edmcguirk

I shouldn't jump in... I wanna jump in... I shouldn't jump in... Oh screw it, I'm jumping in.

There is one thing that no driver no matter how skilled or experienced can compensate for:

variable traction.

Maybe you could see some kind of film on the road or track -sometimes- but even if you did, you cannot compensate for one wheel with lower or higher traction. ABS can.

A well trained driver might be able to beat ABS in a controlled test but the real world is a different place.

I've been IT racing since 1997 and I don't have ABS but a friend of mine who is by far the fastest local driver (even when he drives slower cars) swears by ABS. In variable conditions or extreme late braking manuvers it prevents flat spots on the unloaded wheel. He does not consider ABS a means to brake faster, he considers it a way to save money or prevent the occasional slide in oil or rain.

My sanctioning body does not allow ABS unless the car came with it. If not for that rule, I would add ABS. Of course I would also try to find the best ABS control system available.

On second thought, please remove your ABS and send it to me.

ed

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I'm with the guys that like the ABS.

I auto-x a lot, ABS saves your inside front tire, w/o it coming into a tight turn while starting to brake the inside front tire is unloaded and locks. Locking tires = flat spots, flat spots make it easier for the tire to lock up in the same spot over and over. Race tires are spendy, it sucks to throw away a $230 Hoosier because you corded it in one spot.

Once a tire is locked it is harder to get it to unlock, ever lock up a tire going over a paint stripe on a wet road? Manhole covers are also slick on the street when wet.

In the end there are a million examples of how ABS kicks *** on the street, people that remove it for "simplification" might as well remove the fuel injection and put a carb on the motor too.

If you want simple, drive a different car...

gfelber

Yes, an age old debate. I know several track junkies who swear by ABS and others who despise it.

I wish I had ABS on my Miata as I would have avoided this: http://www.mantissaconsulting.com/et...t_7_8_2004.htm

Started to downpour and I hit an oil slick. Hit the brakes a touch too hard and the car immediately swapped ends. Unfortunately, the rear "found" the sand in the runoff area and over she went.

Not having ABS has taught me a bunch about threshold braking, but I'm confident that I'll never be a good enough driver to want to remove it. There are too many situations during track events where panic can ensue. And panic for me often equals over zealous brake pedal mashing

Gene

gdnimr0d

iTrader: (4)

bahahhah RYNBERG OWNED YOU ALL!

rynberg

While I appreciate the support ( ), I didn't "own" anyone and that wasn't my reason for posting. I just feel fairly strongly on the topic and like to make sure people see both sides before they go and do something rather rash....

DyNaMiTe KiD

for people who dont belive in ABS, go watch a ABS video made by GM where they compare ABS cars against non ABS cars... then make a decesion. All i can say is ABS is something i personally wouldnt even think about removing off my car.. im 100% with rynberg on this one. Im taking automotive in school and learned about diffrent abs systems from delco marine VI to the bosch 2u system etc... there could be a diffrence upto 30 feet between ABS stopping and non ABS, and with ABS if you were getting into a accident you can steer while the ABS is doing its thing, can you with non ABS? think about that one..

Amrit

Kento

...in a fuggin' nutshell...

boostd2rtr

rynberg.....I really dont understand how you can rant on and on about he-man bullshyt when all the coments you have made were backed by nothing but your opinion. You have showed me no proof of the claims you have made here. I have proved that the percentage of accidents leading to serious injuries and death have gone way up since the mandation of the ABS and that was in 1 car accidents... if people cant drive when theres no opposition what makes you think that situation will change when other drivers are added to the equation?! Sanctioning bodies in performance racing banned abs because they realized that computer controlled braking was causing to many accidents and death. And this is why I said abs sucks.

Dynamite kid... why would I watch an abs video put out by GM showing their great ability to brake while taking turns when they have been ranked the lowest as far as vehicle recovery and rollover risk is concerned. Think about that one.....

Simple post made by me and you guys have made comments without actually proving what you claim I would definatly reconsider my modification if you could prove that ABS is actually such a life saving tool.

jimlab

An opinion that is shared by many. The number of people who can modulate their brakes well enough/fast enough to compete with a modern ABS system are few and far between.

Did you factor in the increase in the number of drivers on the road while you were at it?

Bullshit. Let's see some evidence to back up that statement. Computer controlled ABS (and in some organizations, computer controlled traction control) are forbidden to promote competitiveness.

"Formula One cars must have one brake system operated through a single brake pedal. However, the system must comprise two hydraulic circuits – one for the front wheels and one for the rear. Should one circuit fail the other must remain operational. Power brakes and anti-lock braking systems (ABS) are not allowed."

Next you'll be telling us that power brakes are illegal in F1 because of the number of accidents and deaths they cause.

Did you ever stop to consider that if ABS prevented an accident that there would be no record of it?

First, you need to consult with the forum owners before you start pimping your products here. Second, your facts are incomplete and your reasoning is unsound. If you want to remove your ABS, fine, but don't give us a lot of bullshit about how much better the car is without it to try to further your own gain.

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

haha, another burn by jimlab, i love this guy, always good for a laugh.

TylerTRD

Oh and about the F1 cars, they did use ABS, the cars were to fast. FIA said no. but i can tell you that when they did have ABS it was an amazing thing to see. ABS is good. But 12 year old ABS is ****. our cars are old!

boostd2rtr

Hummm...your right good point on second thought I wont be putting a V-8 in my car neither

No,but I am sure the leaders of the survey did as they released the results.....

If all the cars had computer controlled ABS on the field than the competitiveness ratio would be the same and the best driver would still win whats your point why did they really ban the system?!

Lalalalala...................

exactly....there would be no record of a crash therefore lowering the percentage nice work JIM.

Don't flatter yourself....this was a MODIFICATION done to MY car not a product. I was gauging interest to see of others might be willing to do as I did.

jimlab

Thanks for admitting that you don't know what you're talking about.

Directly from the official Formula 1 web site...

"Formula One previously allowed anti-skid braking systems (which would reduce the brake pressure to allow the wheel to turn again and then continue to slow it at the maximum possible rate) but these were banned in the 1990s. Braking therefore remains one of the sternest tests of a Formula One driver's skill."

Kento

Can you explain this statement? Better yet, can you "prove" it?

Can you "prove" this?

rynberg

The capabilty of one's brain to delude one's self is amazing.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

My abs is broken and I'm too cheap to fix it and I wanted one of these kits until boosted two rotor showed off what a jackass he is. I'm a jackass too and this pisses me off. You suck boosted two rotor, go home.

jimlab

Perfectly logical... if it sounds true, it must be true.

jimlab

Have you tried Jeff Hoskinson or Fritz Flynn to see if they have a used unit? You can also rebuild the unit (I believe DamonB posted a thread about it).

tcb100

An amazing conversation for 2005! These arguments began in the late 1980s and are long settled. There is not a reason in the world to yank out a perfectly good ABS system, including the "old" system on our cars.

Like Rynberg says, test after test after test proves ABS superiority. People who can do better without it are few and far between.

Any company selling a product to defeat ABS would be a trial lawyer's dream!

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Like Mazdatrix?

yodaddy

how much are you looking to sell these for. i have been wanting to do it for a while and now realize my abs unit is leeking, so i need to do something. thanks.

tcb100

Yeah Glassman, like Mazdatrix.

CantGoStraight

[QUOTE=scientist68]wow...i love the way these debates escalate...we should get down to a bar and discuss it over a few crates of bud.

Now here's another he-man statement like Bud......will make you .......Wieser (wiser)

LOL

artowar

iTrader: (1)

Not a product? Then why did you start this thread with the following post?

Good luck gathering interested buyers. Given the technical expertise you've displayed in this thread, I'm sure that you will find plenty of people to put their life on the line with your "not a product" kit.

boostd2rtr

ummmm....ok