Anti-Detonation device explained...........
08-13-03, 08:33 PM
#27
Waiting for the RX-9
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by DaedelGT
Hmm... guess I got confused when I read that nitro funny cars burn through the spark plug and use them as glow plugs.
Hmm... guess I got confused when I read that nitro funny cars burn through the spark plug and use them as glow plugs.
or maybe they do. nitro/SC drag cars are detonation machines. Thats the main reason they replace engines every run or so. If a engine only has to last 4 sec at power, it can detonate and not heat soak the head so it MAY make it through the run. As we know, many dont make it.
08-13-03, 08:35 PM
#28
Waiting for the RX-9
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by matty
http://www.rotorway.com/news.html#38
http://www.rotorway.com/news.html#38
STAR TUBE
Attack of the Clones
08-13-03, 09:45 PM
#30
The Power of 1.3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by fastcarfreak
Batman, are you by anychance related to skip, perhaps his son??? dont take offense if your not, just curious. I heard that his son is helping him with this project! I know that his son works for some technology firm or something like that, and i know that there is a lot of those types of places in Silicon Valley.
Batman, are you by anychance related to skip, perhaps his son??? dont take offense if your not, just curious. I heard that his son is helping him with this project! I know that his son works for some technology firm or something like that, and i know that there is a lot of those types of places in Silicon Valley.
This is more news that points to the fact that KDR's miracle product does work! Good news for rotary enthusiasts everywhere.
Originally posted by DCrosby
I like you batman, I really do, but there's no such thing as detonation proof or anti detonation... I think you're raising the bar which is admirable, but not to the point where you can't detonate...
I like you batman, I really do, but there's no such thing as detonation proof or anti detonation... I think you're raising the bar which is admirable, but not to the point where you can't detonate...
08-13-03, 09:46 PM
#31
The Power of 1.3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by rotorbrain
im sure all this is serious. all i wanna see is a product with "shipped" sale price. . . with instructions of course.
paul
im sure all this is serious. all i wanna see is a product with "shipped" sale price. . . with instructions of course.
paul
08-13-03, 10:23 PM
#32
fart on a friends head!!!
Originally posted by 911GT2
That gives you a lot more room in tuning, and gives you the opportunity to hit the 14.7:1 that we rotary enthusiasts so long to have.
That gives you a lot more room in tuning, and gives you the opportunity to hit the 14.7:1 that we rotary enthusiasts so long to have.
paul
08-13-03, 10:30 PM
#34
Re: Anti-Detonation device explained...........
Originally posted by BATMAN
For years, folks have tinkered with engines to optimize performance for racing. Stock engines are manufactured to optimize performance for pump gas. For the most part the higher the octane the less liekly it will detonate granted that the respective mods are constant. Furthermore, better burning fuel eliminate detonation allowing for optimal performance.
The "anti-detonation device" (ADD) is a fuel processing system consisting of several sections that are capable of mixing fuel and air into a more homogeneous state than is possible with standard fuel injection or carbs. The A/F mixture can be mixed into a more homogeneous state because the mixture particle size is reduced. This increase in homogeneity results in a much better burning mixture. The fuel particles are mixed in a way such that, when injected into a high compression or turbo'd combustion chamber, detonation is not present.
The optimal A/F ratio is about the same as 1bar of atmospheric pressure 14.7:1. Most of us run more fuel to reduce the drain from our bank accounts.
Basic concepts of its fucntion will be discussed but with no specific details can be revealed (don't harrass me with PM's and emails like a bunch of hungry puppies begging their mom for the daily vomit meal). Explicit characteristics of the fluid flow and actual dimensions will not be discussed.
The ADD was developed to aid in the thorough mixing of the A/F before it enters the combustion chamber. Air is added tot he fuel stream and subjected to multiple pressure drops. This is accomplished using a series of sections, similar orfices plates, shich restrict the A/F mixture. The combination of several pressure differentials and swirl induced by each orfice within the system aids in the atomization of the mixture. The greater the atomization of the mixture, the closer it is to being a homogenous flow which will enhance the evaporation of the flow.
Fuel is first injected inti the system by means of a fuel injector. Air is drawn into the system from radial holes aligned parallel to the flow of the fuel. Once the fuel and air have been mixed initially, the mixture travels through a series of orfices. The pressure differential created by the orfice is similar to that seen through the single venturi of a carburetor. A combination of multiple orfices, which produce pressure drops and an increase in turbulence throughout the mixture, contribute to better mixing and fuel droplet size reduction than is possible with injectors alone........
BTW, this should also add to fuel economy when ur just cruising.
For years, folks have tinkered with engines to optimize performance for racing. Stock engines are manufactured to optimize performance for pump gas. For the most part the higher the octane the less liekly it will detonate granted that the respective mods are constant. Furthermore, better burning fuel eliminate detonation allowing for optimal performance.
The "anti-detonation device" (ADD) is a fuel processing system consisting of several sections that are capable of mixing fuel and air into a more homogeneous state than is possible with standard fuel injection or carbs. The A/F mixture can be mixed into a more homogeneous state because the mixture particle size is reduced. This increase in homogeneity results in a much better burning mixture. The fuel particles are mixed in a way such that, when injected into a high compression or turbo'd combustion chamber, detonation is not present.
The optimal A/F ratio is about the same as 1bar of atmospheric pressure 14.7:1. Most of us run more fuel to reduce the drain from our bank accounts.
Basic concepts of its fucntion will be discussed but with no specific details can be revealed (don't harrass me with PM's and emails like a bunch of hungry puppies begging their mom for the daily vomit meal). Explicit characteristics of the fluid flow and actual dimensions will not be discussed.
The ADD was developed to aid in the thorough mixing of the A/F before it enters the combustion chamber. Air is added tot he fuel stream and subjected to multiple pressure drops. This is accomplished using a series of sections, similar orfices plates, shich restrict the A/F mixture. The combination of several pressure differentials and swirl induced by each orfice within the system aids in the atomization of the mixture. The greater the atomization of the mixture, the closer it is to being a homogenous flow which will enhance the evaporation of the flow.
Fuel is first injected inti the system by means of a fuel injector. Air is drawn into the system from radial holes aligned parallel to the flow of the fuel. Once the fuel and air have been mixed initially, the mixture travels through a series of orfices. The pressure differential created by the orfice is similar to that seen through the single venturi of a carburetor. A combination of multiple orfices, which produce pressure drops and an increase in turbulence throughout the mixture, contribute to better mixing and fuel droplet size reduction than is possible with injectors alone........
BTW, this should also add to fuel economy when ur just cruising.
First, detonation is as the name says, explosion rather than combustion but which explosions occur spontaneously rather than as desired by the engine controller. Second, detonation is not always bad depending on where it occurs in the combustion cycle. To wit, ever listened to a diesel? Explain to me why it's doesn't punch a hole in the piston.
Third, if detonation is the result of large particle size, then why the hell does dumping a **** load of fuel reduces detonation? (hint, hint, internal engine cooling)
Fourth, atomization of fuel is always good. But in and of itself, atomization doesn't explain why this device works.
Fifth, the technique that allows one to ignite a lean mixture with little or no detonation is to have a pre-ignition chamber that is filled with a rich fuel mixture. The rich fuel mixture is used to ignite the lean fuel mixture with the result that detonation is reduced. Your explanation sounds like this pre-ignition chamber that I raised when 911GT first brought up the subject.
I can't believe the **** that are propagated in this forum as the WORD.
08-13-03, 10:31 PM
#35
Re: Anti-Detonation device explained...........
Originally posted by BATMAN
don't harrass me with PM's and emails like a bunch of hungry puppies begging their mom for the daily vomit meal
don't harrass me with PM's and emails like a bunch of hungry puppies begging their mom for the daily vomit meal
08-13-03, 10:50 PM
#37
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Silicon Valley Bay Area
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never gave all the information............. just a tease.
If I were to dole out the entire information it would be almost 200 pages long. Ur eyeballs would have fallen out already.
So what kinda patent do u specialize in?
If I were to dole out the entire information it would be almost 200 pages long. Ur eyeballs would have fallen out already.
So what kinda patent do u specialize in?
08-13-03, 11:03 PM
#39
The Power of 1.3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Zyon13B
I'm very interested, but I'll wait till a couple people try it out. I hope its something I can get without actually driving to KDR.
I'm very interested, but I'll wait till a couple people try it out. I hope its something I can get without actually driving to KDR.
08-13-03, 11:18 PM
#41
The Power of 1.3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by BATMAN
CA is longer and thicker than most of ur eastern states combined
CA is longer and thicker than most of ur eastern states combined
Yeah, but we got KDR on our side. They're starting a rotary revolution! And I can get there faster than you so
see ya when you get here!
08-13-03, 11:41 PM
#42
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tejas
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
settle down dood...until the **** works and is on the market there is NO evidence that points to anything.
youve been sold. People got all hyped like this about a certain set of untested turbos. now look what happened....9 out of 10 sets dont work properly.
just because you think something is going to work doesnt mean it will. period. ive got twenty five grand into my motor and turbos and mods...ive used tested and untested parts...with the untested comes the learning curve...and with the learning curve comes mistakes...with mistakes comes lost funds and downtime.
so...beware the hype....if the **** works..great...if not...you go ahead and be the guy to let me know...cuz no way in hell do i want to be that guy.
j
youve been sold. People got all hyped like this about a certain set of untested turbos. now look what happened....9 out of 10 sets dont work properly.
just because you think something is going to work doesnt mean it will. period. ive got twenty five grand into my motor and turbos and mods...ive used tested and untested parts...with the untested comes the learning curve...and with the learning curve comes mistakes...with mistakes comes lost funds and downtime.
so...beware the hype....if the **** works..great...if not...you go ahead and be the guy to let me know...cuz no way in hell do i want to be that guy.
j
08-13-03, 11:44 PM
#43
Originally posted by BATMAN
I never gave all the information............. just a tease.
If I were to dole out the entire information it would be almost 200 pages long. Ur eyeballs would have fallen out already.
So what kinda patent do u specialize in?
I never gave all the information............. just a tease.
If I were to dole out the entire information it would be almost 200 pages long. Ur eyeballs would have fallen out already.
So what kinda patent do u specialize in?
What I doubt is your explanation of detonation. It doesn't sound like you know what detonation is. And because your explanation is so vague, it tends to discredit your explanation of how the device work.
As for patents, I do electro-mechanical devices, actuators, magnetic actuators, some software, but mostly fuel injectors for a huge int'l corp. And because patent examiners are engineers, you have to explain things very clearly.
Be careful of getting a patent for the sake of getting a patent. A patent is a legal tool that must be planned with foresight as to how it will be used. Getting a ***** nilly patent will get you nowhere and profit the lawyers.
08-13-03, 11:52 PM
#44
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Re: Re: Anti-Detonation device explained...........
Originally posted by pomanferrari
BATMAN, you had better stay in your cave and bone up on what detonation is. You're trying to explain something from hearing someone talk but has no idea.
First, detonation is as the name says, explosion rather than combustion but which explosions occur spontaneously rather than as desired by the engine controller. Second, detonation is not always bad depending on where it occurs in the combustion cycle. To wit, ever listened to a diesel? Explain to me why it's doesn't punch a hole in the piston.
Third, if detonation is the result of large particle size, then why the hell does dumping a **** load of fuel reduces detonation? (hint, hint, internal engine cooling)
Fourth, atomization of fuel is always good. But in and of itself, atomization doesn't explain why this device works.
Fifth, the technique that allows one to ignite a lean mixture with little or no detonation is to have a pre-ignition chamber that is filled with a rich fuel mixture. The rich fuel mixture is used to ignite the lean fuel mixture with the result that detonation is reduced. Your explanation sounds like this pre-ignition chamber that I raised when 911GT first brought up the subject.
I can't believe the **** that are propagated in this forum as the WORD.
BATMAN, you had better stay in your cave and bone up on what detonation is. You're trying to explain something from hearing someone talk but has no idea.
First, detonation is as the name says, explosion rather than combustion but which explosions occur spontaneously rather than as desired by the engine controller. Second, detonation is not always bad depending on where it occurs in the combustion cycle. To wit, ever listened to a diesel? Explain to me why it's doesn't punch a hole in the piston.
Third, if detonation is the result of large particle size, then why the hell does dumping a **** load of fuel reduces detonation? (hint, hint, internal engine cooling)
Fourth, atomization of fuel is always good. But in and of itself, atomization doesn't explain why this device works.
Fifth, the technique that allows one to ignite a lean mixture with little or no detonation is to have a pre-ignition chamber that is filled with a rich fuel mixture. The rich fuel mixture is used to ignite the lean fuel mixture with the result that detonation is reduced. Your explanation sounds like this pre-ignition chamber that I raised when 911GT first brought up the subject.
I can't believe the **** that are propagated in this forum as the WORD.
No one never said detonation was the result of fuel droplets being too large-- but it is true that with a much more atomized fuel/air mixture (smaller fuel droplets), you get a more controlled "burn", which helps to prevent detonation or pre-ignition. Detonation in a descriptive sense with regards to internal combustion engines is kind of misleading; it's not so much an "explosion", it's more of an uncontrolled burn of the fuel/air mixture in the combustion chamber. The whole idea behind running richer fuel mixtures to prevent detonation is to control the burn in the combustion chamber, whether through keeping combustion chamber temps under control (like you referred to) so "hotspots" aren't created that will pre-ignite the mixture, or to make the mixture rich enough so that the flame front (as the mixture burns) is slowed, since the fuel octane isn't sufficient to control the flame front. The whole idea behind octane is to slow the speed of the mixture's burn rate in the combustion chamber. But if you make the atomization of the fuel/air mixture fine enough, you can control the burn just as well (or better, depending on circumstances) as if you had a much higher octane rated fuel. That is the principal behind this "StarTube" device.
And while I originally thought that this device used the principals of injecting a "pre-mixed" mixture like the Orbital direct injection technology, I'm not so sure now that it's exactly the same. Plus, direct injection would be much more expensive (I'd think, at least) than $800-something to market, since you need to use air pressure to assist the direct injection. I wish there was more info on this StarTube device, but I haven't been able to find it yet.
Again, I don't want to sound like I'm a know-it-all, and I don't want to sound condescending to you or anyone. But I think the right info needed to be stated here.
Oh, and yeah, it's still possible to achieve detonation with this device (but it would take some work); and there's no way I'll pony up the dosh until I see a lot of others getting substantiated results.
Last edited by Kento; 08-14-03 at 12:18 AM.
08-14-03, 12:21 AM
#45
Man, I've never seen such hype since, what, windows 95?
Maybe KDR can get the Stones to license them a song too.
I think it's time that whomever is behind all this hype either dispel some myths and state some fact or all this speculation is going to do more harm than good. Right now it sounds so much like "Oh, she's got a real good personality" blind date. You can polish a turd but it's still a turd, you know what I mean?
Frank
Maybe KDR can get the Stones to license them a song too.
I think it's time that whomever is behind all this hype either dispel some myths and state some fact or all this speculation is going to do more harm than good. Right now it sounds so much like "Oh, she's got a real good personality" blind date. You can polish a turd but it's still a turd, you know what I mean?
Frank
08-14-03, 12:27 AM
#46
Senior Member
Caped Crusader
Status: Offline!
Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Silicon Valley Bay Area
Posts: 7735
Now I got people trying to attack me since they are upset that I'm not doling out the cookie crumbs.
How elementary....
Nope, I'm not realted to skip aside from the fact that I have the same number of homosomes as he does......
Status: Offline!
Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Silicon Valley Bay Area
Posts: 7735
Now I got people trying to attack me since they are upset that I'm not doling out the cookie crumbs.
How elementary....
Nope, I'm not realted to skip aside from the fact that I have the same number of homosomes as he does......
You offer no proof, and a no comment. It seems more like a sales pitch then anything else.
08-14-03, 12:56 AM
#47
"I see triangles"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 911GT2
You live in $%*!@ PA! Don't gimme crap about driving there...
You live in $%*!@ PA! Don't gimme crap about driving there...
LOLYea, I'm actually less than 2hrs away from nazareth, but I like to do all the work myself. I never was at KDR. I called once and they said to book dyno time it would be about 3 months. I can't plan that far ahead.
08-14-03, 01:08 AM
#49
All this talk about the device allowing for the engine to have a more complete combustion, makes me think they are using injectors from the Rx8 in addition to this device. I heard those injectors have a really fine spray pattern.
Oh by the way, any idea when they expect to have this device ready? Or do they plan on waiting till sevenstock?
Oh by the way, any idea when they expect to have this device ready? Or do they plan on waiting till sevenstock?
08-14-03, 02:22 AM
#50
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Silicon Valley Bay Area
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by NorthwindHost
You offer no proof, and a no comment. It seems more like a sales pitch then anything else.
You offer no proof, and a no comment. It seems more like a sales pitch then anything else.
What do attorneys do when they have their hands full? They usually charge more to fix or address a situation.
U almost sound like a Liberal trying to get free information for all to see and use at the expense of someone else's hard work......... but I'm not going to go there.
Bah humbug!