jeez, you've gotta run all your posts through the legal dept. before hitting the "post" button...

You know exactly what I mean, and I get the sense that you must agree to some extent, or wouldn't be spending the effort that you are on transplanting your V8 powerplant into said "platform"...

I believe my point stands that factories are selling cars with parts that would NEVER have been considered 10 years ago, and amount to little more than the aftermarket bolt ons folks used to pay a little extra for... hence the power levels, and in manyt cases reliability issues we're seeing w/ modern factory hotrods.... STi's, Z06s, E46 M3's, Vipers, and the parts mention are prime examples.

Note: for the most part, I was AGREEING with you.

 

You are certainly an exception . Your abilities to constantly break things on the car other than the engine must certainly still require a great amount of skill

Seems I recall lots of vosko pics showing various "catastrophic failures" In particular a pic of a diff that looked like it had been split in half with a giant axe

 

As for the idea of 10 years of development in the FD:

Mazda gave us the Renesis 10 years after the 13B-REW. Completely unimpressive power and to go along with that it gets terrible gas mileage; that is not cutting edge performance in today's marketplace IMO.

But what about when(if?) they turbo the Renesis you say? Well then you'll have an engine that may or may not have the same problems as the 13B-REW but will in the least still have worse gas mileage compared to competitors' motors.

 

alot of luck went into that........might be good luck might be bad i have no idea.....i do know that my FD is now just a rolling chassis sitting in the driveway

 

You're right, and I totally agree with you about the platform being exceptionally good for building upon, even today. The point I'm trying to make is that it must be built upon to remain competitive, and these days, considerably so. It's been a long time since a stock FD could take on all comers in the sports car arena.

I know, but the comment was far too good to pass up.

 

The renesis engine is a big improvement. Mazda was able to increase HP significantly, without forced induction. How many other manufacturers can boast a 30% (or whatever it is) increase in HP without turbo/super charging the engine. When/if they put it in a sports car (4th gen RX7) they will have to do better to keep pace with the others.

You are right, the gas mileage is still crummy. But gas mileage takes a back seat when you are talking about high performance cars.

 

You can't look at rotary development in the same light as piston developement. First the rotary department was shut down for a while and only continued with the die hard engineers who did it on their own time. Then there's the fact that Mazda is the only one developing it for the automotive market. Not to mention that the reciprocating engine has been around about 50 years longer. That being said, I'm disapointed in the new renisis engine as well. Just hope that Mazda will start producing a larger displacement two rotor than the 13B and we might see some numbers we'll like. And though I don't recall all the numbers so feel free to prove me wrong, I'm not under the impression that the mpg is that much worse than it's competition, but I'm to lazy to look them up.

And you really can't compare the FD to anything new. Stock for stock, it'll get trounced eventually. Comparing stock for modified just isn't fair. Most modified FD's go out of legal road worthiness so you're already out of comparison parameters. To much to go into comparison.

The end all.....The FD will always be a great performer, just not the best forever.

 

If I wanted to make this a real argument I could say that it is of course always easier to improve an inferior product...When there's lots of room for improvement it is of course easier to improve.

Also realize the time frame. 10 years ago 4 bangers were 2+ liters and 150 hp was a lot to get out of one. Now there are 1.8 liter Integras everywhere with almost 200 hp. I don't think that makes a 30% improvement in NA rotary horsepower seem steller at all.

...and I ain't rotary hatin! I just think we all too often have a failure of perspective

 

Rx-8 mileage is dismal. EPA quoted as 18 city/24 hwy but most car owners are getting far less than that.

A great big "low tech" American v-8 with pushrods and only 16 valves making 405 horsepower in a Chevy Z06 gets 19 city/28 hwy!

The Renesis gets TERRIBLE gas mileage. Go see what the guys at www.rx8club.com have to say about it...

 

25 years ago the 1st gen RX7 came out with around 100 HP. That was considered to be pretty good power in it's day. Now you get more than that in an econobox.

Hopefully Mazda has something special planned for the next RX7. You would think that it would have to be a lightweight car with 400 fwhp. Of course, a highly modded FD would kick its ***............

 

I ain't against wishing! I hope so!

 

No way! Maybe about 5% of the people on the mailing list disagreed with you. And that wasn't the jist of the debate. Almost nobody is that stupid to think a mildly modified FD will beat a stock Z06.

BTW, I'm enjoying my classic car.


-Jeff

 

Perhaps, but I don't remember anyone in that 5% agreeing with me.

I wish I'd saved those e-mails. Some of the contortions people will go through to try to justify their point of view are just hilarious.

 

A heavily modded FD can eat a Z06. Like one with an aftermarket turbo.

 

Some people just don't get it, do they? *sigh*

 

My moms 71 Cuda was a classic (don't ask if it was a hemi or what engine--I won't ask as it should have been mine and instead my cousin wrecked it and it hurts too bad). But its technology is 30 years old, so its no longer desirable--is that the logic we are dealing with. I certainly don't think of the FD in the "classic" terms, yet. But it is among the great japanese supercars of the early to mid 90's and that qualifies it. And modding it to keep up with the current crop of great cars is each owners perogative. Of course there are other cars I would rather have. But not more than a handful. And for most people the FD is actually too fast in stock form for gods sake.

 

The great thing about the RX is the displacment 1.3 liter come on the specific out put is unreal. There is no other car that producees 196 hp per liter stock anywhere, its flat out the best thing going. Undisputed king of specific output.

 

Only using Mazda's displacement rating system for rotary engines.

If you want to compare a rotary engine to a piston engine, you have to double the displacement because the piston engine's displacement is calculated from two revolutions of the crankshaft, not one. 1.3 liters suddenly becomes 2.6 liters, and the output is now only 98 horsepower per liter. There are plenty of modern 4-cylinder engines that can match or beat that. For example, the Honda S2000's 2.0 liter engine pumps out 240 horsepower, or 120 horsepower per liter. Naturally aspirated.

I won't even get into how useless power per liter figures are in relation to actual vehicle performance.

 

The RX-7 was never the fastest car around, even in 1993. The Z06 is faster now but the ZR1 was in 1993.
The Viper is faster than the RX-7 now but so was the viper in 1993. (straight line).
The RX-7 pulled almost a G on the skidpad 10 years ago and braked quite well. (remember the tires were not as sticky as today either). Cars are getting faster, much faster. There are newer cars like the 03 cobra, the new C6 even sedans that are street missles. Sure a stock RX-7 will get beat in a straight line by many newer cars but a 5 second 0-60 is no slouch.
Bolt on Rx-7 perform as well as bolt on cobras. They are still competive even after 10 years which says a lot about the platform. Technology will continue to produce faster better performing cars which is good for everyone.

 

True, and well said.

 

I love the fd and I don't give a **** who can beat me or who I can beat. Its not about the numbers but the feeling I get when I drive it that makes it special. Oh and its not too shabby looking either.

If you have something bad to say about the fd then start your own thread because this thread is about the love not the hate.

 

I second that!!

 

I guess I should brush up on my rx8 knowledge. I thought it at least got 20mpg city. That is pretty dismal considering the HP/Torque out of the FD and it was getting 17/22 I think. And to think that that was supposed to be one of the great benifits of that side port exhaust. What a crock.

Greg

 

Sorry Fritz, didn't know it was your thread.

 

The world is MINE all MINE and your just some nuisance I have to put up with