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After the really difficult time finding a tuner, I needed to re-assess my strategy on engine management for the car. My goals with the car go beyond tinkering with FC Edit, I intend to do both drag racing and auto-x with the car. I needed tuning support that was going to be semi-local and actually interested in tuning the car. After speaking to a couple different tuners that deal with PowerFC's, Micotech, Adaptronic and Haltech, my Haltech Elite 2500 showed up yesterday, harness should be here soon. Using Claudio from Tuning Technologies in south Florida, dyno tuning the car in Pensacola. This approach works far better for me. Not ragging on the PowerFC at all, but the availability of tuning and support has definitely changed since the last PowerFC I had 15 years ago. It's still a great solution, but where I wanted to go with the car, the features I wanted in an ECU/Datalog coupled with my geographic location were just not a great fit with the PowerFC.
After the really difficult time finding a tuner, I needed to re-assess my strategy on engine management for the car. My goals with the car go beyond tinkering with FC Edit, I intend to do both drag racing and auto-x with the car. I needed tuning support that was going to be semi-local and actually interested in tuning the car. After speaking to a couple different tuners that deal with PowerFC's, Micotech, Adaptronic and Haltech, my Haltech Elite 2500 showed up yesterday, harness should be here soon. Using Claudio from Tuning Technologies in south Florida, dyno tuning the car in Pensacola. This approach works far better for me. Not ragging on the PowerFC at all, but the availability of tuning and support has definitely changed since the last PowerFC I had 15 years ago. It's still a great solution, but where I wanted to go with the car, the features I wanted in an ECU/Datalog coupled with my geographic location were just not a great fit with the PowerFC.
I totally get it. I was actually going to make the change myself over to Haltech. The only reason why I didn't was $$. Not initial cost. But all the add ons I wanted for safety. A lot of safety features seem like a back brace (meaning not going to help as they will not respond fast enough) , but there are some that definitely appear to be better to have and not need then need and not have.
As for tuning. I agree. The pfc is gone. Unless you use Banzai, Ari Yallon, RP performance, I don't know of anyone else or anyone that "wants to do it". I have offered a lot of $$ up and people still refuse lol. I think Mike Lowe will fit my needs. I say that again because he has an fd with the pfc. I am doing my best to learn what I can and use FC-Tweak also for the pfc. I wish you luck with the Haltech!!!
But all the add ons I wanted for safety. A lot of safety features seem like a back brace (meaning not going to help as they will not respond fast enough) , but there are some that definitely appear to be better to have and not need then need and not have.
Just my opinion. Most of the safeguards stopping detonation via wastegate control or fuel cut would not respond fast enough. I think something is better than nothing, but I would not trust it per say. Ignition cut maybe, but sometimes even 1 ping is enough to pop a seal and it will not stop that.
Fuel pump or an injector fails what then? Ignition cut? Maybe. Definitely not boost control.
I do think the oil press, coolant, and all other sensors are awesome. I am just not sure yet if I can justify the cost for myself. I ended up at like 4k or more I think with what I would want.
I heard people have had issues with sequential setups also. I think if I ever go single I would go all in and go haltech.
I just got off the phone with Brian, asking about what kind of boost levels he recommends with the stage 2's and if he'd heard any feedback from customers yet. Basically trying to get him to say "I wouldn't run them at X because they won't last" or "I had one customer who ran them at Y and they blew up" or whatever. He said he hadn't heard anything from customers yet -- "no news is good news." He also indicated they could put out about 22psi (assuming this is based on his own testing) @F1blueRx7 I know he told you to shorten the actuator rods to get 20.
But I'm interested in longevity at higher boost levels. He indicated that he didn't think it would be a problem to just run them all-out all the time, saying "they have good bearings", and referenced the 360 degree spin boy.
Is he just being a salesman, or could one actually expect these things, with their balancing the 360 thrust bearing, to actually last a reasonable amount of time at 20lbs?
I just got off the phone with Brian, asking about what kind of boost levels he recommends with the stage 2's and if he'd heard any feedback from customers yet. Basically trying to get him to say "I wouldn't run them at X because they won't last" or "I had one customer who ran them at Y and they blew up" or whatever. He said he hadn't heard anything from customers yet -- "no news is good news." He also indicated they could put out about 22psi (assuming this is based on his own testing) @F1blueRx7 I know he told you to shorten the actuator rods to get 20.
But I'm interested in longevity at higher boost levels. He indicated that he didn't think it would be a problem to just run them all-out all the time, saying "they have good bearings", and referenced the 360 degree spin boy.
Is he just being a salesman, or could one actually expect these things, with their balancing the 360 thrust bearing, to actually last a reasonable amount of time at 20lbs?
That's your decision to make right now. I personally didn't find Brian to be a salesman. The way I look at this is that a 360 degree thrust bearing is going to last longer at 10psi than the oem turbo chargers. At 20lbs it's going to be less reliable than 10lbs. Rhetorically, how reliable are the OEM twins at 20lbs. That was sufficient for me in deciding because there isn't a field of alternatives. There's BNR, 99spec's, and some really expensive twins from Australia which were lacking value for the cost in my view which knocked them out of consideration. The other option is single turbo, so the choice was a lot easier to make for me. If I was going to maximum longevity and efficiency, ease of installation and operation I would have bought an EFR single turbo setup a long time ago and my car would be running right now.
I don't get the feeling Brian is "just a salesman" either, and I wasn't really trying to imply that. The dude seems really legit.
My question is coming more from a place of naivety. Some context: I recently did a street tune on my stockers using the FC Tweak software. As part of the tuning process I set the boost up to about 16 psi. This was only supposed to be brief and temporary, but I liked it so much, and since I knew I had the BNRs sitting in the garage, just left it at 16. It only took about 200-400 freeway miles to toast those things. I was surprised it was that fast. They only put out about 7.5psi by redline now. So now, while I want to crank the BNRs up real good, I don't want a repeat of what I just did to the poor stockers.
I don't get the feeling Brian is "just a salesman" either, and I wasn't really trying to imply that. The dude seems really legit.
My question is coming more from a place of naivety. Some context: I recently did a street tune on my stockers using the FC Tweak software. As part of the tuning process I set the boost up to about 16 psi. This was only supposed to be brief and temporary, but I liked it so much, and since I knew I had the BNRs sitting in the garage, just left it at 16. It only took about 200-400 freeway miles to toast those things. I was surprised it was that fast. They only put out about 7.5psi by redline now. So now, while I want to crank the BNRs up real good, I don't want a repeat of what I just did to the poor stockers.
That sounds about right you're talking about a worn out turbo with an inferior thrust bearing which is the root cause of a failure at 16lbs. The BNR is a brand new CHRA with no window in the bearing. Send it, that's what I plan to do. I intend to beat the crap out of them. My harness is here, I have pretty much everything I need to put my car back together this weekend. The car is going to go down to Central Florida for a tune with Claudio from Tuning Technology. I'm not sure if it'll be ready for the dyno before the end of the month as I need to shake all the bugs out with some street miles before I put it on the dyno. My power goals are 400-450. I'd be happy with a number anywhere in that range.
Dang those are some high power numbers. In my "killing exhaust drone" thread recently you said you're running the RB resonated MP & RB catback -- curious what the porting situation on your new motor is?
I'd love to break 400, but trying to be realistic with my setup -- stock ports with a high-flow cat and RB duals, so I think a safe bet is 350 @ 18-20lbs. 380 would be nice. I also just installed an AI system, but will only be spraying over the tune, not tuning for it.
Dang those are some high power numbers. In my "killing exhaust drone" thread recently you said you're running the RB resonated MP & RB catback -- curious what the porting situation on your new motor is?
I'd love to break 400, but trying to be realistic with my setup -- stock ports with a high-flow cat and RB duals, so I think a safe bet is 350 @ 18-20lbs. 380 would be nice. I also just installed an AI system, but will only be spraying over the tune, not tuning for it.
Pineapple street port which I'm guessing is on the large side. Dale ported the Irons for me using their template. The RB catback is likely going to get swapped out since it'll be the restriction. Will likely order the garage alpha exhaust before I hit the dyno.
That was sufficient for me in deciding because there isn't a field of alternatives. There's BNR, 99spec's, and some really expensive twins from Australia which were lacking value for the cost in my view which knocked them out of consideration.
Just wanted to add in that I think the Hitachi "SP" twins are also still an option.
If I remember right, I think the Australian ones you mentioned start life as the Hitachi "High Output" SP models and are modified from there.
Just wanted to add in that I think the Hitachi "SP" twins are also still an option.
If I remember right, I think the Australian ones you mentioned start life as the Hitachi "High Output" SP models and are modified from there.
Yes, there's a big thread on those with lots of discussion. I encourage anyone interested in that option to start with that thread for research. Being local to BNR, past history with one of his FC turbos, price difference and that thread were all part of my decision process there.
Totally agree. Not saying they are the better choice or anything. For similar reasons as your own I opted to get the Hitachi SPs (not the AU version), but I'm still breaking the car in so I have no numbers or power impressions yet.
So here some some **** to thrown on this thread...
I made 301/251 at 10psi with a haltech 2500 running the sequential solenoids on the spring no boost control. I do not (at the moment) have a dyno sheet. That said, I made that power with some weird issues with my engine and may be experiencing some carbon stuck seals from running heavy premix (or some other problem causing very evenly low compression front/rear). I'm not really sure what the problem is at the moment, but we stopped tuning the car after we tried to push it to 12psi, blew off a vacuum cap and by the time we found it we ran out of time on the dyno, not to mention we didn't want to move any further without a solid compression test.
I will be back on the dyno with the car sometime likely in April to push the car to at least 15lbs, and up to 20lbs with meth.
That's all I have to update at this time, sorry it wasn't more conclusive. I will push the car for more power once the compression issues are resolved.
08-24-20, 08:29 PM
