Blown Again: Need Help with Future Plans
01-05-10, 03:05 PM
#51
I'll be the first to admit my ignorance regarding my mechanics, rotary motors in general, and my own car, let alone tuning.
It isn't my intention to smear anybody's name, so lets get past that point. My opinion is based solely on my own ignorance, so give me the benefit of the doubt on that one. I'm admitting my n00bness.
Lets get past this.
As of today, I am leaning strongly towards Brent's streetported/3mm Atkins seal motor. I am still in the market for the next few weeks or so, if another deal comes by.
I can at least say I now have cash-in-hand to purchase whatever motor I chose to. That's progress.
I wanted to ask another question to everyone, if I may.
Is 18psi on 90/91 California gas while running a stronger (ported/2mm or 3mm) motor WITH methanol/water injection safe, and realistic, given proper tuning?
It isn't my intention to smear anybody's name, so lets get past that point. My opinion is based solely on my own ignorance, so give me the benefit of the doubt on that one. I'm admitting my n00bness.
Lets get past this.
As of today, I am leaning strongly towards Brent's streetported/3mm Atkins seal motor. I am still in the market for the next few weeks or so, if another deal comes by.
I can at least say I now have cash-in-hand to purchase whatever motor I chose to. That's progress.
I wanted to ask another question to everyone, if I may.
Is 18psi on 90/91 California gas while running a stronger (ported/2mm or 3mm) motor WITH methanol/water injection safe, and realistic, given proper tuning?
01-05-10, 03:12 PM
#52
Yes, but make sure your AI system is reliable and has failsafes to cut boost if it stops working so the system itself needs to have monitors to know if it stops working. A good system like the FJO (can get a linked boost controller) or Aquamist would do this for you.
thewird
thewird
The only real concern I have, is regarding air/fuel maps. If my car is tuned at 18psi with the meth kit functioning fine, even if the meth kit will turn the boost down to wastegate (11psi for me) as part of the fail-safe...will simply turning the boost down be enough?
Is there such a thing, that could perhaps send a signal to the Power FC to adjust air/fuel maps while the meth kit is simultaneously sending the ground signal to my boost controller?
Currently, I am the most interested in AEM's meth injection kit, found here: http://www.aemelectronics.com/index.php?cPath=23
The kit seems very user-friendly, even "entry level" in my own words...and provides numerous fail-safes, as well as adjustable meth-injection PSI based upon increases in boost.
Does anyone have any experience with this AEM kit?
01-05-10, 03:13 PM
#53
yes it is safe IF the auxiliary injection never fails or it has failsafes that protect the motor if it does. i have customers running pump gas and aux injection who have been pushing 18 for some time, the higher you go though the more you have to be precise and retune, it definitely isn't for daily driving at 16PSI+ unless you are confident in the car/tuner or do your own tuning.
01-05-10, 03:16 PM
#54
the best thing you can do is have your tuner tune it a little rich on the seam point around wastegate pressure and then tune to the methanol beyond that point. there is a 2 switch function in the power FC but i don't recall what exactly it did, even if you can switch maps it won't react fast enough, even most failsafes short of a pressure release in the intake pipe is a bit too slow to react during a failure. the best setups i have seen release most if not all boost in the intake when a failure occurs. this requires a pressure canister and a switch that feeds to the pop-off valve.
01-05-10, 03:26 PM
#55
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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"even if the meth kit will turn the boost down to wastegate (11psi for me) as part of the fail-safe...will simply turning the boost down be enough?"
a great question
the answer is... if the meth malfunctions and you are "tuned up" for it you need help
on the next rotor face!!!
that's why anything supposed to save you boost related is a, uh, joke.
the only save is with an ignition cut or retard. i have both. in 4 years i haven't needed them.
howard
a great question
the answer is... if the meth malfunctions and you are "tuned up" for it you need help
on the next rotor face!!!
that's why anything supposed to save you boost related is a, uh, joke.
the only save is with an ignition cut or retard. i have both. in 4 years i haven't needed them.
howard
01-05-10, 03:34 PM
#56
If you tune with pure water, its not as big of an issue since your not relying on the meth for fuel. You might want to do more reading in the AI section to properly decide but for 18 PSi pure water is more then enough. I've run my car at 20 PSi with 900cc's of tap water at the track and many have done higher making gobs of power as well. I probably didn't need so much water but I had setup my system to replace 25% of my fuel with methanol. I still haven't gotten around to doing that since I have to redo my tank design.
Anyway, I would not use the AEM. The system has no way of monitoring itself (line pressure, flow etc.). In my opinion the AEM system is more for someone who just wants their car to run cooler and keep the internals clean while providing a little bit of safety.
thewird
Anyway, I would not use the AEM. The system has no way of monitoring itself (line pressure, flow etc.). In my opinion the AEM system is more for someone who just wants their car to run cooler and keep the internals clean while providing a little bit of safety.
thewird
01-05-10, 03:42 PM
#57
"even if the meth kit will turn the boost down to wastegate (11psi for me) as part of the fail-safe...will simply turning the boost down be enough?"
a great question
the answer is... if the meth malfunctions and you are "tuned up" for it you need help
on the next rotor face!!!
that's why anything supposed to save you boost related is a, uh, joke.
the only save is with an ignition cut or retard. i have both. in 4 years i haven't needed them.
howard
a great question
the answer is... if the meth malfunctions and you are "tuned up" for it you need help
on the next rotor face!!!
that's why anything supposed to save you boost related is a, uh, joke.
the only save is with an ignition cut or retard. i have both. in 4 years i haven't needed them.
howard
thewird
01-05-10, 04:03 PM
#59
. Calabogie is pretty comparable too, it keeps you busier with lots of corners and minor elevation changes. But nothing beats high-speed massive elevation changing blind corners that Mosport provides ^_^. Of course I can only speak for Canadian tracks as thats all I've been too.thewird
01-05-10, 07:28 PM
#65
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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I'll never understand the fascination with 400+ rwhp and all the extra headaches and questionable relaibility that go with it when 360-380 rock soild reliable wheel hp is easily within reach, and it's been proven the single turbo dyno queens aren't faster at the track or even at the strip in many cases (street tires and stock rear end at least)
Last edited by no_more_rice; 01-05-10 at 07:30 PM.
01-05-10, 07:40 PM
#66
I'll never understand the fascination with 400+ rwhp and all the extra headaches and questionable relaibility that go with it when 360-380 rock soild reliable wheel hp is easily within reach, and it's been proven the single turbo dyno queens aren't faster at the track or even at the strip in many cases (street tires and stock rear end at least)
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/fd-turbod-rotary-engine-ccp-central-challenge-819225/
thewird
01-05-10, 10:39 PM
#67
Derwin
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I lol'd outside the rotary power game is much different I feel from today say to 3 years ago.
The difference between 400 rwhp and 380 rwhp could be exhaust and intake differences. The questions must be more specific rather at what boost levels, AFRS and EGTs the car makes xxx rwhp.
The difference between 400 rwhp and 380 rwhp could be exhaust and intake differences. The questions must be more specific rather at what boost levels, AFRS and EGTs the car makes xxx rwhp.
01-06-10, 09:40 AM
#68
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http://www.importtuner.com/features/...nge/index.html
This guy didn't need 400 rwhp to kick some single turbo Supra *** at the track, and that should tell you something. Mindlessly pursuing numbers to keep up with the latest internet gossip train is a complete waste of time. This car probably had 320-330 at most. Big hair dryer single turbo 13bs are extremely peaky in their power delivery and not at all track friendly. I'll take driveability over a dyno queen, which is useless in the corners. any day of the week.
This guy didn't need 400 rwhp to kick some single turbo Supra *** at the track, and that should tell you something. Mindlessly pursuing numbers to keep up with the latest internet gossip train is a complete waste of time. This car probably had 320-330 at most. Big hair dryer single turbo 13bs are extremely peaky in their power delivery and not at all track friendly. I'll take driveability over a dyno queen, which is useless in the corners. any day of the week.
Last edited by no_more_rice; 01-06-10 at 09:42 AM.
01-06-10, 10:21 PM
#69
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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?Get a good high quality water injection system, I love Aquamist. Spray windshield wiper fluid into your engine after around 8-9 psi.
Get the car tuned properly by a *rotary* tuner to a little over 1 bar boost.
Make sure all auxiliary systems are up to snuff-- ie fuel, ignition, cooling.
Done.
Kinda sucks running on 91 octane **** water, but you shouldnt have any problems making 400 rwhp.
I get the feeling I should close this meandering thread, as it's not really going anywhere
01-06-10, 10:45 PM
#70
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No one cares about my opinion about 400RWHP.. but here it goes..
If you want reliability, go with Mazda OEM.. Its proven with thousands of engines contrary to what some might say, its been proven (especially if you are going to get it tune by "rotary" tuner). My favorite tuner at this point is Ray from PFS. If I were to get someone tune besides myself, it would be him.. I liked his approached on tuning and how he dealt with his customers. If you are planning to tune PFC by yourself, i would get Chuck's notes and take your time doing it yourself.
If you are going to tune it yourself or by someone who's not so qualified tuner, than go with RA seals (2mm or 3mm). Like others said it will give you some lead way and not have to build it. But those seals might not last as long (debatable and not much data to prove who's right or wrong). Also regarding 3mm, I don't think its really the seals that cause chatter but they way some machines the rotor and if its within spec before building the engine. Again, that's my opinion.
I also believe in 13B-RE LIM/UIM and I think it has more potential. But that's also debatable and more opinion based. But I have to say, I've seen quite of bit of 13B-RE set up that made decent power... hence why I'm going with one and with 3mm RA seals so I could really test out my tuning skills.. I mean, you have to learn somehow right??
If you want reliability, go with Mazda OEM.. Its proven with thousands of engines contrary to what some might say, its been proven (especially if you are going to get it tune by "rotary" tuner). My favorite tuner at this point is Ray from PFS. If I were to get someone tune besides myself, it would be him.. I liked his approached on tuning and how he dealt with his customers. If you are planning to tune PFC by yourself, i would get Chuck's notes and take your time doing it yourself.
If you are going to tune it yourself or by someone who's not so qualified tuner, than go with RA seals (2mm or 3mm). Like others said it will give you some lead way and not have to build it. But those seals might not last as long (debatable and not much data to prove who's right or wrong). Also regarding 3mm, I don't think its really the seals that cause chatter but they way some machines the rotor and if its within spec before building the engine. Again, that's my opinion.
I also believe in 13B-RE LIM/UIM and I think it has more potential. But that's also debatable and more opinion based. But I have to say, I've seen quite of bit of 13B-RE set up that made decent power... hence why I'm going with one and with 3mm RA seals so I could really test out my tuning skills.. I mean, you have to learn somehow right??
01-10-10, 01:56 PM
#71
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Regarding to Seal debate.. Mazda made 5-6mm seals in the past. I was fortunate enough to pick up a brand new set of these seals that I'm going to install in my next engine to make 600HP
