LdotS5

I want to stay with the twins and have some questions about running the BNR stage III twins. I want to run 17 psi with a street ported motor. I want to use the greddy FMIC but would you use the 2 row or the 3 row? Would i need to run a water or meth injection and bigger injectors? I wanted to get close to 400 rwhp and keep reliability. What other mods would i need besides exhaust and ECU...thanks

Rixio_Scon

Shopping List

ECU
Injectors
Exhaust
2 row or 3 row not going to be that much difference.
Wii a good idea for high boost
HKS Twin Power to counter-act the loss of spark due to Wii
& if you want to keep it sequential you will need uprated solenoids in order to run 17psi

HTH

LdotS5

How much bigger will i need to go with the injectors and should i buy a better fuel pump as well..

RX7 RAGE

iTrader: (22)

Yes, you'll need a fuel pump as well. I'm running 1300 secondaries and a walbro fuel pump on my bnr setup.

LdotS5

Do you like your setup? What numbers did you put down and at what psi.. I want to run seq twins what do you think is a reliable rwhp for the bnrs

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I just prepped for, than installed, BNR's this winter/spring.

Here is what all *I* did:

(first were the basic reliability and bolt on power mods: Intakes, Radiator, AST, Silicon hoses, DP, ECU, Highflow Cat, Catback, GReddy SMIC, etc., etc. which had been in place for a while)

Bigger brake kit
Wheels/tires to accomodate brakes
Suspension

BNR's
Efini Y-pipe
Free-flow midpipe
HKS Twin Power
Bosch 044 fuel pump (overkill) ~ re-wired
Aeromotive FPR ~ Fuel Pressure up to 50psi
GReddy FP gauge mounted w/ wideband display
850/850 injectors
Exedy Clutch/Flywheel upgrade
3-bar MAP sensor (MUST HAVE TO TUNE ABOVE 16PSI!!)
Innovative LC-1 WBO2
GReddy Profec B, Spec II
Banzai Racing Diff Brace
Tranny Brace

All in all the parts (alone) above cost right around 8k (I could be forgetting some stuff), plus shop fee's and tuning... Tuning is a MUST!!!

I just (yesterday) installed:

Aquamist 1s Water/Meth injection kit.

Everything together gives me a rock solid (reliable) 380 at the rear wheels (380 is the corrected number when comparing the UK dyno to American Dyno's... pulled 325 on the UK dyno) with stock engine internals.

My water/meth system doesn't actually *drop* my temps like you may expect, however it also doesn't rob me of any power.. It is set to kick on with a small nozzle at .9bar and will hold my Intake Temps rock solid from before boost, through during boost, and then after boost it may drop a degree or so..

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

^ Oh yeah, forgot to add... I did all that with the boost controller set to 10psi and 16psi.

You *will* need colder plugs than the 9's if you plan on running that much boost. I had 9's all around and they've been absolutely DESTROYED since April..

It will not be cheap for you to run 400whp reliably on twins. It's very doable, it's just gunna cost ya!

LdotS5

Thats a nice setup. Is the water/ meth injection a must? I think running 380 rwhp reliable is a really good number. I want to go single but i just love the feel of the twins and wanna try the BNRs first. Twins at those numbers have to feel amazing

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I think the A/I is a very good idea. It is cheap (relatively speaking) and will keep your intake temps in check.

While cruising with a SMIC my intake temps stay at about 30-40 celcius. Before installing water injection I could only run 16psi in short bursts, and would need significant cool down time before temps would return to the 40's range (16psi would almost immediately push me to the 50+ range, continuous use would hit 60+). For this reason I would primarily run on the 10psi boost setting, only switching up to 16 if I needed to spank somebody around.

After the water injection I have only seen temps above 40-45 while stuck in traffic. I haven't switched down from the 1.1bar (16psi) setting yet, and I have ragged the **** out of my car because it's fun now. WOT or relaxed cruising makes no difference.

Add to the fact that the water injection makes for superior knock suppressant... it's really a no brainer if you plan on modifying your car extensively (which you will do if you want to, correctly, run 17psi on any pair of twins).

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Great thread . . .

:-) neil

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

im pretty much like you, close to 400. i got the bnr stage 3 seq installed with my rebuild 3 or 4 months ago because i just love the feel of the twins. i got the stock i/c atm with stock injectors.. iv come a long way since i got the car back 4 years ago. dont rush get things little by little if you have a budget. i mean all i need now is the i/c, (deciding which one i want now) 1300cc inj and ingnition and im good for a tune. i would like as close to 400 but hell 380 is fine if i come close, then maybe when i got some more money to spend i get a water/meth inj to help it out... just take your time. i wish i knew how to do the fuel pump rewireing.. i need pics to help me out lol..

twomucboost4u

iTrader: (9)

I dont understand why people think its so easy adn reliable to boost the BNR's and make 400 hp... The grocery list is very large and everything has to be done with a lot of attention to detail... Im in the process of trying to make it happen and let me tell you every little thing counts... To hit those kind of numbers and make it reliable here is a list of things I think you will need.

Fuel...
Upgraded fuel pump..(Supra or Bosch)
Injectors (720, 1600) for said 400hp reliable and safe.
Fuel Rails for top feed injectors
Fuel pressure regulator
Injector driver box( AEM,FJO) much better than resistors
Ignition/Electronics...
Upgraded Wires (MSD are good)
Upgraded plugs 9 & 10 minimum I run 10 & 11.5
Upgraded Ignition Amp ( Twin Power )
Water/Meth Kit ( Help maintain AIT and knock)
Boost controller
Wide band
Exhaust... All exhaust compnents must be 3 inch +
Downpipe
HF Midpipe
CB System with no restrictors
Engine/Drivetrain related...
Greddy Compression Elbow
Upgraded IC
Upgraded Radiator
Upgraded AST
Pulleys
Upgraded motor mounts or engine torque brace
Upgraded clutch
Upgraded Solenoids ( Rob Bailey) Stock solenoids will not withstadn the boost needed to make that power reliably
3 Bar map sensor( Stock only good to 16psi)
Upgraded vacuum lines

And thats a $4500-$6000 Grocery list depending who you buy from...

I could go on to other thigns but this would be a bare minimum of where to start out shooting for that 400 mark with twins... Unless you want to biuld another motor I wouldnt suggest trying to take it there unless your prepped and ready...

Chris

Fred Villamor

The Greddy 2-row is good UP to 20 Psi ... anything over 20 Psi would require a 3-row

2007 ZX-10

interesting...do you have pics? I'm running the Denso Iridiums in an equivalent heat range to NGK 9s and I have all the same mods you have

btw the Twin Power is a silly band aid...with good wires (I prefer NGK ultra low resistance Power Cables), fresh coils, and iridiums, you don't need it

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

The Twin Power is not a band aid. Or perhaps you have some experimental evidence you would like to share with us?

I had new wires and plugs on a 50k mile car and only the Twin Power killed my high rpm breakup over 13psi. I'm not sure how you define the word 'fresh' but new OEM coils would have cost twice as much as the Twin Power.

2007 ZX-10

I don't have any high end break up at 15 psi and low 11s AFR...I credit that to the combination previously cited...I've also talked to enough people to know the Twin Power is not a professional solution to high rpm break up

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Who are these people? They must not post on this board because I don't recall ever seeing this conclusion here. Can you describe specifically what the shortcomings of the Twin Power are.

EjCabrera

iTrader: (4)

i have the bnrs and when it was getting tuned i was getting alot of break up. i was using 9's all around at the time and i was recommended to use some ngk b10egv and it cleared up that ignition problem. next time i get it tuned i would def get a twin power. for fuel i used 850 pri and 1300 sec using a supra fuel pump and i have yet to max it out.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

With the Bosch 044, 50psi fuel pressure and 850/850 injectors I'm seeing a max of70-75% IDC at 1.15-1.18 bar (16.7-17.1 psi).

Once I get my v-mount I plan on bumping up closer to 1.4-1.45 bar (20.3-21 psi). This will, of course, depend on peak IDC's...

Mark, I'm not trying to question your personal knowledge regarding FD's. However, I must disagree with your statement that the Twin Power is just a bandaide.

A widely used bandaide is the Engine Torque Brace, it's used to cover bad/failing engine mounts and isn't otherwise necessary (so I've read, I don't use one). The Twin Power, while it can be used to cover failing/poor quality parts, is not intended for this purpose.

As for pics, I didn't take pictures. The electrodes were ground down to almost nothing though. Hence why I said they were destroyed. I'm now using NGK(racing) 9's in Lead, and NGK(racing) 10.5's in trailing.

RX7 RAGE

iTrader: (22)

What's your max fuel injector duty cycle? I'm hitting 73% with my 550/1300 combo running 12-14 psi of boost.

twomucboost4u

iTrader: (9)

"With the Bosch 044, 50psi fuel pressure and 850/850 injectors I'm seeing a max of70-75% IDC at 1.15-1.18 bar (16.7-17.1 psi)."

I would be carefull with that just as we are talking about bandaids... Running that high of a fuel pressure with those injectors is failure waiting to happen... You should have about 38-40 psi fuel pressure with no vacuum. I would recomend to be safe to upgrade your 850 secondaries with 1200-1300, lower your fuel pressure and re-tune...

Chris

2007 ZX-10

so you're running lead 9's again?

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

Hey! How about you present some real proof to back your statements, or you cease your inane babble.

Since there is already existing proof that the HKS Twin Power Ignition Amplifier fixes ignition break-up (which is primarily caused by too weak of a spark to ignite the now more-difficult-to-ignite air/fuel mixture), you will need to show some actual evidence to support your claims.

Either put up. Or shut up.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I'm curious why you say that. The shop that does all my tuning (one of the top rotary specialist in the country) has ok'd the setup. They have a flow bench in house and have done testing on the 850's at different psi's and are satisfied with the stability and spray pattern of the 850's at higher pressure (850@50psi = flow of 1000@40psi, with a better pattern). In fact, Max (the tuner) is more impressed with the 850's pattern at higher pressure than the 1000/1300's. ALL my injectors were cleaned and flow tested before install. Honestly though, depending on IDC and boost pressure I'm considering going to 1300's later on down the road.

40psi at exactly 0 vacuum is the stock fuel pressure. I don't see how an increase of 10psi is that risky.

Please provide information on the contrary.

Yup, but not the BUR9EQP's. Why would I put them back in if they couldn't handle the pressure? There are now R6725 type plugs in the 9 heat range, I'm using them and hope for better success =)

2007 ZX-10

it's not "babble", and I've owned this car for 10 years...the combination I stated above eliminated my high end break up, I really could care less if you believe it or not