Kevin T. Wyum

Do you think I would have spent thousands to have prototypes and foundry molds made if it was as easy as "get one bent to spec"?

Kevin T. Wyum

Invariably almost every Chinese item I've ever come across has been a complete piece of junk. Whether it's a plastic toy for my kids, a ratchet that stops ratcheting or a door **** that's supposed to be solid brass but flakes off to reveal a **** made of slag. The reason the situation continues is the typical American consumer has become so deluded that they think they can have the world on a platter for $10. This thread is a perfect example of it. Everyone expects to have top notch goods for next to nothing. Chinese manufacturing quality is some of the worst to be found anywhere in the world. The trick is it's also almost the cheapest. It plays well to the American culture of instant gratification though, the same people that think they can buy a degree online and get a great job also think they can buy a million dollar home for twenty grand. Look at furniture. I'd bet less the 5% of the people on this board have even one piece of real solid hard wood furniture, as opposed to particle board or pine with a veneer. People get mad when they find out how much real wood costs and go on about how they can get the same thing elsewhere for less than half, of course they don't seem to understand the cheap one is just particle board.

The quality issue, as I see it, is primarily a function of the culture surrounding the workers that manufacture it. China, for example, uses peasant labor in conditions of near slavery for low volume grunt products like the ones we're talking about. The workers don't give a crap about the product and it comes through in build quality. Cars are the ultimate example. In places where the factory workers are either extremely low wage or heavily unionized cars are junk. German cars for example have gone down the toilet in reliability. BMW's turn into rattle traps that break down nonstop, Audi/VW is even worse, American cars are no better. It's also unreasonable to lump the pacific rim into one. There are vast differences between say Japan and China or Malaysia or Thailand. The culture in Japan, for example, creates an environment where the production workers actually care about what they're building and it shows. Look through consumer reports for auto reliability etc. Almost all of the best are Japanese.

The major flaw with your theory on needing to produce leading edge technology to stay ahead is that in a large number of sectors it's a waste of time because countries like China actively pirate the technology, ignoring patents or other intellectual property rights. Of course it's hard to complain about that when the same people are talking about how copying is good for the consumer.

Also you should probably know with all of your travels that the fad of tech and customer support being outsourced to India and other low wage countries isn't flowing out like everyone feared, and you seem to be suggesting. A lot of the domestic companies that tried it ended up flushing the project and moving the service jobs back to the US because consumers got angry about not being able to understand the ESL support person on the other end amongst other issues.

The reality is to fix the problem, outside of punitive measures against those not playing by the rules like China, we need to change the domestic culture, both pride in production to improve the quality of our own products but also in popularizing higher quality items and molding the public to not be satisfied with the cheapest thing that can get them by. A couple good phrases for this, "buy cheap, get cheap" or "An item you paid a lot for but use every day is a bargain compared to something you paid very little for but rarely use."

I'll shut up now since I'm rambling on.

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

Unless there's some kind of ungodly bends in it, yes I do.

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

I think most people accept the fact that this SMIC is nowhere near the quality of the ASP SMIC's. But is knocking off an extra 5 degrees from the intake temp and maybe adding a little efficiency (pressure drop) worth an extra $1,000? Depends on the person I guess...

I'm kind of itching to try this SMIC just out of curiosity. If I end up using it I will also measure pressure drop since I haven't seen any numbers on that yet.

I need to get my car back together first though lol.

TwinTurbo_SE7EN

When my Defi boost gauge gets here, I will use my current gauge at the compresspor outlet and compare them. Is that an acceptable test?

sonix7

YEP, ME TOO. I will try it and if it sucks, I will have learned the hard way, if not I will be the next contestant on the price is right!

Kevin T. Wyum

Good guess. Do some reading on the minimum radius of a mandrel bend.

Kevin T. Wyum

My post about Chinese quality isn't meant to sell my intercoolers. To be blunt IC's represent less than 1% of my total income and they can be quite a headache to build. My life wouldn't be impacted if I never built another, except I'd be a little cleaner. I will always have a moral issue with people trying to make direct knock offs, but not a financial one. I'm not too sure this cheapo thing is a copy. I did almost pee myself when the "experts in super power" were making these with 2.5" tubing and input/outputs. Of course back then it was still "race proven". It will be pretty funny to see the ducts people come up with. Doing a good job is not fun, the tubing work is a cake walk compared to the duct.

sonix7

I believe you on that. I know some of the ducts look booty, but you have to give them credit for trying it. I for one will give it a shot and if it sucks I will keep searching. I am not looking foward to making a duct but hey. someone has to do it. I would love to fab one up and have it layered in carbon fiber. Would look awesome, I am just speculating until I get it. I should know by tuesday. Kevin your experience is well respected and thanks for your input.

fritts

iTrader: (5)

If you can wet out fiberglass and sand construction foam a duct is simple. I have used the lost foam technicue several times for different types of ducts. Works great.

sonix7

fritts, got a design? I was reading your install. I don't know how to do those things, wish I did. I know basic fiberglass skills and that is about it. I am going to have to pull a rabbit out my hat on this one. What about modifying the stock duct to meet up. Any advice and/or help and/or ideas are much appreciated!

sonix7

alright, got home and my intercooler arrived today, I took it out an my first impression, keep in mind I don't have much exp. with them, but this thing is nicer than I thought for 250.00. It is very solid and the welds look nice, inlets are 2.75' and the couplers are three ply, and the clamps are even beefed up. the most surprising thing was the crossover pipe is nice, the pipes have flares at the ends and look to be heavy duty. I can't wait to get this thing in. I have to say if it does half of what it is suppose to, its wort every penny. I will report back later. Just for bling factor and better than stock is worth $250.00. wow.

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

Haha, but there are those of us who actually enjoy the do-it-yourself process which most often includes failure (crappy looking ducts, broken pieces, etc). For those people who want a great product that is guaranteed to fit with great customer service, I think they know where to turn.

Anyway, I'm not ratting on your products... because I know they rock! But sometimes I like to try unproven things and yes... I am a bit of a cheap bastard.

artowar

iTrader: (1)

How about posting some good pics of all the pieces?

sonix7

I will do that, I just went out to the car and took out the stock intercooler and vent and set the intercooler in there and hooked up the crossover pipe. Impression: the crossover pipe is thicker and seems to be better pipe then my greddy 3-piece elbow kit. I have the greddy elbow so I need a straight pipe instead of the little pipe that connects to the stock elbow piece. Otherwise it is a perfect fit with my air pump. just as much clearance from the air pump belt and x-over pipe as the lower s curve greddy pipe is to the pulley on the stock setup. I am going to modify the duct for the stock intercooler to work with the 4 times larger SMIC. it should be nice and clean when I am done. the other thing I like was that all my intercooler pipes are going to be straight except for the bend to the y-pipe. no bends, yes! the only thing is I had to lose the upper tower strut bar, I got it for like 20 bucks on e-bay, worth it to install this badass intercooler. I will post some pics in the morn.

sonix7

ok, I have one other question for you all. On the passenger side engine bay looking from front, right above the radiator between the front bumper support, there seems to be a piece of plastic blocking that side of the car from venting. the stock vent for the smic only uses half of the width of the front air dam to vent. I want to make the stock vent longer and therefore bringing in more air? I am wondering how I can make room above the radiator all the way across. can I take that section out, do I have to cut it out, or not a good idea? It does not look as if it supports anything and I have a theory that the wider the opening to bring in air, the more air I can get into the intercooler. I am not an engineer so I could be wrong. anyone?

sonix7

here is a pic of what I am talking about. the red x is where the stock vent goes, why is it blocked off where the red circle is? I want to open that up and make a vent that will utilize a bigger opening. Can I do it?

sonix7

here are some pics like I promised, say what you will, this is nice to me.

sonix7

some more of how it fits for me, see I need a straight pipe about 13" -14" long to finish it off and the duct which is coming next.

sonix7

look at the very last pic of the fans and top of radiator. I circled and x'd out the part I want to remove, can I or should I? if I make a duct all the way across the front of the nose will I get more air to the intercooler (if I make the duct right of course)? I can't see that this part does anything except for obstruct more air from coming in. am I wrong?

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

You are looking at part of the airguide. I guess you could dremel the back part off, but it's all a matter of how much air you want diverted from the radiator to the IC core.

-edit- and your PS/AC belt should go under the tensioner pulley. It'll give you more contact area that way.

TwinTurbo_SE7EN

Your hood will not close how it sits in there. it needs to be sitting on the frame rail. can you put your hood prop down completely?

sonix7

the air guide? from where to where? the radiator and nose? could you elaborate on what you were saying about the ps/ac belt?

I closed it last night and it fits, I am sure I will need adjusting, I just threw that in there for pics. where do you guys suggest I get a 14" straight pipe at? muff shop? if so what will I ask them for exactly, 14" lenth 2.75" diam. ? kind of pipe, alum,steel? I can always polish it later. thanx guys.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

wow, glaring mistake on the belt not being routed correctly. Also like TwinT saide above, as it sits, the hood is going to be rubbing all over that if it even closes at all.

Tim

sonix7

I caught the belt, wow. thanx guys, I will go fix that right now.