The best way to brace your engine?
#1
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The best way to brace your engine?
I have been looking through the threads lately and am trying to decide how to stop engine torquing. I see there are allot of options out there (solid mounts, urathane mounts, torque braces and even a shock to dampen movement). I have a moderately modified (415 whp) FD and wanted to see what you guys have tried and liked/disliked. I am leaning towards the solid mounts I saw in one of the threads (can't remember where) but am concerned that it could crack the frame over time due to vibration?
#3
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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thanks for an easy question
our engines stock make 184 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. generally you can subtract 100 from your rwhp to get rear wheel torque... or just look at your dyno sheet.
so you are making over 300 ft pounds at the rear wheels. that's 63% more twist.
it is no surprise that the rubber-ish motor mounts fail on occasion.
it isn't the motor mounts fault of course.
i really like the stock motor mounts. the motor sits on them and is isolated from the frame which makes things comfortable.
of course there is a problem and you are correct to ask the question... how do you take the twist out of the powertrain. the Power Plant Frame works well but starts to lack the juice as torque rises. it needs help along w the mounts.
fortunately there is an easy fix. i have run it since 99. i highly recommend David Garfinkle's Engine Torque Brace (EBT).
the Garfinkle EBT is correctly designed in that it transfers all of the twist to the chassis in the same longitudinal plane as the motor mounts.
problem solved... happy motor mounts and PPF, non-vibrating chassis..
David is a forum member.
howard coleman
our engines stock make 184 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. generally you can subtract 100 from your rwhp to get rear wheel torque... or just look at your dyno sheet.
so you are making over 300 ft pounds at the rear wheels. that's 63% more twist.
it is no surprise that the rubber-ish motor mounts fail on occasion.
it isn't the motor mounts fault of course.
i really like the stock motor mounts. the motor sits on them and is isolated from the frame which makes things comfortable.
of course there is a problem and you are correct to ask the question... how do you take the twist out of the powertrain. the Power Plant Frame works well but starts to lack the juice as torque rises. it needs help along w the mounts.
fortunately there is an easy fix. i have run it since 99. i highly recommend David Garfinkle's Engine Torque Brace (EBT).
the Garfinkle EBT is correctly designed in that it transfers all of the twist to the chassis in the same longitudinal plane as the motor mounts.
problem solved... happy motor mounts and PPF, non-vibrating chassis..
David is a forum member.
howard coleman
#6
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I have been looking through the threads lately and am trying to decide how to stop engine torquing. I see there are allot of options out there (solid mounts, urathane mounts, torque braces and even a shock to dampen movement). I have a moderately modified (415 whp) FD and wanted to see what you guys have tried and liked/disliked. I am leaning towards the solid mounts I saw in one of the threads (can't remember where) but am concerned that it could crack the frame over time due to vibration?
Solid mounts are a bit extreme. For your car I would go with Nylon or Urethane for the motor and diff mounts if you're concerned with flex. Then add a diff brace and/or engine torque brace.
Dave
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#8
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I was always under the impression that the ETB was a bandaide and that upgrading the mounts, then stabilizing the drivetrain/rear end was the best way to protect the car where it was weakest.
Is this not correct?
Is this not correct?
#10
Urban Combat Vet
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For stock or near stock power levels, Noltecs. An ETB is redundant and would serve no purpose IMO.
For the kind of power the OP is tallking about, I'd go with both. And +1 on Garfinkle's products. Good stuff. You can PM me to find out how to contact him. He's no longer on this forum.
For the kind of power the OP is tallking about, I'd go with both. And +1 on Garfinkle's products. Good stuff. You can PM me to find out how to contact him. He's no longer on this forum.
#11
Rotary Freak
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I don’t have any real data, but I have had two 400whp FDs with slightly different set-ups.
My current FD has solid engine mounts (Delrin mounts from Defined Autoworks), solid diff mounts, and a diff brace. I love this set-up . The drivetrain is very tight and the shifting is crisp and accurate. Hardly any vibrations and they are only at low RPMs. My old FD had polyurethane mounts with an ETB and a diff brace. Vibration was worse from the ETB and overall the car felt less solid. For me, the solid motor and diff mounts made a big difference to the overall feel of the car.
My current FD has solid engine mounts (Delrin mounts from Defined Autoworks), solid diff mounts, and a diff brace. I love this set-up . The drivetrain is very tight and the shifting is crisp and accurate. Hardly any vibrations and they are only at low RPMs. My old FD had polyurethane mounts with an ETB and a diff brace. Vibration was worse from the ETB and overall the car felt less solid. For me, the solid motor and diff mounts made a big difference to the overall feel of the car.
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fortunately there is an easy fix. i have run it since 99. i highly recommend David Garfinkle's Engine Torque Brace (EBT).
the Garfinkle EBT is correctly designed in that it transfers all of the twist to the chassis in the same longitudinal plane as the motor mounts.
the Garfinkle EBT is correctly designed in that it transfers all of the twist to the chassis in the same longitudinal plane as the motor mounts.
#13
wannaspeed.com
iTrader: (23)
I had some so so stock mounts that were repaired with a more rigid rubber, but i still had drivetrain issues with wheel hop and clunking, also broke my PPF. I made some poly mounts for the differential and that helped the clunking, i also made a very rigid tranny brace and that took care of everything at the engine and tranny. my motor/tranny are completely solid. No missed shifts, no more wheel hop, no clunking, and no bad vibration. I also reinforced the PPF, but with the braces i have its barely even used anymore, just more or less lines things up.
#17
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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I don’t have any real data, but I have had two 400whp FDs with slightly different set-ups.
My current FD has solid engine mounts (Delrin mounts from Defined Autoworks), solid diff mounts, and a diff brace. I love this set-up . The drivetrain is very tight and the shifting is crisp and accurate. Hardly any vibrations and they are only at low RPMs. My old FD had polyurethane mounts with an ETB and a diff brace. Vibration was worse from the ETB and overall the car felt less solid. For me, the solid motor and diff mounts made a big difference to the overall feel of the car.
My current FD has solid engine mounts (Delrin mounts from Defined Autoworks), solid diff mounts, and a diff brace. I love this set-up . The drivetrain is very tight and the shifting is crisp and accurate. Hardly any vibrations and they are only at low RPMs. My old FD had polyurethane mounts with an ETB and a diff brace. Vibration was worse from the ETB and overall the car felt less solid. For me, the solid motor and diff mounts made a big difference to the overall feel of the car.
Are ya coming to the Carlisi event at Gordon's place in PA in August?
I agree with your assessment, I am a big fan of the poly motor mounts/diff brace/ diff bushings with no ETB. The ones I've run induced mucho vibration but I hear the Garfinkle brace is designed to minimize this.
#18
Rotary Freak
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So you bought Max's old FD out of Canada, nice car
Are ya coming to the Carlisi event at Gordon's place in PA in August?
I agree with your assessment, I am a big fan of the poly motor mounts/diff brace/ diff bushings with no ETB. The ones I've run induced mucho vibration but I hear the Garfinkle brace is designed to minimize this.
Are ya coming to the Carlisi event at Gordon's place in PA in August?
I agree with your assessment, I am a big fan of the poly motor mounts/diff brace/ diff bushings with no ETB. The ones I've run induced mucho vibration but I hear the Garfinkle brace is designed to minimize this.
#20
F'n Newbie...
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http://www.dragonperformance.co.uk/products_rx7.htm
#24
Senior Member
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I'm on stock turbos so Im nowhere near your power level, but here are my finding with the braces, mounts.
Last year, I had Mazdaspeed engine and differential mounts, plus the Banzai Racing diff brace installed at the same time. I have a 50K mile car, but I was able to notice the car being "tighter". The only problem I noticed was when deaccelerating(no matter the gear) down to from about 2K-1.5K rpms, the car would start to buck. The lower the revs got, the worse the bucking. I installed the ETB from Gotham Racing, and BINGO, it got rid of it.
Last year, I had Mazdaspeed engine and differential mounts, plus the Banzai Racing diff brace installed at the same time. I have a 50K mile car, but I was able to notice the car being "tighter". The only problem I noticed was when deaccelerating(no matter the gear) down to from about 2K-1.5K rpms, the car would start to buck. The lower the revs got, the worse the bucking. I installed the ETB from Gotham Racing, and BINGO, it got rid of it.