Hey guys;
As the title states I have just designed a Abs elimination kit that removes the abs pump replaces all the lines going from the master to the calipers with hard lines and ties in a proportioning valve for the back brakes. Each caliper also has a steel braided line going from the caliper itself to the hard line.So basically a full brake line kit with braided lines and a new proportioning valve all pre-fabbed. I was just wondering if anyone out there was interested in a kit like this because I am willing to fabricate as much kits as needed and sell them at a very competitive price. If there are any questions just ask!

 

Got pics?

-s-

 

Finally! A man who hates ABS as much as I do!

 

LOL....ABS sucks! On the pics I will try to get some posted asap! nothing much to see though just custom lines and some braided portions considering the kit is mounted on the car already.

 

How do you like the braking this way?

 

pics and price

 

Please explain what about ABS...sucks. Especially since 99% of the people here only drive on the street, a situation where you would have to be a complete moron to remove the ABS IMO.

 

I agree... what would be fantastic is if someone made a switchable ABS kit for if you wanted to powerslide and crap like that. Would be very difficult and expensive probably, so never mind.

 

I must agree with rynberg, on cold and wet days ABS saved me bunch of times on stop and go traffic, when the ******* in front of you decides to hit the brakes and turn the last second when you least expect it ABS come pretty handy to have.

 

Well unles you are a complete moron and not paying enough attention to what you are supposed to be doing ABS doesn't do **** for you. It only gives you sterering control "if" you happen to lock up. That said I am not reffering to you Rynberg as a complete moron. Just the majority of the people on the roads.

Being that i am going to be on a track alot now that i am back on the mainland i wanted it gone. As i have a hang up of a computer taking complete control over what i want to do with the car because it thinks it is in trouble.

that said i have driven with it off for a couple months before i put it on the trip over here from hawaii and i absolutley had NO problems what so ever. And I did have a couple of the afformentioned morons who decided to pull out right in front of me and i didn't have a hint of lock up.( Both in wet and dry) I also am running 18's so that may play a role as well. having more tire contact available. I love it and will never go back.

However, if people are planning on doing this with the stock 16's,.. I would probably lean away from it as your braking is "only" as good as the traction and tires you have on the car. you can put the biggest rotors and calipers on you want and it won't help you stop any better unless your tires have the grip. As that is where the threshold of lock-up is present. Now some will argue that is where the ABS comes in but it doesn't stop any/much quicker than without, if the tires and person driving have any means of car cotrol and feel for what is going on.


Now as far as a "kit" goes.. there is not much to it. It takes about 10 minutes to bend tubes and flare them to adapt to whatever you want to run. not to mention the liabilty you are setting yourself up for if the flares leak or anything else goes wrong. You'd be better off just making a write-up..( like the ones that are already out there) and be done with it. As the parts only cost about 100 bucks including the brake lines, bending and cutting tools and a flaring tool ( get the right one for the type of lines you are using) As well the proportioning is pretty cheap.

In the end it is just a personal choice for me and I have had NO good experiences with ABS. So i choose to take it off every car i drive. And knock on wood i am all good to this day...12 years and counting.

rant over

 

Isn't it pretty easy to disable ABS? Just unplug it. You could always just add a switch to the circuit.

For street use I only see one practical reason to disable the ABS: If you're driving in snow or dirt you can sometimes stop faster by locking up the wheel as this builds up a mound of dirt or snow in front of the wheels which provided better stopping.

On dry pavement your stopping distances will always be longer without ABS.

There are some advantages to no ABS on a racecar.

 

Pictures and price?

 

I hate ABS.. especially Mazda's ABS system.

 

Actually a good driver can stop shorter on dry pavement than just mashing the brakes and letting ABS take over. You get the most stopping power just before you lock up and slide. Keeping the correct pedal pressure to be just on the edge of locking up is better than very short bursts of locking and releasing that you get when ABS takes over.

That said, you can keep the pedal pressure just short of locking up and stop just as fast on an ABS car without engaging the ABS. There is no real good reason to eliminate the ABS unless your Hydraulic unit is malfunctioning. The benefits in a panic situation far outweigh the drawbacks of having 10 extra pounds of metal in the engine bay.

And whoever said ditch the ABS so you can "powerslide and crap like that"...

 

i wish i could get my abs to work...

 

I still haven't heard a single reason why the ABS "sucks", just the typical internet he-man bullshit.

I still can't believe people believe a good driver can outbrake ABS, when it's been repeatedly proven that the computer wins everytime (except on snow or dirt as John pointed out). Look at the Viper and Miata, two frequently tested cars with data for ABS and no-ABS. Guess what? The ABS-equipped car stops quicker on dry pavement every time. Several feet shorter. Every time.

Even the FD's relatively low-tech 3-channel ABS is still better than a human can ever be for one simple reason -- it can brake right to lockup while controlling either front or both rears individually. A human cannot do that -- one wheel will always lock up first and then you have to ease off -- an ABS equipped car can keep the other 3 wheels at full pressure while backing off the pressure on the one locking wheel. And the system can do it several times a second, much faster than a human can.

The most telling point for ABS is that every team in a racing body that allows ABS, uses it. That should tell you everything you need to know, even those of you who have delusions of grandeur...

 

That just means we need 4 brake pedals, and 4 feet!

-Alex

 

Well it seems like there is a lot of mixed emotions on this subject of ABS or non-ABS.. to put it simple I chose to do this modification and design this kit for myself. Rynberg its nice that you love the ABS...good for you then you dont ever need to think about cutting it out of YOUR car. I doubt you ever have track driven your car anyway; when it all boils down its YOUR opinion and were all greatful for it soo my opinion keep your ABS it seems like you really need it. Now moving on the abs on my car was not always on par I had multiple problems with it that actually hindered its performance. With the removal of the system brake response is worlds different anyone with upgraded calipers and rotors would notice exponential improvement over stock performance. As Big Island Sevens said tire and rim size has a lot to do with the conversion since the rubber is the first media to hit the ground starting with good tires would deffinatly be a plus. I dont have any 60-0,100-0, or any other measurments as of yet but I do know with this new system the car brakes MUCH better. If the guy jumps out in front of you in the rain theres no need to slam the brakes to halt a nice and easy progressive push of the pedal as you feel the car slowing you proportionatly push or release the pedal as needed...I am sure that will stop the car adequatly. Hummmmmm.......I wonder why 90% of the Le Mans,F1,and Nasacar dont have ABS equipped cars....ohhh and yes I do believe they race in the rain.

 

Some reading for the masses...
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/lvabs.htm

 

Cut this ABS short...

ABS is advantageous in "Panic" situations, you cannot allways control your body you know.
When you panic due to that car comes out from his entry without looking and you have to brake to avoid crash some people panic.
And on ABS less cars, well they cannot turn away and they require a longer braking distance.

But if you are used to those kind of situations you will not panic and you can brake perfectly well.
A well trained foot can beat the ABS it is just a matter of how well trained.
Daily drivers will feel ABS as a safety precaution in case they panic.
Because you never know when you panic and when in a panic situation you will find yourself often not having time to think, your body will have react by instincts and previous experiences.

 

wow, ABS does stir the emotions.....

i cede there are two legitimate sides to the issue.

that said i am real happy to have pitched mine in the trash barrel along with my power steering etc etc.

i have done a fair amount of tracking my fd and never got into the abs. i also need to state that i have never been beaten w my car and raced in scca for 22 seasons. (my point is that it wasn't a case of babying the car on the track as to not getting into the abs). i run lockheed AP brakes (m2) and 18X8.5 front and 18X10 rear w Toyo TS1 tires and 52% rear weight bias. this combo tells me exactly where i am w re to lockup...

i also am delighted that the space is freed up for various other items.

unlike manual steering, i do feel that there can be a legitimate case made for retaining the abs....

just not on my car.

howard coleman

 

[QUOTE=...Hummmmmm.......I wonder why 90% of the Le Mans,F1,and Nasacar dont have ABS equipped cars....ohhh and yes I do believe they race in the rain.[/QUOTE]

Because their RULES SPECIFICALLY BAN ABS!!!

 

Actually, I track my car on a regular basis. Do you?

Just as I suspected. You removed the ABS because you were too cheap to fix it and now have justified to yourself that the car brakes better now. A very typical and human reaction but it doesn't mean that ABS sucks. It just means that malfunctioning ABS sucks.

Get a clue buddy. The don't have ABS equipped cars because their sanctioning bodies have regulations BANNING ABS. Guess what? A decade ago, all F1 cars DID have ABS brakes because they were allowed to. I guess even Schumacher liked the assistance.....are you saying you're a better driver than Schue?

Removing ABS on a car that sees regular street duty is just dumb IMO. I don't care how "well trained" you are (more of that internet he-man BS), you will not perfectly threshold brake on the street when you need to.

EDIT: OK, I'm done in your thread now, good luck with your kits. Just trying to present an opposite and valid viewpoint for the retention of ABS for street-driven cars.

 

Only the very best in the world believe they can get any better braking out of the car than the ABS system can... if you don't have an FIA super Liscense, you're probably not one of them.

If you're car is a pure track car, AND you simply like the idea of not having ABS (perhaps your practicing threshhold braking to go racing in a car that isn't allowed it), fine, but I agree with Rynberg. Don't kid yourself.

On the track, you're not really likely to make a true "panic" stop... not so on the street. I'm not too proud to say that i've been totally surprised by some moron while I was talking to a passenger, or something else... and I still have an undamaged car because of the ABS. Call it cheap insurance...

 

wow...i love the way these debates escalate...we should get down to a bar and discuss it over a few crates of bud.

I would personally see this mod as another 'simplification' mod....that is euphemism for... 'i have an expensive fault/ part to replace/fix and i just want to eliminate it to make life simpler/cheaper'.