is pointing out....its all in the tuning. ive pushed 381 so far and am not even close to done tuning...another session on the dyno will easily push me over the 400rwhp number. my timing needs to be tweaked and my fuel curve is way too rich up top. my low end and transition issues are very good though. time to clean up the top.
**Please post the dyno as I would like to compare it to some stockers..
[B]yawn
im going to take mahjiks job here and tell you to do a search for posts by kwikrx7 ...check them starting last year at this time...when he was having probs...and check them three months ago by the time he had all issues solved by bnr.
**We just returned a set last week...leaking oil like the Valdez.
good luck homies...as matty is pointing out....its all in the tuning. ive pushed 381 so far and am not even close to done tuning...another session on the dyno will easily push me over the 400rwhp number. my timing needs to be tweaked and my fuel curve is way too rich up top. my low end and transition issues are very good though. time to clean up the top.
**Please post the dyno as I would like to compare it to some stockers..
07-24-03, 04:43 PM
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my current dyno sheets for the m2 twins are here...
www.conceptart.org/dyno
notice the richter scale like effect on the charts past 5500 rpms...and the power fall off even though ive got a streetport...tis timing and fuel..too much fuel.
j
www.conceptart.org/dyno
notice the richter scale like effect on the charts past 5500 rpms...and the power fall off even though ive got a streetport...tis timing and fuel..too much fuel.
j
Last edited by artguy; 07-24-03 at 04:45 PM.
07-24-03, 07:58 PM
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the more i hear, the more i think single. i'm looking for 400 rwhp eventually too. if i have to have my mechanic remove a set of upgraded twins once after they're installed, i'm pretty sure the cost difference between upgraded twins and a good single set up will be slim to none. i really want to stay with twins, but everything i read indicates that a single is the only way to guarantee i hit the 400 mark without alot of problems.
07-24-03, 10:29 PM
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"The B.S. gets old... the BNR's have yet to make any serious hp...I kept hearing 430 rwhp this and 465 that well what happened?" MR RX7TT
What happened? Trapping 125 mph granny shifting, thats what happened... No one trapped more that 122 with the stockers. 2-3 mph is a 40 hp difference! That was with a full tank of premium gas with timing very conservative. My car is there with stephens, I just haven't ran it at the track or at the dyno. If you have a stock twin turbo car, and you want to race either stephen or I, we would be glad to show you the difference.
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
What happened? Trapping 125 mph granny shifting, thats what happened... No one trapped more that 122 with the stockers. 2-3 mph is a 40 hp difference! That was with a full tank of premium gas with timing very conservative. My car is there with stephens, I just haven't ran it at the track or at the dyno. If you have a stock twin turbo car, and you want to race either stephen or I, we would be glad to show you the difference
.Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
Last edited by FEARED7; 07-24-03 at 10:33 PM.
07-24-03, 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by FEARED7
"The B.S. gets old... the BNR's have yet to make any serious hp...I kept hearing 430 rwhp this and 465 that well what happened?" MR RX7TT
What happened? Trapping 125 mph granny shifting, thats what happened... No one trapped more that 122 with the stockers. 2-3 mph is a 40 hp difference! That was with a full tank of premium gas with timing very conservative. My car is there with stephens, I just haven't ran it at the track or at the dyno. If you have a stock twin turbo car, and you want to race either stephen or I, we would be glad to show you the difference.
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
"The B.S. gets old... the BNR's have yet to make any serious hp...I kept hearing 430 rwhp this and 465 that well what happened?" MR RX7TT
What happened? Trapping 125 mph granny shifting, thats what happened... No one trapped more that 122 with the stockers. 2-3 mph is a 40 hp difference! That was with a full tank of premium gas with timing very conservative. My car is there with stephens, I just haven't ran it at the track or at the dyno. If you have a stock twin turbo car, and you want to race either stephen or I, we would be glad to show you the difference
.Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
2) There are a couple BNR's around here and all they have seen is my tail lights.
3) Don't spar with me... I was building race motors when you were on your schwinn. Ask Willie Rodriguez...
4) Show me a dyno...I showed you a 386 rwhp car and everyone knows of the 402 hp car with the stockers here on the forum. Ask Badog what hp he made on the "stockers"...It's now your turn to show me the 425-465 rwhp bnr car dyno. If you are selling a product and you are claiming hp #'s then show them. Take your car to a local dyno and post them. How about this Saturday?
5) Think of the area I am in and think of who you sold your turbos to.
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 07-24-03 at 11:56 PM.
07-25-03, 02:41 AM
#24
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a right...and a left....another jab!
its an interesting argument here....the stock turbos frying along at ultra high boost levels...unreliable in my experience....heat heat heat....but they did get their milestone numbers didnt they.....and yes..i know some of you think they run fine at high boost....too bad the other ninety percent of us werent so lucky with pushing them.
vs.
the bnrs...up by a handful of hp over the stock set but obviously running at a cooler temp due to the large wheels...better efficiency....yet unfinished design issues cloud their success...
personally...i will never go back to the stock twins as they failed on me too many times under abusive boost. my m2's are holding up perfectly...they get just the right amount of oil with the restrictor pills....the question is...will the restrictor pills on the bnr set allow for enough oil to run reliably while at the same time keep the seals from leaking oil?
how does our story end folks? will the experienced veteran defeat the aspiring champion? Personally...im rooting for the upgraded twins...i hate those hitatchi *******.
hey rxtt...will you post your mod list? Ive seen it Im sure..but i cant remember the specifics....do you have your own dyno sheets?
j
its an interesting argument here....the stock turbos frying along at ultra high boost levels...unreliable in my experience....heat heat heat....but they did get their milestone numbers didnt they.....and yes..i know some of you think they run fine at high boost....too bad the other ninety percent of us werent so lucky with pushing them.
vs.
the bnrs...up by a handful of hp over the stock set but obviously running at a cooler temp due to the large wheels...better efficiency....yet unfinished design issues cloud their success...
personally...i will never go back to the stock twins as they failed on me too many times under abusive boost. my m2's are holding up perfectly...they get just the right amount of oil with the restrictor pills....the question is...will the restrictor pills on the bnr set allow for enough oil to run reliably while at the same time keep the seals from leaking oil?
how does our story end folks? will the experienced veteran defeat the aspiring champion? Personally...im rooting for the upgraded twins...i hate those hitatchi *******.
hey rxtt...will you post your mod list? Ive seen it Im sure..but i cant remember the specifics....do you have your own dyno sheets?
j
07-25-03, 07:00 AM
#25
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally posted by Scrub
well my car dyno'd at around 360 to the wheels at 15 psi. Steve Kan did the tuning.
well my car dyno'd at around 360 to the wheels at 15 psi. Steve Kan did the tuning.
thats pretty decent...there is more psi there...nice!