'99 rats nest replacement block
07-04-04, 02:42 PM
#26
Michael,
Thanks for the info. Here's my thing. I don't know/understand what would make a solenoid go bad, but if I were to try this out, I'd want to get a new replacement box, since I'm getting a new engine, new turbos, etc. No sense in using used parts.
If I went that route, I'd think I can get some serious mileage out of the solenoids w/o having to worry about them. I think the $500 would be worth it, because it would GREATLY simplify the dreaded rat's nest, would simplify troubleshooting problems w/ running sequential twins (which I plan on doing), and hell, it would be very fun and unique to try.
As for cutting and splicing the factory harness...my issue wouldn't be what's cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I'm not loaded w/ cash. But, if cutting and splicing the factory harness is less reliable (substantially) than getting a 99 harness, I prob. wouldn't want to go that route. So my question is...does it make a difference (cutting & splicing, or getting the 99?)
su_maverick, I'm not doing jack myself lol. Look at my forum handle. It's FDNewbie for a reason haha. But I want to have a nice long talk w/ my engine builder & tuner, see what he thinks, and if he likes the idea (ie is comfortable w/ doing it, and sees potential gains), and if he's game, then yea, I'm ALL over this.
~Ramy
Thanks for the info. Here's my thing. I don't know/understand what would make a solenoid go bad, but if I were to try this out, I'd want to get a new replacement box, since I'm getting a new engine, new turbos, etc. No sense in using used parts.
If I went that route, I'd think I can get some serious mileage out of the solenoids w/o having to worry about them. I think the $500 would be worth it, because it would GREATLY simplify the dreaded rat's nest, would simplify troubleshooting problems w/ running sequential twins (which I plan on doing), and hell, it would be very fun and unique to try.
As for cutting and splicing the factory harness...my issue wouldn't be what's cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I'm not loaded w/ cash. But, if cutting and splicing the factory harness is less reliable (substantially) than getting a 99 harness, I prob. wouldn't want to go that route. So my question is...does it make a difference (cutting & splicing, or getting the 99?)
su_maverick, I'm not doing jack myself lol. Look at my forum handle. It's FDNewbie for a reason haha. But I want to have a nice long talk w/ my engine builder & tuner, see what he thinks, and if he likes the idea (ie is comfortable w/ doing it, and sees potential gains), and if he's game, then yea, I'm ALL over this.
~Ramy
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-04-04 at 02:44 PM.
07-04-04, 04:04 PM
#27
Back in the 7 life again
Hey FDN, who are you using for the rebuild, mine will be comming up soon (prolly off season) since I have 81k on the origional right now. I am looking for someone to do the rebuild with the better apex seals and street porting for around 4k. Bret at RP said it would be more like 5k for that. Keep me updated on the prices. I might be close behind.
07-04-04, 06:06 PM
#31
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Just forget it.I have a 99 jspec engine wiring harness,body wiring harnesss,the famous black box,the different positioned ignition coils,slightly different omp,99 ecu,99 boost sensor(2 bar),STOCK downpipe, and a few other things that are different from a 93-95.I tried to used them to my 93 but its nearly impossible.You have to remove and change a ton of cables incuding the removal of the dashboard so at the end i kept from the 99 engine the short block,downpipe,efini y-pipe,tranny and used the old rat nest and engine harness.If you want i can post some pics....
P.S i think the link mahjik posted displays everything i have.....
P.S i think the link mahjik posted displays everything i have.....
07-04-04, 06:10 PM
#32
Back in the 7 life again
well crap, any mechys out there that would be interested in creating such a thing? you would probably have a finger in every FD owners wallet if you did.
FDN- are you doing the pull and install or is that going to be local?
FDN- are you doing the pull and install or is that going to be local?
07-04-04, 06:47 PM
#33
EFS.O, you're destroying my hopes lol
So you're the guy that had the box, and the pics of US vs JDM parts were posted of?
And what's this about the the different positioned ignition coils, slightly different omp, and the 99 boost sensor? Are those required to run the black box?
su_maverick, the question is, would any mechanic think it's worthwhile to go through all the effort...you'd have to know exactly how much work it would involve, and the pros and cons of having it done. Not a spur of the moment decision.
Oh and yea my car's going to Texas to have the work done.
So you're the guy that had the box, and the pics of US vs JDM parts were posted of?
And what's this about the the different positioned ignition coils, slightly different omp, and the 99 boost sensor? Are those required to run the black box?
su_maverick, the question is, would any mechanic think it's worthwhile to go through all the effort...you'd have to know exactly how much work it would involve, and the pros and cons of having it done. Not a spur of the moment decision.
Oh and yea my car's going to Texas to have the work done.
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-04-04 at 07:06 PM.
07-04-04, 08:40 PM
#34
Back in the 7 life again
Well, I was refering to a mechanical engineer with a handy copy of AutoCAD lying around but whatever. In my opinion, I do think there needs to be more focus on keeping the machines that are dear to our hearts out of the shop. Thats why Im interested in the MAF thread.
FDN- wow, wish I had your money, I have to stay local
FDN- wow, wish I had your money, I have to stay local
07-04-04, 09:20 PM
#35
Originally posted by su_maverick
Well, I was refering to a mechanical engineer with a handy copy of AutoCAD lying around but whatever. In my opinion, I do think there needs to be more focus on keeping the machines that are dear to our hearts out of the shop. Thats why Im interested in the MAF thread.
Well, I was refering to a mechanical engineer with a handy copy of AutoCAD lying around but whatever. In my opinion, I do think there needs to be more focus on keeping the machines that are dear to our hearts out of the shop. Thats why Im interested in the MAF thread.
FDN- wow, wish I had your money, I have to stay local
Besides, I wanna do it once, and do it right. Gotham is one hell of a shop...
07-04-04, 09:53 PM
#40
Back in the 7 life again
FD- no prob
As to the black box, I thought this idea was canned due to a no go from EFS. It seems like the only way would be a custom piece to fit the 93-95s. As for Apex, would AP Engineering (their training/cusom wing) possibly be interested? This of course, would require someone who has any type of connection. It would also be a useful tool for the MAF conversion.
As to the black box, I thought this idea was canned due to a no go from EFS. It seems like the only way would be a custom piece to fit the 93-95s. As for Apex, would AP Engineering (their training/cusom wing) possibly be interested? This of course, would require someone who has any type of connection. It would also be a useful tool for the MAF conversion.
07-04-04, 09:56 PM
#41
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no no no, dont try to replace the whole damm harness, just cut and solder the newer plugs onto the older harness, use some shrink tube and it will be just as reliable as stock... but there still are vacum lines going from the box to the misc valves and such, so just doing a good vacum line job on a stock 93-95 should last quite a while.
Michael
Michael
Last edited by TechTrix; 07-04-04 at 09:59 PM.
07-04-04, 10:05 PM
#43
su_maverick, I don't quit that easily hehe 
Michael,
Don't take this the wrong way, but you're the only one who's saying it's very doable, so either you really know what you're talking about from 1st hand experience, or you're guessing lol. I'm just curious which one it is...because this could prove to be expensive if it doesn't go as smoothly as planned, you know?
Also, check out what's written below (from earlier in this thread):
Anyone know what the deal is w/ the coils being moved? This isn't the first time I've heard something about this. Can you just move your stock coils? And I guess you can just figure out the vaccuum hose deal while you're doing it. Diff sizes and lengths aren't really an issue...I gotta do a vaccuum hose job anyways while the engine and turbos are out...
Originally posted by TechTrix
no no no, dont try to replace the whole damm harness, just cut and solder the newer plugs onto the older harness, use some shrink tube and it will be just as reliable as stock... but there still are vacum lines going from the box to the misc valves and such, so just doing a good vacum line job on a stock 93-95 should last quite a while.
Michael
no no no, dont try to replace the whole damm harness, just cut and solder the newer plugs onto the older harness, use some shrink tube and it will be just as reliable as stock... but there still are vacum lines going from the box to the misc valves and such, so just doing a good vacum line job on a stock 93-95 should last quite a while.
Michael
Don't take this the wrong way, but you're the only one who's saying it's very doable, so either you really know what you're talking about from 1st hand experience, or you're guessing lol. I'm just curious which one it is...because this could prove to be expensive if it doesn't go as smoothly as planned, you know?
Also, check out what's written below (from earlier in this thread):
Originally posted by zUMIEz
Does anybody know if it snaps into a big grid or are there separate leads off of the harness for each of the 7 connectors?
Does anybody know if it snaps into a big grid or are there separate leads off of the harness for each of the 7 connectors?
Originally posted by j9fd3s
the actual haness looks pretty similar, its just got different plugs on the end of it. it does also route slightly differently.
they actually moved a lot of stuff around for that vaccum block, the coils are in a different place and the 6-7 remaining vacuum lines go to slightly different spots, and are different sizes
the actual haness looks pretty similar, its just got different plugs on the end of it. it does also route slightly differently.
they actually moved a lot of stuff around for that vaccum block, the coils are in a different place and the 6-7 remaining vacuum lines go to slightly different spots, and are different sizes
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-04-04 at 10:07 PM.
07-05-04, 01:24 AM
#44
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Originally posted by FDNewbie
EFS.O, you're destroying my hopes lol
So you're the guy that had the box, and the pics of US vs JDM parts were posted of?
And what's this about the the different positioned ignition coils, slightly different omp, and the 99 boost sensor? Are those required to run the black box?
su_maverick, the question is, would any mechanic think it's worthwhile to go through all the effort...you'd have to know exactly how much work it would involve, and the pros and cons of having it done. Not a spur of the moment decision.
Oh and yea my car's going to Texas to have the work done.
EFS.O, you're destroying my hopes lol
So you're the guy that had the box, and the pics of US vs JDM parts were posted of?
And what's this about the the different positioned ignition coils, slightly different omp, and the 99 boost sensor? Are those required to run the black box?
su_maverick, the question is, would any mechanic think it's worthwhile to go through all the effort...you'd have to know exactly how much work it would involve, and the pros and cons of having it done. Not a spur of the moment decision.
Oh and yea my car's going to Texas to have the work done.
.Anyway,the pics are not mine,but from an identical engine like the one i bought used..Now that i recall even the relays to the front of the car,above the radiator is differentl things,even the fuse box inside the car has different "routing".If you really want to dive,try to find a 99 factory wiring manual,translate it from japanese,and maybe in a couple of months you'll work this out....And what's this about the the different positioned ignition coils, slightly different omp, and the 99 boost sensor? Are those required to run the black box?
Last edited by EFS.O; 07-05-04 at 01:29 AM.
07-05-04, 01:50 AM
#46
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Just to add more crap onto the pile - someone asked about if they had the PFC if it would matter what year the rest of the stuff was from (ie sensors, etc). It really WOULD make a difference regardless of whether you have a PFC or stock ECU because over the years they've switched from 8bit to 16bit and there might even be a 32 bit(not sure?) ECU in the FD. I know for sure that after about 95-96 the FDs have a 16bit ECU which is VERY different from our's in North America. I don't know if the ECU even has anything to do with the project that you're working on now but I just thought I'd let you know from my previous findings...
07-05-04, 02:07 AM
#47
Hmm...I didn't know that. So do FDs that are 97 and up still run PFCs in Japan? If so, I'd imagine it's a diff version PFC?
The "project" is simple...I'm trying to see if we can switch the speed density-based system of the FD, which isn't so accurate, to a MAF-based sensor system. It holds promise to make tuning FDs MUCH simpler, and greatly reducing the possibility of running lean and detonating from stupid stuff like boost creep and spike, since the ECU could dynamically sense changes in airflow, and automatically correct the AFR accordingly... See https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=324071
At the same time, I was curious if I could simplify the rat's nest w/ this magical black box haha.
Maybe I'm getting so far ahead of myself, and am being way to overly ambitious...but I came across both of these possibilities purely by chance, and they seemed like no-brainers to me...
The "project" is simple...I'm trying to see if we can switch the speed density-based system of the FD, which isn't so accurate, to a MAF-based sensor system. It holds promise to make tuning FDs MUCH simpler, and greatly reducing the possibility of running lean and detonating from stupid stuff like boost creep and spike, since the ECU could dynamically sense changes in airflow, and automatically correct the AFR accordingly... See https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=324071
At the same time, I was curious if I could simplify the rat's nest w/ this magical black box haha.
Maybe I'm getting so far ahead of myself, and am being way to overly ambitious...but I came across both of these possibilities purely by chance, and they seemed like no-brainers to me...
07-05-04, 09:48 AM
#48
Back in the 7 life again
Im not saying that we drop the black box idea, just shelve it for now since I think the MAF conversion might be a little easier and the benifits seem substantial (sp).
07-05-04, 10:04 AM
#49
Originally posted by daem0n
Just to add more crap onto the pile - someone asked about if they had the PFC if it would matter what year the rest of the stuff was from (ie sensors, etc). It really WOULD make a difference regardless of whether you have a PFC or stock ECU because over the years they've switched from 8bit to 16bit and there might even be a 32 bit(not sure?) ECU in the FD. I know for sure that after about 95-96 the FDs have a 16bit ECU which is VERY different from our's in North America. I don't know if the ECU even has anything to do with the project that you're working on now but I just thought I'd let you know from my previous findings...
Just to add more crap onto the pile - someone asked about if they had the PFC if it would matter what year the rest of the stuff was from (ie sensors, etc). It really WOULD make a difference regardless of whether you have a PFC or stock ECU because over the years they've switched from 8bit to 16bit and there might even be a 32 bit(not sure?) ECU in the FD. I know for sure that after about 95-96 the FDs have a 16bit ECU which is VERY different from our's in North America. I don't know if the ECU even has anything to do with the project that you're working on now but I just thought I'd let you know from my previous findings...
As long as "the box" has the same solenoids (Charge Relief, Charge Control, etc), then there shouldn't be a problem hooking up a 93-95 harness as long as you can get connectors (and extend the wiring as needed).
The main problem is where/how it will be located.
Now, as for using the complete '99 setup, yes, that would require the whole setup (updated ECU, etc) since the sensor are most likely different/updated than the North American models.
07-05-04, 11:02 AM
#50
Originally posted by Mahjik
As long as "the box" has the same solenoids (Charge Relief, Charge Control, etc), then there shouldn't be a problem hooking up a 93-95 harness as long as you can get connectors (and extend the wiring as needed).
The main problem is where/how it will be located.
As long as "the box" has the same solenoids (Charge Relief, Charge Control, etc), then there shouldn't be a problem hooking up a 93-95 harness as long as you can get connectors (and extend the wiring as needed).
The main problem is where/how it will be located.