BNR Stage 3
05-12-10, 07:31 PM
#26
I ran the **** out of my 93 twin until they started to smoke around 43k on the stock motor, I then installed the 99spec twin and noticed the following difference.
1-straight forward install * nothing to change or modify "plug & play"
2-99 spool way faster and throttle response(boost) was more noticeable with the 99's over all in 1 to 2nd gear.
3-running the same identical setup on 99 vs 93, I also noticed the top end drop off lot sooner on the 99 specs vs the 93. perhaps this is because the 99 spool response @ max was achieved quicker.
IMO BNR S-3 is great product, I do not recommended installing a used "i dont care what the seller say about how new their used **** is" turbos. Pay the difference and get yourself a new set.
Rebuilding stock 93 in a waste of money. do the search and you'll see how many people have had a "short life experience" with rebuilt stock turbos.
Good luck.
1-straight forward install * nothing to change or modify "plug & play"
2-99 spool way faster and throttle response(boost) was more noticeable with the 99's over all in 1 to 2nd gear.
3-running the same identical setup on 99 vs 93, I also noticed the top end drop off lot sooner on the 99 specs vs the 93. perhaps this is because the 99 spool response @ max was achieved quicker.
IMO BNR S-3 is great product, I do not recommended installing a used "i dont care what the seller say about how new their used **** is" turbos. Pay the difference and get yourself a new set.
Rebuilding stock 93 in a waste of money. do the search and you'll see how many people have had a "short life experience" with rebuilt stock turbos.
Good luck.
05-13-10, 08:38 AM
#27
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I ran the **** out of my 93 twin until they started to smoke around 43k on the stock motor, I then installed the 99spec twin and noticed the following difference.
1-straight forward install * nothing to change or modify "plug & play"
2-99 spool way faster and throttle response(boost) was more noticeable with the 99's over all in 1 to 2nd gear.
3-running the same identical setup on 99 vs 93, I also noticed the top end drop off lot sooner on the 99 specs vs the 93. perhaps this is because the 99 spool response @ max was achieved quicker.
IMO BNR S-3 is great product, I do not recommended installing a used "i dont care what the seller say about how new their used **** is" turbos. Pay the difference and get yourself a new set.
Rebuilding stock 93 in a waste of money. do the search and you'll see how many people have had a "short life experience" with rebuilt stock turbos.
1-straight forward install * nothing to change or modify "plug & play"
2-99 spool way faster and throttle response(boost) was more noticeable with the 99's over all in 1 to 2nd gear.
3-running the same identical setup on 99 vs 93, I also noticed the top end drop off lot sooner on the 99 specs vs the 93. perhaps this is because the 99 spool response @ max was achieved quicker.
IMO BNR S-3 is great product, I do not recommended installing a used "i dont care what the seller say about how new their used **** is" turbos. Pay the difference and get yourself a new set.
Rebuilding stock 93 in a waste of money. do the search and you'll see how many people have had a "short life experience" with rebuilt stock turbos.
The 99s are going to spool a little faster than the BNRs, it's just laws of physics. The OP needs to determine what boost he wants to run, if he wants to stay with 10 psi, the '99s are worth considering, BNRs would be a waste (and they're not true plug and play, you have to modify your y-pipe etc). 12-14+ psi? BNRs, no question.
05-13-10, 06:32 PM
#28
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100% on target.
The 99s are going to spool a little faster than the BNRs, it's just laws of physics. The OP needs to determine what boost he wants to run, if he wants to stay with 10 psi, the '99s are worth considering, BNRs would be a waste (and they're not true plug and play, you have to modify your y-pipe etc). 12-14+ psi? BNRs, no question.
The 99s are going to spool a little faster than the BNRs, it's just laws of physics. The OP needs to determine what boost he wants to run, if he wants to stay with 10 psi, the '99s are worth considering, BNRs would be a waste (and they're not true plug and play, you have to modify your y-pipe etc). 12-14+ psi? BNRs, no question.
1. You have plenty of room to grow in HP/Boost
2. The BNR's can be obtained for $600 less
3. They can be rebuilt
Bonus reason, they have great support. I've read many threads where support for them has gone above and beyond. That's the kinda stuff I want to buy, even if it did cost a little more.
05-13-10, 07:24 PM
#30
LOL You should not buy the 99 for it's peak out put potential. The 99's have a great initial spool and response as i have stated. In addition the peak out put of the 99 vs 93 is irrelevant, the peak ranges of both OEM turbos are only relevant for posting numbers on the dyno machine and not really a factor in real life driving conditions.
Running the BRN S-3 nonseq. is great if you don't mind giving up on the low boost range and gaining more on the top end. Once again IMO this is all important factors one needs to keep in mind when deciding on the right setup for your driving style.
Running the BRN S-3 nonseq. is great if you don't mind giving up on the low boost range and gaining more on the top end. Once again IMO this is all important factors one needs to keep in mind when deciding on the right setup for your driving style.
05-13-10, 07:58 PM
#31
Why do people talk about going non-sequential when getting BNR's? That is a complete waste of time, money, and just plain silly. If your going to do that, you should be going single. A single turbo will also be more responsive and make more power then non-sequential twins unless you get a big one.
Ok, you convinced me, I'm going to install a GT25R right now which will give me ~200 rwhp @ 10 psi but its ok because it will feel so good in real life driving conditions. Thank you so much for your helpful information, I can't believe I didn't see it before!
thewird
LOL You should not buy the 99 for it's peak out put potential. The 99's have a great initial spool and response as i have stated. In addition the peak out put of the 99 vs 93 is irrelevant, the peak ranges of both OEM turbos are only relevant for posting numbers on the dyno machine and not really a factor in real life driving conditions.
Running the BRN S-3 nonseq. is great if you don't mind giving up on the low boost range and gaining more on the top end. Once again IMO this is all important factors one needs to keep in mind when deciding on the right setup for your driving style.
Running the BRN S-3 nonseq. is great if you don't mind giving up on the low boost range and gaining more on the top end. Once again IMO this is all important factors one needs to keep in mind when deciding on the right setup for your driving style.
thewird
05-13-10, 09:10 PM
#32
I understand FDSeoul's point.
There are still a few of us that drive our 99.7% stock FDs, at stock boost levels, because that is the way we like it. For us, that is the 'real world. In this case peak output between the two specs of turbos does become irrelevant. But, even quicker spool on the street certainly isn't. That is why the 99 spec twins are a viable, albeit expensive, option should we ever need to replace our turbos. Really no reason to get snarky.
In the end, I'd probably still choose the BNRs.
There are still a few of us that drive our 99.7% stock FDs, at stock boost levels, because that is the way we like it. For us, that is the 'real world. In this case peak output between the two specs of turbos does become irrelevant. But, even quicker spool on the street certainly isn't. That is why the 99 spec twins are a viable, albeit expensive, option should we ever need to replace our turbos. Really no reason to get snarky.
In the end, I'd probably still choose the BNRs.
Oops i almost forgot that you owned your own personal race track in ur real world
05-13-10, 09:28 PM
#35
I'm not trying to be a ***** or condescending at all. I don't see a point in spending more for less. The 99 twins make less power and cost more. Maybe they spool up quicker but is that even an issue with twins? Maybe I'm not seeing something that some of you are. If you can explain it to me, I will apologize.
I understand FDSeoul's point and it makes sense in some scenario's but we are talking about twins here where there is no real lack of response to speak of. It's not like we're talking about a GT42R vs a GT35R where the point of response means something.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I own a track o.O? Please give me directions so I can spend my afternoons there >.<
thewird
I understand FDSeoul's point and it makes sense in some scenario's but we are talking about twins here where there is no real lack of response to speak of. It's not like we're talking about a GT42R vs a GT35R where the point of response means something.
thewird
05-13-10, 09:41 PM
#36
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Is it just me or is this turning in to an internet argument lol.
The OP needs to say what his goals are. If we get those we could give a better direction.
Now back to the E arguing..... ^450whp with BNR's? Wow mine must be broken I want my money back hehehe
The OP needs to say what his goals are. If we get those we could give a better direction.
Now back to the E arguing..... ^450whp with BNR's? Wow mine must be broken I want my money back hehehe
05-13-10, 09:49 PM
#37
this was the OP, I thought i was trying to help, I guess not.
MD BNR Stage 3
It seems I will have to replace the stock turbos soon and was wondering if this was a direct replacement for the stock set up, and what experience anyone has had with these turbos.
MD BNR Stage 3
It seems I will have to replace the stock turbos soon and was wondering if this was a direct replacement for the stock set up, and what experience anyone has had with these turbos.
05-13-10, 10:04 PM
#38
E-arguing is the exciting part of my day. Otherwise I just monitor servers all day/night thanks to my super exciting job. Maybe I'm just getting antsy because my car is down due to fuel and ignition upgrades.
Blah, I've stated my opinions and given my reasoning's. Unsubscribing from this thread before I get heartache. FDSeoul, nothing against you, you take amazing pictures.
thewird
Blah, I've stated my opinions and given my reasoning's. Unsubscribing from this thread before I get heartache. FDSeoul, nothing against you, you take amazing pictures.
thewird
05-13-10, 10:08 PM
#39
F'n Newbie...
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Purchasing ANY type of "uprated" twin turbo's with the intention of running them non-sequential is counter productive. Sure, you will simplify things a little bit, but not nearly as much as going single will. I don't understand the theory that you get more power from non-sequential either... if anything you will gain 5-10whp, which is inconsequential.
On your everyday car, in everyday driving conditions does turbo response matter? YES!
Is the increased response on 99 spec's noticeable? I don't know... I've not owned 99's.
Is there a noticeable response difference between stock HT12's and BNR's? NO.
In stop and go city driving will you ever notice a difference? Not likely... I'm tuned to 1.2 bar as measured by the PFC, yet driving around southern Maryland/the DC Metro area I rarely go over .8-.95bar unless I get away and play on the back country roads.
Let's face it, if you're getting away to play on secluded roads than we can take away any considerations for "real life driving" since that is playing in every sense of the word.
End of the day, for me I will side with price and reliability at any reasonable boost level.
And yes, if done right than BNR's are comprable with medium singles on all out performance (I'm running approx 400rwhp, fully sequential with stock ports) and they can/will give all but a very select few cars on the road a serious run for their money, if not an outright *** whippin...
On your everyday car, in everyday driving conditions does turbo response matter? YES!
Is the increased response on 99 spec's noticeable? I don't know... I've not owned 99's.
Is there a noticeable response difference between stock HT12's and BNR's? NO.
In stop and go city driving will you ever notice a difference? Not likely... I'm tuned to 1.2 bar as measured by the PFC, yet driving around southern Maryland/the DC Metro area I rarely go over .8-.95bar unless I get away and play on the back country roads.
Let's face it, if you're getting away to play on secluded roads than we can take away any considerations for "real life driving" since that is playing in every sense of the word.
End of the day, for me I will side with price and reliability at any reasonable boost level.
And yes, if done right than BNR's are comprable with medium singles on all out performance (I'm running approx 400rwhp, fully sequential with stock ports) and they can/will give all but a very select few cars on the road a serious run for their money, if not an outright *** whippin...
05-13-10, 10:19 PM
#40
F'n Newbie...
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Regardless, I'm not trying to argue with anybody.
Again, in response to the OP's original question; No, nothing further needs to be done besides the Y-pipe modification, which is conducted upon purchase...
Any further mods are completely up to user discression ;-)
And L~O~effin'~L at Mark calling people out on being overly opinionated, pompous asses
Again, in response to the OP's original question; No, nothing further needs to be done besides the Y-pipe modification, which is conducted upon purchase...
Any further mods are completely up to user discression ;-)
And L~O~effin'~L at Mark calling people out on being overly opinionated, pompous asses
05-14-10, 09:10 AM
#41
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05-14-10, 01:25 PM
#42
If you go with BNRs you will need similar upgrades to single turbo, including ECU (Power FC most likely), larger injectors, fuel pump, big IC, pressure regulator, etc...plus then you have to get it tuned. It might be a little cheaper, but not much. I upgraded all my IC piping and BOV as well when I went to BNRs. The only "stock" item is a heavily modded y-pipe (now flanged).
I should caveat this by saying I'm assuming you want to run more boost. At stock boost levels, the BNRs have no advantage over 99s, plus there is more lag
I should caveat this by saying I'm assuming you want to run more boost. At stock boost levels, the BNRs have no advantage over 99s, plus there is more lag
05-14-10, 07:15 PM
#44
05-14-10, 07:15 PM
#45
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18 eh?
Have you tried going higher? I think Brian said they can go as far as 21lbs.
I'm not sure I'd have enough fuel to run that high. I'm currently running 14 on low and will have 16 on high.
Have you tried going higher? I think Brian said they can go as far as 21lbs.
I'm not sure I'd have enough fuel to run that high. I'm currently running 14 on low and will have 16 on high.
05-14-10, 08:24 PM
#46
05-14-10, 08:36 PM
#48
I would of liked to go a bit higher but I was running out of fuel, and for some odd reason my boost controller is almost at it's max setting, but as for the fuel when I go single I'm not taking any chances and have to change my fuel again, I'm going 850/1600s...Or maybe get these 2200cc secondary injectors and keep the 550 prim... http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=63
thewird
05-14-10, 09:05 PM
#50
How about the Knightsport RF420!!!! Bolt on, spool very fast, pull forever and are rebuildable!
But the downside it is very expensive to buy and hard to find!
I got a set on my Fd. Run it sequentiel a 10psi stock and tey spool quick as hell!
On first gear when i WOT at 2k rpm they spool instantly and my rear end dont want stop to spin....lol
I hope that this will keep some debated
Eric.... (sorry for my english)
But the downside it is very expensive to buy and hard to find!
I got a set on my Fd. Run it sequentiel a 10psi stock and tey spool quick as hell!
On first gear when i WOT at 2k rpm they spool instantly and my rear end dont want stop to spin....lol
I hope that this will keep some debated
Eric.... (sorry for my english)