appreciate just how fast an fd is
11-24-03, 10:25 AM
#26
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Originally posted by jimlab
I notice they didn't say "forever"... although some people seem to believe that anything said about the RX-7 is indefinitely true...
I notice they didn't say "forever"... although some people seem to believe that anything said about the RX-7 is indefinitely true...
The FD is a great car, but the world is full of great cars.
I have never understood either the ego stroking that goes on when a modded FD outruns something "better" (Porsche, Ferrari, Viper, etc). No comparison is ever fair once the cars have been modded.
Here's some remarks I made in the Elise vs FD thread:
You see, if any car is faster than an FD then:The FD is one of the best handling cars on the road! If any car handles better than the FD then: The FD is one of the fastest cars on the road! If any car is faster AND handles better then: The FD doesn't cost near as much! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper then: Your car is not rotary powered, and rotaries are better! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper AND is rotary powered then: I had boost troubles! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper AND is..........it just continues on forever
11-24-03, 10:29 AM
#27
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Originally posted by GoodfellaFD3S
I'm making 400 the wheels, and outaccelerating the likes of the SRT-10 and Murcielago *while on pump gas.* I don't think these other fictional 500 (f?)whp cars will do that.
I'm making 400 the wheels, and outaccelerating the likes of the SRT-10 and Murcielago *while on pump gas.* I don't think these other fictional 500 (f?)whp cars will do that.
Seems the high power rotary guys just view the rotary engine as a consumable
your gonna jynx me
11-24-03, 10:42 AM
#29
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Originally posted by DamonB
I would love to hear from a 400 to the wheels FD guy who has not blown up a motor(s). Are there any?
Seems the high power rotary guys just view the rotary engine as a consumable
I would love to hear from a 400 to the wheels FD guy who has not blown up a motor(s). Are there any?
Seems the high power rotary guys just view the rotary engine as a consumable
Oh, and it's not the engine itself that is consumable (I have only purchased one reman motor)......just the apex seals
11-24-03, 10:54 AM
#30
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Doesn't it suffice to say we have fast cars (even stock quicker than 95+% of the cars on the road)? And can't we just admit that the FD is beautiful to look at, and the handling is fantastic? I think arguments only arise over unsubstantiated superlatives and comparisons. Only one car can be the "fastest" or "best"; I'm content with being very competitive on all counts, especially for the relatively low $$$ required to own this fine performance car.
11-24-03, 10:59 AM
#31
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Originally posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Oh, and it's not the engine itself that is consumable....just the apex seals
Oh, and it's not the engine itself that is consumable....just the apex seals
Unfortunately you can't just bolt on new apex seals but have to remove the motor and tear the whole danged thing completely apart.
Now granted with the number of engines some guys around here blow up, there are some who can do all that pretty quickly. You know, practice makes perfect!
11-24-03, 11:15 AM
#34
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Originally posted by DamonB
LOL! That seems to be the trend...
You see, if any car is faster than an FD then:The FD is one of the best handling cars on the road! If any car handles better than the FD then: The FD is one of the fastest cars on the road! If any car is faster AND handles better then: The FD doesn't cost near as much! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper then: Your car is not rotary powered, and rotaries are better! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper AND is rotary powered then: I had boost troubles! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper AND is..........it just continues on forever
LOL! That seems to be the trend...
You see, if any car is faster than an FD then:The FD is one of the best handling cars on the road! If any car handles better than the FD then: The FD is one of the fastest cars on the road! If any car is faster AND handles better then: The FD doesn't cost near as much! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper then: Your car is not rotary powered, and rotaries are better! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper AND is rotary powered then: I had boost troubles! If any car is faster AND handles better AND is cheaper AND is..........it just continues on forever
You make a good point, but at the same time you can go to any other car forum, or any other group of people with a similar interest, and there will always be similar sentiments. People will always have pride for what's close to them, and in the end that's a great thing. We're happy, they're happy, everybody's happy! (even the Honda guys feel special)
11-24-03, 11:21 AM
#35
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Originally posted by XSTransAm
Dont get me wrong, im not downplaying the fd any. But it will never be classified as a "supercar" except for in our minds.
Dont get me wrong, im not downplaying the fd any. But it will never be classified as a "supercar" except for in our minds.
11-24-03, 11:33 AM
#36
No it's not Turbo'd
I'm on the same page as DamonB....
If you take a shitbrick like a Yugo ( Remember Those ? ) and stick a Supra Engine (Not if you want to fin in it as well) in it and stick a t88 into it, make 800 HP to the wheels, if you could keep them on the ground you'd beat just about anything out there, and kill youself on the first run, since it'd go airborne into a concrete barrier.... The Subject isn't for how little you can buy something then sink 20K into it to make it unbeatable... If you're gonna make a comparison, you have to look at the total "Stock" picture... or else it's not a comparrison it's an oppinion / matter of money...
The Exiege, for instance will kick the Elise's ***, why? it's got NOTHING inside !!! When you're driving with your Siginificant other, you at least want some tunes, and possibly a little more trunk space than a glove compartment... (Unless you're only packing clothes for your Other then a glove compartment might be too big ) .... anyhow there are Race cars that are disguised as street cars, and street cars disguised as race cars, I like my 7 for beeing a race car, disguised as a street car...
My Rant .....
If you take a shitbrick like a Yugo ( Remember Those ?
) and stick a Supra Engine (Not if you want to fin in it as well) in it and stick a t88 into it, make 800 HP to the wheels, if you could keep them on the ground you'd beat just about anything out there, and kill youself on the first run, since it'd go airborne into a concrete barrier.... The Subject isn't for how little you can buy something then sink 20K into it to make it unbeatable... If you're gonna make a comparison, you have to look at the total "Stock" picture... or else it's not a comparrison it's an oppinion / matter of money... The Exiege, for instance will kick the Elise's ***, why? it's got NOTHING inside !!! When you're driving with your Siginificant other, you at least want some tunes, and possibly a little more trunk space than a glove compartment... (Unless you're only packing clothes for your Other then a glove compartment might be too big
) .... anyhow there are Race cars that are disguised as street cars, and street cars disguised as race cars, I like my 7 for beeing a race car, disguised as a street car... My Rant .....
11-24-03, 11:37 AM
#37
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by johnisenglish
you can go to any other car forum, or any other group of people with a similar interest, and there will always be similar sentiments. People will always have pride for what's close to them
you can go to any other car forum, or any other group of people with a similar interest, and there will always be similar sentiments. People will always have pride for what's close to them
I think you summed it up best already:
Yeah! Well my dad can beat up your dad!
11-24-03, 11:40 AM
#38
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by DCrosby
The Subject isn't for how little you can buy something then sink 20K into it to make it unbeatable...
The Subject isn't for how little you can buy something then sink 20K into it to make it unbeatable...
GRM Challenge Results 2003
Last edited by DamonB; 11-24-03 at 11:43 AM.
11-24-03, 12:23 PM
#40
I sure have been happy with my FD. It has given me great pleasure over the last two years (since I bought it). I believe that an well treated FD will go the direction of the AC Cobra, as far as value goes. Maybe I will sell mine in 20 years, and retire on the money .
This thread isn't about who can mod cars how much, to make them better than something else. It's about an appreciation for the FD. Sure to be a classic!!
.This thread isn't about who can mod cars how much, to make them better than something else. It's about an appreciation for the FD. Sure to be a classic!!
11-24-03, 12:41 PM
#41
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Originally posted by jimlab
Better start calling it a classic.
Oh well, you can't win 'em all. Enjoy your classic.
Better start calling it a classic.
Oh well, you can't win 'em all. Enjoy your classic.
Same attitude you had on the RX-7 list years ago. Doesn't it get hard constantly trouncing on other's happiness, whether it's fantasy or not?
11-24-03, 01:16 PM
#43
Super Snuggles
Originally posted by WaLieN
I don't think Jim *despies* FD's, rather, he just dislikes the Rotary.
I don't think Jim *despies* FD's, rather, he just dislikes the Rotary.
Time and progress march on, and like it or not, the FD is going to increasingly suffer by comparison with modern sports cars without extensive modifications to keep it in roughly the same power to weight range. While it is undeniably true that it was an extraordinary car in its day, we're no longer living in 1993...
11-24-03, 01:20 PM
#44
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Originally posted by DamonB
I would love to hear from a 400 to the wheels FD guy who has not blown up a motor(s). Are there any?
Seems the high power rotary guys just view the rotary engine as a consumable
I would love to hear from a 400 to the wheels FD guy who has not blown up a motor(s). Are there any?
Seems the high power rotary guys just view the rotary engine as a consumable
11-24-03, 01:26 PM
#45
Super Snuggles
Originally posted by clayne
Always the ****-starting pessimist, eh Jim?
Always the ****-starting pessimist, eh Jim?
Same attitude you had on the RX-7 list years ago. Doesn't it get hard constantly trouncing on other's happiness, whether it's fantasy or not?
11-24-03, 01:34 PM
#46
Super Snuggles
Originally posted by unixpilot
Just do us ALL a favor and sell [your] rolling bucket of bolts that will never run under its own power. (Your post to actual progress ratio is about 443,212:1)
Just do us ALL a favor and sell [your] rolling bucket of bolts that will never run under its own power. (Your post to actual progress ratio is about 443,212:1)
11-24-03, 01:35 PM
#47
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Originally posted by unixpilot
Just do us ALL a favor and sell rolling bucket of bolts that will never run under its own power. (Your post to actual progress ratio is about 443,212:1)
Then you can hang out on the z06 and corvette forums, or better yet start your own blog (which is essentially what your 5,000 thread post is)
I never understood why you have so much despise for the FD and gladly take any opportunity to bash it.
Just do us ALL a favor and sell rolling bucket of bolts that will never run under its own power. (Your post to actual progress ratio is about 443,212:1)
Then you can hang out on the z06 and corvette forums, or better yet start your own blog (which is essentially what your 5,000 thread post is)
I never understood why you have so much despise for the FD and gladly take any opportunity to bash it.
Well said. I was thinking the same thing...
11-24-03, 01:43 PM
#48
Jim's right, the FD as produced in 1993 to 1995 just isn't world class anymore, alot has changed, particularly with the power that modern cars come with. Its just a different time.
That said, the "platform" is still very much in the world class ballpark, which is more than you can say for virtually anything produced that long ago.
When I think about the 17" wheels, stainless exhaust, and revised intake/intercooling parts i've added, I realize they are little more than the type of improvements Mazda COULD have made in 10 years, and that are rather commonplace on the modern factory hotrods that outperform the original car.... and my car still has emissions controls in place, and passes its tests.
Witness the titanium exhaust and 295/18 tires, magnesium rims, and modern engine management that come on modern C5s/Z06s. Front mounted intercoolers, brembo brakes and IC water sprayers that come on STi's and EVos, superchargers on Cobras, the list goes on.
The "mods" on my car are really no more extreme than the par-for-the-course stuff that makes modern cars so "superior"... and i'll still smoke most of them. Factory cars just come pre-modded now, thats all.
That said, the "platform" is still very much in the world class ballpark, which is more than you can say for virtually anything produced that long ago.
When I think about the 17" wheels, stainless exhaust, and revised intake/intercooling parts i've added, I realize they are little more than the type of improvements Mazda COULD have made in 10 years, and that are rather commonplace on the modern factory hotrods that outperform the original car.... and my car still has emissions controls in place, and passes its tests.
Witness the titanium exhaust and 295/18 tires, magnesium rims, and modern engine management that come on modern C5s/Z06s. Front mounted intercoolers, brembo brakes and IC water sprayers that come on STi's and EVos, superchargers on Cobras, the list goes on.
The "mods" on my car are really no more extreme than the par-for-the-course stuff that makes modern cars so "superior"... and i'll still smoke most of them. Factory cars just come pre-modded now, thats all.
Originally posted by jimlab
Better start calling it a classic.
I sparked a heated debate on the RX-7 mailing list by remarking that an FD had to be heavily modified to beat a stock Z06. Of course, everyone and their brother took offense... even though I was right.
It seemed that their definition of "heavily modified" differed from mine, and I never could get anyone to agree that upping boost by 4-5 psi, requiring at a minimum the reprogramming of the stock computer, an upgraded intercooler, and sabotaging the emissions equipment by replacing the entire exhaust system constituted "heavily modified". Apparently the accepted definition has changed, and these days only applies to either a single turbo upgrade or a 20B swap. The modifications I listed above are now just routine, it appears, and so is the $5,000 or more they would cost.
Regardless, the fact remains that an FD has to be extensively modified to hang with either a stock Z06 Corvette or Viper GTS, let alone beat one, yet people are so proud of their rotary performance. Well, what if the same money was spent on modifications for either of those two cars? Oh no, that's unfair... they cost more to begin with. It appears that a "fair" comparison will never be possible (or allowed) and some will never admit that their 3rd generation RX-7 might have shortcomings -- or stop making any number of excuses for them.
As the FD's heyday is left farther and farther in the past, and newer sports cars get faster and faster (485+ horsepower '06-'07 Z06 anyone?), I suppose that eventually even single turbos and 20B swaps will become just routine upgrades and will be justified by the decreasing cost of the FD and therefore the increasing "bang for the buck", a factor people like to extol when they can't afford the cars they're trying to prove theirs is better than, in my experience.
Oh well, you can't win 'em all. Enjoy your classic.
Better start calling it a classic.
I sparked a heated debate on the RX-7 mailing list by remarking that an FD had to be heavily modified to beat a stock Z06. Of course, everyone and their brother took offense... even though I was right.
It seemed that their definition of "heavily modified" differed from mine, and I never could get anyone to agree that upping boost by 4-5 psi, requiring at a minimum the reprogramming of the stock computer, an upgraded intercooler, and sabotaging the emissions equipment by replacing the entire exhaust system constituted "heavily modified". Apparently the accepted definition has changed, and these days only applies to either a single turbo upgrade or a 20B swap. The modifications I listed above are now just routine, it appears, and so is the $5,000 or more they would cost.
Regardless, the fact remains that an FD has to be extensively modified to hang with either a stock Z06 Corvette or Viper GTS, let alone beat one, yet people are so proud of their rotary performance. Well, what if the same money was spent on modifications for either of those two cars? Oh no, that's unfair... they cost more to begin with. It appears that a "fair" comparison will never be possible (or allowed) and some will never admit that their 3rd generation RX-7 might have shortcomings -- or stop making any number of excuses for them.
As the FD's heyday is left farther and farther in the past, and newer sports cars get faster and faster (485+ horsepower '06-'07 Z06 anyone?), I suppose that eventually even single turbos and 20B swaps will become just routine upgrades and will be justified by the decreasing cost of the FD and therefore the increasing "bang for the buck", a factor people like to extol when they can't afford the cars they're trying to prove theirs is better than, in my experience.
Oh well, you can't win 'em all. Enjoy your classic.
