Automatic's answer to a manual...
I won't let go
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,872
Likes: 23
From: Chi -> Maidstone
Originally Posted by hardbodeez
Pull better, no, the gearset in the stock 5 speed is a lower ratio than a t350, and anyone than can powershift makes it a pretty close race.
You put old technology in a newer car, and you shoulda went 700r4 and had an overdrive also, with a better 1st gear and minimal slippage in the converter rather than the ton you're gonna have.
You put old technology in a newer car, and you shoulda went 700r4 and had an overdrive also, with a better 1st gear and minimal slippage in the converter rather than the ton you're gonna have.
Stock Auto.
1st 3.027
2nd 1.619
3rd 1.000
4th 0.694
TH700-R4
1st 3.06
2nd 1.62
3rd 1.00
4th 0.70
I've had a 350 as well. Pull harder? Probably. I can see where the shorter first gear could be a problem. After my last post I looked into it a bit. With the stock rear from an auto, you're looking at an over all ratio of 11.93 on the stocker compared to 9.83 on the 350. First on the stick is 3.483. That with a 4.10 rear = 14.28 overall first=much higher chance you're going to spin the **** outta your wheels. That's a fact. Plus, If you have a car that's drag prepped, I'd like to see you run the 1/4 as CONSISTANT with a stick as an auto. You think it's better, then why does just about everyone run an auto, or some variation of it?
I agree that streetability has gone out the window. He can probably top out at maybe 120 at redline if he's lucky (I had a 78 Camaro that topped at 100 at about 6K...though I can't remember what rear end I had). But how fast he gets there...he'll be quick I think if he has the power behind it.
Last edited by Railgun69; Jun 9, 2005 at 10:06 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 944
Likes: 0
From: King of Prussia, PA/Margate, NJ
Originally Posted by hardbodeez
I've had old 4 speeds and 3 speed autos with huge converters, and driving around revving and slipping sucks, there is no fun to that. The stock 5 speed is great, unless you make it even better with a 6 speed.
By the way, I was at KDR when they were making a mounting plate for your tranny, and I saw what they had to do
.
No your car woun't launch harder....with a stick it's a variable stall, I can launch at 8000rpm, you can only launch as high as your stall converter.
Pull better, no, the gearset in the stock 5 speed is a lower ratio than a t350, and anyone than can powershift makes it a pretty close race.
You put old technology in a newer car, and you shoulda went 700r4 and had an overdrive also, with a better 1st gear and minimal slippage in the converter rather than the ton you're gonna have.
The only benefit you could hope for is having a huge stall, which with the tranny you chose means you'll ride around with that converter slipping constantly, and no overdrive to boot. This means you took all the top speed outta your car, which will now get crushed on the highway, you won't be able to keep up the revs in highspeed cornering, and your gas mileage will totally blow with the bigger converter, and no overdrive.
So you made the car a drag car for what....your car that runs what....low 13's high 12's? The only way I see doing this is when your motor is overpowering your tranny, which is not so since people are running 10's on that stock 5 speed. Or, if you're running a ton of spray and can't shift in time, which I don't think you are.
If you were a drag only car runnning 9's, went to a this or a powerglide(like someone we know) and the car picked up a few tenths, then I'd say it's worth it.
For now, personally, I think you took the fun out of the car. And I think having the stock 5 speed with a good clutch would have made the most of your money.
By the way, I was at KDR when they were making a mounting plate for your tranny, and I saw what they had to do
.
No your car woun't launch harder....with a stick it's a variable stall, I can launch at 8000rpm, you can only launch as high as your stall converter.
Pull better, no, the gearset in the stock 5 speed is a lower ratio than a t350, and anyone than can powershift makes it a pretty close race.
You put old technology in a newer car, and you shoulda went 700r4 and had an overdrive also, with a better 1st gear and minimal slippage in the converter rather than the ton you're gonna have.
The only benefit you could hope for is having a huge stall, which with the tranny you chose means you'll ride around with that converter slipping constantly, and no overdrive to boot. This means you took all the top speed outta your car, which will now get crushed on the highway, you won't be able to keep up the revs in highspeed cornering, and your gas mileage will totally blow with the bigger converter, and no overdrive.
So you made the car a drag car for what....your car that runs what....low 13's high 12's? The only way I see doing this is when your motor is overpowering your tranny, which is not so since people are running 10's on that stock 5 speed. Or, if you're running a ton of spray and can't shift in time, which I don't think you are.
If you were a drag only car runnning 9's, went to a this or a powerglide(like someone we know) and the car picked up a few tenths, then I'd say it's worth it.
For now, personally, I think you took the fun out of the car. And I think having the stock 5 speed with a good clutch would have made the most of your money.
about pulling better...with the auto I'm not loosing boost between shifts...aw forget this...
I was only posting this setup to show people there are DIFFERENT ways of doing things...I'm not going to sit here and waste my time replying to all the people that think the 5-speed is the ONLY way to go...Yes, the car pulls extremely hard, yes, it will launch GREAT, blah, blah, blah....
please only add to this thread if you are INTERESTED in this set up and want to know more about it...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 944
Likes: 0
From: King of Prussia, PA/Margate, NJ
ya, you do loose a lot of the top end...but seriously how often are you guys cruising at 120??? the one benifit of no overdrive is that you do drive the car slower on the highway...which is a good thing in my eyes....less tickets -> lower insurance...more money to put into the car...
sure it'll get beat in a street race on the highway...but I didn't buy or set the car up to be a street racer...there's a track for that...
sure it'll get beat in a street race on the highway...but I didn't buy or set the car up to be a street racer...there's a track for that...
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 545
Likes: 2
From: Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by TeamChin
there is a HUGE difference between launching a 5-speed with the clutch and launching with a trans-brake...good luck launching at 8K...
about pulling better...with the auto I'm not loosing boost between shifts...aw forget this...
I was only posting this setup to show people there are DIFFERENT ways of doing things...I'm not going to sit here and waste my time replying to all the people that think the 5-speed is the ONLY way to go...Yes, the car pulls extremely hard, yes, it will launch GREAT, blah, blah, blah....
please only add to this thread if you are INTERESTED in this set up and want to know more about it...
about pulling better...with the auto I'm not loosing boost between shifts...aw forget this...
I was only posting this setup to show people there are DIFFERENT ways of doing things...I'm not going to sit here and waste my time replying to all the people that think the 5-speed is the ONLY way to go...Yes, the car pulls extremely hard, yes, it will launch GREAT, blah, blah, blah....
please only add to this thread if you are INTERESTED in this set up and want to know more about it...
Gimmie a freakin break. Please buddy I've ran these trannies before, many people have. The non-overdrive 3 speeds, suck **** unless you're only driving 20 miles at a time, or racing it, and you're not, so, why the heak do you have a tranny brake in there? You put in a drag style tranny so why not race it, what is your motive??
I was using launching at 8k as an example. I never said a 5 speed was the only way to go, I said it depends on what you want to do with the car, and in your case you're not dragging it so why lose the overdrive? You're not racing it so why have a tranny brake? A well built 700r4 would have been a smarter move in what you actually want to do with the car. IMO manual valve body trannies are a pita to drive around with because you're shifting all the time and it's not even a stick car.
When you can make more pro's than con's for having this tranny, then it will be a reasonable arguement, other than me losing 1 pound of boost on a powershift to your keeping it with an auto.
You did what you wanted to do, that's great, don't get mad if people come on here, don't agree with you, and tell you all the bad points (from personal expereince) to doing this. Better yet, try bolting one of those overdrive units on the back of the tranny. You should be open to constructive criticism.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 545
Likes: 2
From: Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by Railgun69
The stock auto and 700 are very close in ratios. (Sorry for the formatting)
Stock Auto.
1st 3.027
2nd 1.619
3rd 1.000
4th 0.694
TH700-R4
1st 3.06
2nd 1.62
3rd 1.00
4th 0.70
I've had a 350 as well. Pull harder? Probably. I can see where the shorter first gear could be a problem. After my last post I looked into it a bit. With the stock rear from an auto, you're looking at an over all ratio of 11.93 on the stocker compared to 9.83 on the 350. First on the stick is 3.483. That with a 4.10 rear = 14.28 overall first=much higher chance you're going to spin the **** outta your wheels. That's a fact. Plus, If you have a car that's drag prepped, I'd like to see you run the 1/4 as CONSISTANT with a stick as an auto. You think it's better, then why does just about everyone run an auto, or some variation of it?
I agree that streetability has gone out the window. He can probably top out at maybe 120 at redline if he's lucky (I had a 78 Camaro that topped at 100 at about 6K...though I can't remember what rear end I had). But how fast he gets there...he'll be quick I think if he has the power behind it.
Stock Auto.
1st 3.027
2nd 1.619
3rd 1.000
4th 0.694
TH700-R4
1st 3.06
2nd 1.62
3rd 1.00
4th 0.70
I've had a 350 as well. Pull harder? Probably. I can see where the shorter first gear could be a problem. After my last post I looked into it a bit. With the stock rear from an auto, you're looking at an over all ratio of 11.93 on the stocker compared to 9.83 on the 350. First on the stick is 3.483. That with a 4.10 rear = 14.28 overall first=much higher chance you're going to spin the **** outta your wheels. That's a fact. Plus, If you have a car that's drag prepped, I'd like to see you run the 1/4 as CONSISTANT with a stick as an auto. You think it's better, then why does just about everyone run an auto, or some variation of it?
I agree that streetability has gone out the window. He can probably top out at maybe 120 at redline if he's lucky (I had a 78 Camaro that topped at 100 at about 6K...though I can't remember what rear end I had). But how fast he gets there...he'll be quick I think if he has the power behind it.
What are you talking about spin the **** outta your wheels? You're at the track on slicks right...you're talking about a drag car, consistency, good tires. If you're talking about the street, my drag radials hook like a bastard. It's annoying cause the car pulls to every divot in the road. You can't launch at 5000 with them, but I can hook with a good 3000rpm launch with my bfg drag radials...275/35/18's. Back when my car had the stock twins I went 12.00's @117mph with them, with no burnout at all at the track, and a 2 grand launch. The small sidewall sucked for a hard launch, but I didn't have my ET streets at the time, and it's a good time for no launch and no burnout.
Yes damn straight the car is more consistent with an auto, you're definately right, that's the reason drag cars use autos, easier on parts and more consistent. But he's not gonna drag the car at all.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Not that I necessarily agree with what he did. I respect the fact that it's his money and his car and I think the rest of you should. So what if you wouldn't do it. It's still interesting, nonetheless, to see what a car setup like this is capable of and the limitations imposed on the car by doing this setup.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 944
Likes: 0
From: King of Prussia, PA/Margate, NJ
Originally Posted by hardbodeez
Gimmie a freakin break. Please buddy I've ran these trannies before, many people have. The non-overdrive 3 speeds, suck **** unless you're only driving 20 miles at a time, or racing it, and you're not, so, why the heak do you have a tranny brake in there? You put in a drag style tranny so why not race it, what is your motive??
I was using launching at 8k as an example. I never said a 5 speed was the only way to go, I said it depends on what you want to do with the car, and in your case you're not dragging it so why lose the overdrive? You're not racing it so why have a tranny brake? A well built 700r4 would have been a smarter move in what you actually want to do with the car. IMO manual valve body trannies are a pita to drive around with because you're shifting all the time and it's not even a stick car.
When you can make more pro's than con's for having this tranny, then it will be a reasonable arguement, other than me losing 1 pound of boost on a powershift to your keeping it with an auto.
You did what you wanted to do, that's great, don't get mad if people come on here, don't agree with you, and tell you all the bad points (from personal expereince) to doing this. Better yet, try bolting one of those overdrive units on the back of the tranny. You should be open to constructive criticism.
I was using launching at 8k as an example. I never said a 5 speed was the only way to go, I said it depends on what you want to do with the car, and in your case you're not dragging it so why lose the overdrive? You're not racing it so why have a tranny brake? A well built 700r4 would have been a smarter move in what you actually want to do with the car. IMO manual valve body trannies are a pita to drive around with because you're shifting all the time and it's not even a stick car.
When you can make more pro's than con's for having this tranny, then it will be a reasonable arguement, other than me losing 1 pound of boost on a powershift to your keeping it with an auto.
You did what you wanted to do, that's great, don't get mad if people come on here, don't agree with you, and tell you all the bad points (from personal expereince) to doing this. Better yet, try bolting one of those overdrive units on the back of the tranny. You should be open to constructive criticism.
I am not getting mad at people telling the bad points…I know there are a thousand different ways to do this…I am not trying to tell people this is the best and only setup you can run in the FD…I’m simply trying to provide information about the setup I have…I know there are a lot of people out there that are curious about it…I didn’t want this thread to turn into an argument about how auto’s suck and manuals rule…and quickly turn to 10 pages of b.s. which it is starting to become…
…best thing about this setup is, if down the road I do want to try an overdrive tranny…these trannys are so cheap for a few hundred dollars I could drop on in…
I won't let go
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,872
Likes: 23
From: Chi -> Maidstone
Originally Posted by vincentwashere
your gay you **** noob
Originally Posted by hardbodeez
What are you talking about spin the **** outta your wheels? You're at the track on slicks right......But he's not gonna drag the car at all.
Hi....
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: bay area
Originally Posted by vincentwashere
your gay you **** noob
.Jeremy
Check out my Mooseknuckle
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
All I can say, is I hope you never plan on selling that car, because you're cars "stock" on the resale market just took a nosedive.
I'd put a sticker on the side of that shifter that says "Big Earl"......Seriously that thing looks like a Mechanical Bull coming outa the center console.
I'd put a sticker on the side of that shifter that says "Big Earl"......Seriously that thing looks like a Mechanical Bull coming outa the center console.
Spoolin
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton Canada
Originally Posted by Monkman33
some autos shift faster than humans + manuals, This is the only reason I can see to go that way.
Or because you ahve to share the car with your mom...
My preference is manuals. But, if you like it, that is the key important factor. Enjoy your FD.
Or because you ahve to share the car with your mom...
My preference is manuals. But, if you like it, that is the key important factor. Enjoy your FD.
ya the bmw smg but not this chevy crap
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,243
Likes: 42
From: Kennewick, Washington
Originally Posted by No-Pistons-TT
ya the bmw smg but not this chevy crap
I honestly dont know alot about autos, I have just heard that some are faster shifting..
And dont they hold boost in between shifts too?
This is about the extent of my knowledge about autos..
Oh, and my mom drives one.
I won't let go
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,872
Likes: 23
From: Chi -> Maidstone
Originally Posted by No-Pistons-TT
ya the bmw smg but not this chevy crap
3rd motors a charm I hope
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
From: Central New York
Good job on doing something different that suits your likings. But, I think i'll keep my stick. I just dont feel you can have as much fun driving an automatic. Everytime I drive an auto car, I feel like im forgetting something. Good luck with your new setup.
Adam
Adam
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 805
Likes: 0
From: springfield MO
when did they start making addapter plates to fit a th series tranny to a rotary? i know they have made them for some time to bolt up to 2jz's because i have been looking into them. 2j's have tq and rotarys dont so how well is that one working? also did you have to cut the tranny tunnel at all?
Spoolin
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton Canada
Originally Posted by Railgun69
Ever driven with a built 350, 400 or 700R? They're fast. The SMG from BMW isn't some super trans. Haven't driven with the latter yet, but I hope to soon.
The SMG tranney in the m3 can shift faster than any other traney in the world in a production car.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,243
Likes: 42
From: Kennewick, Washington
Originally Posted by vincentwashere
your gay you **** noob
We should go over a quick grammar lesson. If you wish to insult me, at least have the respect to use English correctly.
Here is what you should have typed:
You're gay you ****-noob.
There, was that so hard. Maybe next time you'll just not try at all.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,243
Likes: 42
From: Kennewick, Washington
Originally Posted by No-Pistons-TT
The SMG tranney in the m3 can shift faster than any other traney in the world in a production car.
What about the Audi dual clutch transmission? I think overlapping shifts are probably "technically" faster than conventional shifting. Since this would mean a shift time in the negatives... :P
The only exception would be when you are going from 2-4 or 4-6 or 1-3 or 3-5, since the gear sets are 1-3-5 on one side and 2-4-6 on the other.
Anywho, I'll shut up now.
BTW, I respect that you went a different route on your car, as long as you like it, that's ALL that matters.