anyone else interested in buying a kirk racing roll bar?
02-19-04, 01:58 PM
#76
DRFTRX7
SAFETY ISSUES
Hey Crackers,
The reason why the 6 point is less safe for street driving is that one good jolt to your car could send your head into the bar as it is the same height as the head. Unless you are wearing helmets all the time which I know I won't be this summer...you may just want to go with the 4 point. Also, I am 6 foot. But the thing you have to remember is that if you are ever thinking of relocating the battery (to a bin for example) you may want to look into that. I would get the bar that mounts into the bings, but my battery is sitting in the bin right behind the passenger seat...so I guess the passenger will just have to deal with it!!! LOL Most of my friends are tall, but they won't mind being a little uncomfortable...it's worth a ride in an rx7. If you need anything else, just ask...
Craig
BTW There are a lot of threads that talk about the safety issues of the 4-pt. v. the 6-pt. The search function works great as I used it when I loaded up on information (advantages and disadvantages) on roll bars.
The reason why the 6 point is less safe for street driving is that one good jolt to your car could send your head into the bar as it is the same height as the head. Unless you are wearing helmets all the time which I know I won't be this summer...you may just want to go with the 4 point. Also, I am 6 foot. But the thing you have to remember is that if you are ever thinking of relocating the battery (to a bin for example) you may want to look into that. I would get the bar that mounts into the bings, but my battery is sitting in the bin right behind the passenger seat...so I guess the passenger will just have to deal with it!!! LOL Most of my friends are tall, but they won't mind being a little uncomfortable...it's worth a ride in an rx7. If you need anything else, just ask...
Craig
BTW There are a lot of threads that talk about the safety issues of the 4-pt. v. the 6-pt. The search function works great as I used it when I loaded up on information (advantages and disadvantages) on roll bars.
02-19-04, 02:05 PM
#77
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Thanks for the info yah 4point for me.. and yeah I allready have my bat in my bin so Umm no way around that... hrumm
maybe I can cut a hole through the center of my bat... haha
maybe I can cut a hole through the center of my bat... haha
02-19-04, 03:56 PM
#78
My Custom Title > Your's
Thread Starter
My understanding is that she doesnt have pictures of the bar in the bins. I'd like to have a pic if anyone has that bar installed. She said its basically the same, just installed back some. I kind of think it would be ugly.
02-20-04, 03:34 PM
#80
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COsborne, i have a friend with a miata that might be interested in the roll bar. is there anyway you can find out the pricing and all the options for a miata. You can either post it up here or you can email me at Rotarybeast@hotmail.com
Shawn
'93 SSM Base
Shawn
'93 SSM Base
02-21-04, 10:33 AM
#81
DRFTRX7
Oh yeah, forgot to mention in my last post. I have a friend with a 1998 240sx. He really wants one as well...if the price is like ours...I'm pretty sure he will buy one. Let me know if you find anything. Thanks,
Craig
Craig
02-21-04, 04:56 PM
#82
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Originally posted by RotaryBeast
COsborne, i have a friend with a miata that might be interested in the roll bar. is there anyway you can find out the pricing and all the options for a miata. You can either post it up here or you can email me at Rotarybeast@hotmail.com
Shawn
'93 SSM Base
COsborne, i have a friend with a miata that might be interested in the roll bar. is there anyway you can find out the pricing and all the options for a miata. You can either post it up here or you can email me at Rotarybeast@hotmail.com
Shawn
'93 SSM Base
Regards,
--Ashraf
02-21-04, 05:49 PM
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I remember somebody posted pictures of the one that mounts in the bins on here somewhere. I will try to find the. After looking at the pictures again, of the one that mounts to the floor, I think it's going to cut out too much room from the passenger seat. I have a passenger with me about 50% of the time, and it looks ike the seatback will either have to be perdendicular to the ground, or their knees will be in the glove compartment. i'll see if i can find them....
02-21-04, 08:58 PM
#84
My Custom Title > Your's
Thread Starter
bond007... have you tried all the roll bars? I assume you have not. I suggest the kirk bar over the hard dog ALL day long. I've worked with both. in terms of price AND quality the kirk is superior or equal.
miata bar is 265. double diagnal 1 3/4" 4 pt. prefit bolt in. I am calling monday to confirm again that this bar is 99+ glass top compatible b/c most of the other miata scca approved bars are not.
miata bar is 265. double diagnal 1 3/4" 4 pt. prefit bolt in. I am calling monday to confirm again that this bar is 99+ glass top compatible b/c most of the other miata scca approved bars are not.
Last edited by COsborne; 02-21-04 at 09:01 PM.
02-24-04, 12:08 PM
#85
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This is getting off topic since we are talking about Miata bars, but it goes to the general rollbar discussion...and I'm not arguing that your assessment that dollar for dollar the Kirk is a better deal, but make sure that it will do all that you think it can. When you have the '99 cars, that glass window gets to be a compatability problem with certain bar designs. I have a '94 MX-5, so I have more options than the '99 folks.
I did plenty of research and looked at several Miata bars in person, sat in cars with bars, tested clearance with me sitting in there, with/without helmet, etc...etc...it was not an impulse buy. I do my homework thoroughly when purchasing equipment.
I'm trying to get out of the habit of badmouthing, but I have plenty of thoughts/experiences with this and am trying to emphasize good points of HD from my experience with them.
As for my background to make such assertions:
I've spent a good deal of time around some bar/cage fabrication at a SCCA co-op shop and know some of the tech stewards types personally and am the tech director for a local car club. I've installed 3 bars (2 FD, 1 Miata) to date and scrutinzed many other installs. Even with a "perfect jig" we found that the two FD bars required a different installation, even though they where same product/model.
I already had bought the FD bar two years ago, so this is the 2nd bar I personally researched and bought. One should consult the SCCA Solo handbook, because some folks are claiming their bars are Solo-I legal when they aren't (not going to point fingers).
I haven't seen a Kirk bar for the Miata so I can't comment on it because it seems like no one buys one. Just about every single Miata I've ever seen at an autocross or track day has a Hard Dog. They are the de-facto standard and are proven to work (crash tested with photos posted).
All I know is the Hard Dog was a heck of a lot easier install than the Kirk in the FD, and I did the install by myself in about 1/2 a day. Most folks note that a bar install usually takes two people.
I've had someone with a custom cage in their Spec Miata look at my bar and comment how good it was. Their cage wasn't made right and it was done by a good shop that did it as a one-off...
A lot has to be said for making more than one unit of a product. I've seen a custom bar made for a Miata that had seat travel and "head banging" issues. But there is more to those issues than just that one observation.
Hard Dog has it down to an exact science. If you go on the Miata forums/lists, Hard Dog is what everyone is referred to, for the exception of the dual hoop (Think Shelby) that another company makes.
I just went through a similar experience with a non-mainstream downpipe for a FD...just because it looks like it is the same, doesn't mean it is the same. For a Miata, I wouldn't bother getting anything but a Hard Dog. I don't think it is worth your time to look elsewhere, since they have put an extraordinary amount of design time to get it right, and Tom (the owner) can usually figure out exactly what you need based on a phone interview. I made my final selection at his shop, but it was what he and I discussed on the phone -- the Hard Core Hard Top, which gives me the most headroom, since it sits the highest up in the car.
But then, not every one wants to spend a little more to do it right the first time...to each his own...
--Ashraf
I did plenty of research and looked at several Miata bars in person, sat in cars with bars, tested clearance with me sitting in there, with/without helmet, etc...etc...it was not an impulse buy. I do my homework thoroughly when purchasing equipment.
I'm trying to get out of the habit of badmouthing, but I have plenty of thoughts/experiences with this and am trying to emphasize good points of HD from my experience with them.
As for my background to make such assertions:
I've spent a good deal of time around some bar/cage fabrication at a SCCA co-op shop and know some of the tech stewards types personally and am the tech director for a local car club. I've installed 3 bars (2 FD, 1 Miata) to date and scrutinzed many other installs. Even with a "perfect jig" we found that the two FD bars required a different installation, even though they where same product/model.
I already had bought the FD bar two years ago, so this is the 2nd bar I personally researched and bought. One should consult the SCCA Solo handbook, because some folks are claiming their bars are Solo-I legal when they aren't (not going to point fingers).
I haven't seen a Kirk bar for the Miata so I can't comment on it because it seems like no one buys one. Just about every single Miata I've ever seen at an autocross or track day has a Hard Dog. They are the de-facto standard and are proven to work (crash tested with photos posted).
All I know is the Hard Dog was a heck of a lot easier install than the Kirk in the FD, and I did the install by myself in about 1/2 a day. Most folks note that a bar install usually takes two people.
I've had someone with a custom cage in their Spec Miata look at my bar and comment how good it was. Their cage wasn't made right and it was done by a good shop that did it as a one-off...
A lot has to be said for making more than one unit of a product. I've seen a custom bar made for a Miata that had seat travel and "head banging" issues. But there is more to those issues than just that one observation.
Hard Dog has it down to an exact science. If you go on the Miata forums/lists, Hard Dog is what everyone is referred to, for the exception of the dual hoop (Think Shelby) that another company makes.
I just went through a similar experience with a non-mainstream downpipe for a FD...just because it looks like it is the same, doesn't mean it is the same. For a Miata, I wouldn't bother getting anything but a Hard Dog. I don't think it is worth your time to look elsewhere, since they have put an extraordinary amount of design time to get it right, and Tom (the owner) can usually figure out exactly what you need based on a phone interview. I made my final selection at his shop, but it was what he and I discussed on the phone -- the Hard Core Hard Top, which gives me the most headroom, since it sits the highest up in the car.
But then, not every one wants to spend a little more to do it right the first time...to each his own...
--Ashraf
Last edited by bond007; 02-24-04 at 12:20 PM.
02-24-04, 12:17 PM
#86
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Originally posted by Spool Up
I remember somebody posted pictures of the one that mounts in the bins on here somewhere. I will try to find the. After looking at the pictures again, of the one that mounts to the floor, I think it's going to cut out too much room from the passenger seat. I have a passenger with me about 50% of the time, and it looks ike the seatback will either have to be perdendicular to the ground, or their knees will be in the glove compartment. i'll see if i can find them....
I remember somebody posted pictures of the one that mounts in the bins on here somewhere. I will try to find the. After looking at the pictures again, of the one that mounts to the floor, I think it's going to cut out too much room from the passenger seat. I have a passenger with me about 50% of the time, and it looks ike the seatback will either have to be perdendicular to the ground, or their knees will be in the glove compartment. i'll see if i can find them....
--Ashraf
02-24-04, 09:08 PM
#87
My Custom Title > Your's
Thread Starter
I'm not exactly sure how you can compare installing a kirk bar in an fd to installing a hard dog bar in a miata. None the less your post was somewhat informative.
02-24-04, 10:28 PM
#88
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Originally posted by COsborne
I'm not exactly sure how you can compare installing a kirk bar in an fd to installing a hard dog bar in a miata. None the less your post was somewhat informative.
I'm not exactly sure how you can compare installing a kirk bar in an fd to installing a hard dog bar in a miata. None the less your post was somewhat informative.
I installed two Kirk bars on the same weekend. They were from the same batch (shipped together). They were the same diameter tubing, so they should have been made on the same jig. One bar fit "okay" and the other did not. Both required some "coercion" to get in the car. I've seen many other Kirk installs in the FD with varying success and fitment. To add to that, the cage building folks I know mention that they can build a cage perfectly, take it out of a car, and it refuses to go back in.
So, I'm trying to disclaim my experiences as not necessarily being a proper statistical sample...however...
When you add the other observed outcomes on the Miata board compared to what I have observed, one can see that they seem to have what might be construed as a perfect reputation (again that's my perception, but they do have a documented good track record).
The only major trauma in the Hard Dog install in my Miata was trimming some sheet metal that isn't visible(heh, some of you are probably cringing at drilling holes in your car....) once the carpet is installed and it fit perfectly. It was what I would consider a "textbook" install of a rollbar. Not a single hitch. I just kept going down the list of instructions. They seem to fit perfectly (and not just for me).
As I said before, I haven't put in a Kirk in a Miata, but I never heard anyone having to "coerce" a Hard Dog bar in, which is why I strongly suggested that one could save possible pain by just spending a few dollars to reduce potential fitment issues. I parallel this to the no-name downpipe install vs. the M2 I did two weekends ago.
To have so many Miata bar installs go without a hitch must mean that Hard Dog has worked all the bugs out, at least that's my opinion, and that's what I determined when looking into the various bars. Maybe the Kirk bar for the Miata goes in without any hitches, I can't say, but I would encourage a Miata owner to strongly consider them above others, and if they are a taller person, to sit in cars and test head position relative to the bar if it is a daily driven vehicle.
Regards,
--Ashraf
02-26-04, 09:05 AM
#89
DRFTRX7
I was just wondering if we could get a price for a 4-pt. bar in a 240sx. My friend is extremely interested and he would like a bar to go in his car, plus him and I could both save on shipping (2 bars together). Please let me know ASAP so we can get this GB together and finally buy the bars...LOL
02-26-04, 11:46 AM
#91
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COsborne, You can definitely count me in as a buyer. I just need to see a picture of the bar that replaces the bins to decide which one I want. I WILL buy a bar with this group buy, but I need to see a picture of the other bar to see which bar I want.
02-26-04, 02:19 PM
#92
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yea...i'm still waiting for that picture too before I can decide. I don't think it replaces the bins, but jus goes into them....so you have to cut a hole through the bottom of them and remove the lid is my understanding...
02-26-04, 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by RotaSpinna69
I'm still interested...i wanted the 4pt for my '93 Rx7. What are the prices/sizes again?
I'm still interested...i wanted the 4pt for my '93 Rx7. What are the prices/sizes again?
If you bothered to read this thread, you will find your answer on Page 2.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...5&pagenumber=2
This entire thread isn't that long....
Yeah...what he said!!!
02-26-04, 04:59 PM
#97
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I'm in for the Bin mount 4pt 1 3/4 bar.
I have been talking with Julie for a few Mo and they are still looking for a local car to make the bar with 2 added front legs (6pt) type.
Later, Jeff
I have been talking with Julie for a few Mo and they are still looking for a local car to make the bar with 2 added front legs (6pt) type.
Later, Jeff
02-27-04, 06:26 PM
#99
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E-Mail from Julie
"Photo is from Chris Regan's install. He has a custom finish on his bar and formed the panels around the rear down tubes for a really slick finish. BTW, your bar weighs around 70 lbs. a 2" bar will weigh closer to 95"
"Photo is from Chris Regan's install. He has a custom finish on his bar and formed the panels around the rear down tubes for a really slick finish. BTW, your bar weighs around 70 lbs. a 2" bar will weigh closer to 95"
