Mod Bugs

Are there any air to water intercooler members on here? I know it is not common for fd. Is it the space that is the issue?

also anyone running any type of intercooler sprayers? Whether it be water, cry02, or nitrous?
How’s the performance and gains on that?

methanol or water injection also

KYPREO

Water to air intercoolers are very popular in Australia for drag racers. These usually incorporate an ice bucket, so you can get the water really cold (lower than ambient temperature) and achieve far superior cooling over a short run than would be the case for relying on A2A cooling.

But for circuit racing and street applications, they aren't so popular. And this makes sense because they are vastly inferior to a good air-to-air intercooler for this application in my opinion. Space, complexity and cost are all issues. However, there are performance reasons too. Put simply, unless you have ice in the equation, air-air is going to be more efficient at removing heat than air-water-air. The use case where this might not hold true is rally or other low speed motorsport where air passing through the intercooler is limited....but even then, you still need to get heat out of the water and if incoming air speed is low this ultimately requires either a stupidly large radiator or a big fan going all the time (which could equally be implemented on an A2A setup).

Methanol and water injection is a completely different topic and works in very different ways. There is a whole section of this forum dedicated to that: https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

There's a 4th element I think he's referring to which is an intercooler sprayer, typically used with an air-to-air IC what's like a CO2 sprayer with what looks like a nitrous bottle that blows cold spray (like turning a dust-off can upside down) on the surface of the IC to cool it off. I don't know much about them, or why they are not terribly popular, but could be something to alleviate heat soak or get a momentary cool off for short runs. Seems like its most had gimmick status though.

https://www.designengineering.com/in...r-sprayer-kit/

Jesturr

I bought my car tuned for water-meth injection off the little hatch wiper sprayer bottle and tapped into my greddy intake elbow.
I think my PO said it was making around 350 hp at the wheels, but I did not get any dyno charts or paperwork to verify.
My understanding is the methanol is a supplemental fuel that reduces knock, so you can run higher boost (?) or something similar to that.

When I got the car, I took it off water meth and had it tuned for just water injection. The stock hatch reservoir is puny and I was worried about running out mid-run, and I didn't want to have to keep buying boost juice.
Right now it's just on water injection, it's great mainly for keeping my intake temps down since my intercooler is still stock mount.
With 99 spec turbos at 10psi and stock ports the car was rated at 299hp at the wheels when it was tuned.

billyboy

The SP over here stock, had nothing more sophisticated than two irrigation nozzles (Gardena?) hooked up in the IC duct, manually triggered by the headlight spray switch using the big rear tank that the sakebomb piece was modelled off. I've heard of several people running similar on non SP FDs.

The only one I'm more familiar with, runs what would be in your money a 9 US gallon tank, for sprint circuit races, ecu triggered - but also water injects. The use on the old(er) spec WRC cars at least and 30 years prior, in both areas confirms it's effectiveness, they had some crazy water consumption figure per kilometre though.

Mod Bugs

Got it, seems like the complication and sizes as well as what the driving circumstances are play a role in intercooler set ups.
so most people are either street cars or track cars. Not many drag fd rx7. But seems like air to water ic are really mainly for drag racing scenarios?

so I suppose it funnels me toward air to air now maybe a fmic or a vmount but my question of intercooler sprayers for fmic or vmount still stands.
to alleviate and reduce heat, just curious why more people are not using intercooler and or radiator sprayers. I would think it would reduce intake air temp and coolant temps down quite a bit (without too complicated set up)

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Get yourself a GReddy V-mount and don't look back. For most applications, it's the best thing out there and it's among the nicest "kits" for the FD ive ever had.

the_saint

Being tuned to the ragged edge and then running out of water/co2/nitrous to spray to cool could lead to a new engine.

There are ways around this problem. Sprayers definitely have a role but a properly sized IC with proper ducting should be the first goal.

the_saint

How much DIY is needed for the GReddy V-mount kit?

My list is : fresh engine, modern turbo kit, v-mount, tune, body work and then wheels.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

It's a complete kit, down to the bolts/fittings, and a pretty easy install, and available configured for TT's or Single T.

Slides

Does it retain A/C and power steer?

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

I have done extensive work on CO2 intercooler spraying and it works very well. I did a video of early testing and I installed everything in my car. In real life, I could be at full boost on a still twin sequential with the KAI' turbos and my charge temperature would go to below ambient. I also have extensive ceramic coating of everything. Have a dual bank U-type intercooler, Autoexec intake with ram air through the bumper, 700 cfm intake fan and dual 300 cfm puller fans on the back of the intercooler. My car has been down for over three years due to other priorities, but was running unbelievably until a engine failure due to a PFC programing malfunction, of my own making unfortunately, that killed the engine. I have a new engine in my garage for the past two years but can't get to it yet. Here are some pictures.
Mike
P.S. I have available the video of tabletop testing before car installation. The video is too big to post. The intercooler output temp drops from 86 degrees F to 31.5 degrees F from an input temp of 181 degrees F following about 20 seconds of CO2 spraying.

Slides

Good proof of concept. The funny part is most users would probably level out on power due to intake sucking the CO2. Can't say I'm a fan of having fuel, oxidant or asphyxiant in the cab space though.

Is that one of mateys intercooler/duct setups?

Pete_89T2

iTrader: (4)

From the looks of the pictured IC duct/sprayer detail, and the other engine bay picture, it appears the CO2 is sprayed only to the face of the IC, and there's a separate cold air inlet duct running to the air filter(s), so the intake won't be sucking the CO2. Agree that I wouldn't want a big tank of the stuff in my cabin though.

Slides

Didn't say that setup would. I have an Apexi intake on mine too. Should have got one of Marcus intercooler/duxt kits too.

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

Yes. It is Marcus's intercooler I got from him several years ago.

There is no chance for the CO2 to get into the intake. I have ram air through the Abflug bumper feeding a sealed channel directing into Autoexec Intake. I have a metal aluminum divider separating the top half of the bumper and the bottom half, where no radiator hot air can even contaminate the cool ambient air coming into the engine, also. I sealed all the openings in the picture between the bumper and engine bay after that picture was taken with HVAC aluminum tape. Used HVAC foam strips to seal the hood from the upper bumper area.

All of the ducts, the intake and intercooler are also insulted with insulating black foam. The intercooler is also coated in ceramic heat blocker on the end caps and heat transfer coating on the fins to help heat exchange. Also, I use CO2 rather than nitrous for that remote chance of any mixing as to not blow up the engine.

Lastly, the CO2 bottle has an electrical auto opener that stays closed until I press a button in the center console to activate the opener, time the CO2 spraying, and then close the bottle once again. No way to get asphyxiated unless the opener would fail in the open position and a leak occur or if the tank ruptures in some kind of collision. I that much force from a collision occurred, I am toast anyway. Don't have to worry about breathing in some CO2 then.
Mike

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

Forgot one thing. Every 10F drop in the intake charge temp is about 3.5% increase in air density which translates into increased HP. If I drop my intake charge by 50-60F that is a significant around 20% increase in air density and significant potential HP gain. Of course, this would be short lived for the time right after CO2 spraying with the typical delay time needed to cool the fins down. This would be idea for drag strip racing. My tank lasted about 20-25 times or so with 25 second bursts when tank is filled with liquid CO2. It must be liquid hitting the intercooler fins and not gas to work correctly.
Mike

Montego

iTrader: (1)

The GReddy V-mount does retain AC and power steering.