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Well that's awesome. BTW, when I put things back together, I'm adding EMAP and EGT's to the setup so I'll have some extra data soon.
Ok the more I think about this the more questions I have. Are you on pump + 250CC of water or meth? Any e85? Are you concerned at all about detonation on pump and just a small amount of water?
Last edited by F1blueRx7; Mar 15, 2021 at 10:22 PM.
I've been very curious about measuring EGTs but haven't looked into what's involved -- care to share?
Am I concerned? Sure. At least my glutes are getting a workout.
I'm using 91 and relatively conservative AFRs. Having some ignition breakup issues at 6.5K+ in high gears even with IGN-1A's so not sure what's going on there. Once I get that sorted I'll probably step up the water to around 350.
Also, I'm not claiming I know what I'm doing here. I understand people have different opinions about what is "safe", but if 23psi on pump sounds stupid to you, I'm all ears.
It seems risky, I probably wouldn't do it just due to the amount of heat that's being dumped into the chamber it can cause all sorts of issues. Chatting with my tuner about goals, and some other folks who have been running rotary tuning shops for a long time anything more than 16lbs on twins (BNR or other) should be using water or meth at least with E85 preferred for safer power and temps cooler.
EGT wise I plan to drill the top of the exhaust manifold and put two Stainless tap in bungs for the front/rear EGT sensors. I've done similar things on Diesel exhaust manifolds. Takes a press and some good bits, run slowly with cutting oil but it can get through. I'll take pictures when the kit gets here. That'll be hooked up to a TCA2 for the haltech. For the EMAP i'm using a FFE emap canister, a stainless steel cooling tube and I plan to use the port air passages in the center iron/lower intake manifold to capture exhaust pressure.
I'm hoping that improving my SBG IGN-1A harness grounds and switching to 10.5 plugs will fix my ignition breakup problem. If it does I'll probably do 380cc/min water (washer fluid when I get get it in CA -- I think I have four cases stashed in the garage right now but I'm running just water at the moment for tuning purposes) and maybe limit boost to 18-20ish. Sure would be nice to have EGT. Looking forward to seeing the photos.
Right now I'm tuning for max knock of 60 (in PFC parlance) -- perhaps I should pull some timing to get it down to 40 for extra safety.
16psi is max for me without water. I wouldn't go over that. I am running it at 14psi which in reality is kind of over kill probably, but I am running the smallest aem nozzle (250).
60 knock? Woah. Any idea what your normal knock was before tuning? Just curious as it seems high to me, but I am ultra conservative and ultra paranoid.
The thing to remember about knock on the PFC is every engine and car is different. Some engines/cars/wiring/knock sensors just put out more noise than others. You have to discover what's real knock and what's just the background noise level.
BTW, the new version of FC-Tweak with auto-tune can intelligently log and analyze knock. It does some of the heavy lifting of identifying what's knock and what isn't.
16psi is max for me without water. I wouldn't go over that. I am running it at 14psi which in reality is kind of over kill probably, but I am running the smallest aem nozzle (250).
60 knock? Woah. Any idea what your normal knock was before tuning? Just curious as it seems high to me, but I am ultra conservative and ultra paranoid.
Knock was similar at ~12-14 PSI before. When I say 60, I mean that in the FC Edit graph you could see very short spikes to 60 every once in a while, but they were so short that they never showed up in the map trace, only the graph. Map trace was around 40 max, and I actually removed some more timing yesterday and now it sits around 20-25 or less under boost in the map trace averaged cells.
The thing to remember about knock on the PFC is every engine and car is different. Some engines/cars/wiring/knock sensors just put out more noise than others. You have to discover what's real knock and what's just the background noise level.
BTW, the new version of FC-Tweak with auto-tune can intelligently log and analyze knock. It does some of the heavy lifting of identifying what's knock and what isn't.
Dale
What! When did that get added? I'll have to get a copy of the updated manual to see how that works. Will it also "tune" timing now or will it still only lower for high knock cells?
I know next to nothing about tuning ignition. My understanding is that with good fuel you adjust to where you get the best torque without too much knock (using a dyno to measure), but with pump gas you pretty much just advance as far as possible before knock, as you will never get it advanced enough for peak torque.
By the way, *** DON'T ANYBODY TAKE MY ADVICE ON THE ABOVE STATEMENT. I AM FULL OF **** ***
That's a record for that kind of build IIRC. I think it was balljoint who had to modify their exhaust to get the twins to flow like that. Although it saying "SAE adapted" leads me to believe it's corrected/estimated flywheel power. 15% say it's 390WHP Which isn't unheard of, I've also noticed comments are turned off on their post which I find suspicious.
That does seem like a wee bit too much power for these turbos....but I do want it to be true. However I can’t imagine how much heat that they would produce at that boost level.
I finally have my turbos. New stage 2. Once they are installed and tuned courtesy of @cr-rex in Tampa, (dope shop btw Mike is the G.O.A.T. ) I will post results. My goal is a streetable 400 whp. I want to run pump gas and keep the iconic sequential setup.
The above numbers are awesome but seem aspirational. Personally I'm looking for a regularly streetable 400whp. Let's see what we can do with some @cr-rex magic
Holy crap. Well damn. Guess the pressure is off me then. Would love to see the tune. For pump and meth that's maxed out. I think I'm just going to focus on 400hp then.
So any update on these? I have my tune close to perfected and on the conservative side for a lower boost setting of 12-13.
I am working on a 16 psi for the 3KAI the "SP" Hitachi. Just curious if there are any numbers flying around for the stage 2s.
I keep trying to get into the dyno close to my house for 3 pulls, but they are so backed up.
I have been putting miles on the car driving to car shows and what not running 9-10lbs of boost with just the Haltech auto tuning. I just got the break-in miles done. Car is running really well with the exception of what is likely a sticking Turbo Control E-Solenoid, but the secondary turbo comes online after the transition and pulls REALLY hard to redline, then you shift and the car falls flat on it's face, will only build 3-4lbs of boost. Timing maps have not been adjusted for power beyond the base map. The new E solenoid should be here today so fingers crossed I get that resolved. I spent a lot of time over the past few months on the little things. Ic7 dash, cleaning up wiring in cab, interior fixes, fought a bad heater logicon which has been replaced and A/C works flawlessly, pillowballs, Water injection nozzles installed. The last thing there is to do is dyno tuning at this point.
Initially I was really trying to max out the stage 2's but my goals with the car kinda changed, and I bought a second car for the "max power" build I was initially thinking about for this car. I'm looking to go with about 15-16lbs and get as close to 400 as possible with the car.
Update about the BNR Stage 1 drops ins and at 7lbs (wastegate spring) the car feels strong. Spools quick through the larger core I have.
I have not dyno'd it because my engine needs a rebuild due to an external coolant oring failure but yeah car feels strong.
car set-up BNR Stage 1 twins, ported waste gate Unknown Down pipe, RP high flow cat, Apexi N1 Dual AzEKnightz custom solenoid rack - under the intake manifold Used engine with external coolant o'ring leak near the rear exhaust port, ported exhaust and smoothed intake ports 550 pri, ID2000 sec with cj motorsports secondary rail with fuel pulsation damper, RP high flow fuel pump with fuel relay mod new stock coils, #9's for leading and trailing, HKS Twin Power, custom MSD spark plug wires Xcessive LIM Rotary Extreme Twin Track Vm kit. Fast IAT in Greddy elbow Apexi PFC, FC Black Box Datalogit, FC Tweak Pro version. Greddy Pfofec B T-eed into both the waste gate control and pre-control. ISC, Thermowax and warm-up cam working great. No Air Pump, No OMP, No emissions, no factory boost waste gate solenoids.
