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I mean, I know this is conceptual, but if it was real I'd buy it.
Yep, me too. I personally find the concept extremely cool (given it doesn't resemble anything like the video game vehicle) and I'll do without the fictitious engine. The new e-rotary emblem is dope though. I figured if a product were actually able to make it to market, it would primarily be some form of electric.
And I personally can't stomach to read anything on the 'mazda' official site, barf. The first paragraph of the link with 'more info' was just the excerpt you already posted and nothing else. Then there's their 'buy mazda, we care / we're artists, we swear' advertisement / propaganda video. More barf. Who believes this junk? It's like how they try to associate kodo with inanimate objects? Like WHAT?!? Blows my mind. This is a much deeper concept which shouldn't be used for monetization. Shame on you mazda. All that 'zoom-zoom' magic is so far gone they don't even know what they once were and their marketing dept/ design teams, etc need to look themselves in the mirror and ask where they're leading this company. Success or oblivion? Current sales / production numbers speak for themselves and so do us 'enthusiasts.' It's a serious bummer.
Last edited by Federighi; 01-17-22 at 11:11 AM.
Reason: typos
Yep, me too. I personally find the concept extremely cool (given it doesn't resemble anything like the video game vehicle) and I'll do without the fictitious engine. The new e-rotary emblem is dope though. I figured if a product were actually able to make it to market, it would primarily be some form of electric.
And I personally can't stomach to read anything on the 'mazda' official site, barf. The first paragraph of the link with 'more info' was just the excerpt you already posted and nothing else. Then there's their 'buy mazda, we care / we're artists, we swear' advertisement / propaganda video. More barf. Who believes this junk? It's like how they try to associate kodo with inanimate objects? Like WHAT?!? Blows my mind. This is a much deeper concept which shouldn't be used for monetization. Shame on you mazda. All that 'zoom-zoom' magic is so far gone they don't even know what they once were and their marketing dept/ design teams, etc need to look themselves in the mirror and ask where they're leading this company. Success or oblivion? Current sales / production numbers speak for themselves and so do us 'enthusiasts.' It's a serious bummer.
I’m not going to lie...I am REALLY confused by this post. I was going to reply the other day and decided to just come back to it.
First, the frustration with the website confuses me because that excerpt is pretty much in line with what you said earlier in this thread.
Second, design has been at the core of Mazda since *at least* the FD RX-7 design days. I have had the pleasure of speaking with automotive designers and multiple other experts in the industry who hold Mazda in very high regard for their commitment to this. Mazda has also documented the FD RX-7’s creation quite extensively, and that commitment was very apparent over three decades ago. “Junk” …?
Not only is Mazda really passionate about this, but they also have to point consumers to factors like these because they wouldn’t fare well in the boring “automotive as an appliance” part of the market where much bigger manufacturers can fare better. Not that Mazda would ever want to do that anyway.
Third, 2021 was their best sales year since 1994. Why are you talking like they’re a company on the ropes and seemingly suffering from lack of leadership? They seem to be heading in a positive direction.
2020 wasn’t bad either. Here is NYT article for your consideration:
Sorry for the confusion. Let me elaborate and hopefully it will help. I'm ultimately just a customer at the end of the day and these are my very subjective opinions.
#1) mazda should at the very least be able to conjure up more passionate words than I and to put something together which represents their nations struggle in a much more meaningful way than what is featured on that site. One paragraph (which I spouted out in a rant as you pointed out) doesn't do it by a long shot, sorry. The American military performed flyby's over Hiroshima for days (multiple!) observing the devastation, only to later turn Japanese civilians who survived from the nearby blast zone into test subjects (notice I said test, we did not treat mind you) and report their findings. If you're unaware of the full horror the US released on Japan on Aug 6th 1945, I'd suggest watching a few doc's on the Genbaku Dome for reference. Let alone it took 70+ years for the US Gov't to offer our 'condolences' via #44. Mr. Yamamoto lived in Hiroshima during WW2 and survived the blast. I have personally known Japanese-Americans who were forced into internment camps here in the Bay Area, as well as meeting brave servicemen from all sides (axis and allied). It is with great respect and honor that I commend those who have lived and died for what they believed in. This means something and it is much more than the pieces of metal they produce. To me, the human spirit is nearly synonymous with their 'spirit of rotary' philosophy but unfortunately this has essentially been thrown into the dumpster by mazda and in general, it's rotary enthusiast community imo. I used to read all the material from developers / designers regarding the development and concepts behind their brand too but that reality is far removed from what exists today; mostly these 'click-bait' articles and ambiguous patents. Which is good for 'site traffic' and whatnot but I don't gauge my experience in life by things represented on a computer screen.
#2) I agree the design teams have done their part by 'steering the course' but not much else imo. I'm of the thought to believe it has something to do with how the Japanese hiring process works out of college and that this limits the amount of internal input allowed (seniority, experience, eduction, etc) and also can have the potential to 'shut off' outside influence(s). 'Shukatsu' is the term I believe and there are quite a few articles and even movie on the subject. Japan has very different social structures, nothing new here.
#3) a. BMW had their best sales year to date, ever. b. Tesla is not far behind. c. mazda is being carried by their sav/suv line-up and I don't particularly see that working out long-term for them given the current automotive 'climate' (yes pun intended). I was fully behind the brand when they chose not to develop e-tech in favor of improving their sky-active efficiency. It's unfortunate their dedicated 'E' vehicle isn't selling in CA, range anxiety is a real thing. Maybe an E-rotary could fair better? But I'm also personally not into this new Toyota co-development. I can understand the reasoning as to why but I'd prefer a pure mazda myself.
And yes, imo MNAO is suffering from leadership as well as an identify crisis if you asked me. Let alone they've doubled down their bets on grassrootin' tootin' motorsports and the good ole Miata.
Last edited by Federighi; 01-19-22 at 12:46 PM.
Reason: editing typos
i hate to bear good news, but the inbound (2024 probably) Mazda 6 is on a new RWD platform... for the engine they have taking the existing engine and just added 2 cylinders. https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...6-future-cars/
i'd post a pic but it looks exactly the same as the last 6.
Well Mazda just launched a new line of Rotary cars, in 1/43 scale. Available at some dealerships, msrp on the #55 car is 125, the others are less, so its quite affordable.
Fundamentally, there are some big problems with the Wankel rotary engine. They burn oil, and that (in any capacity) is a complete non-starter in this day and age. Making it a hybrid, or electrically augmented will not change that.
Mazda must find a way for a rotary to not consume oil for it to stand a chance. Full stop. After that, they can solve the excessive heat problems and excessive fuel consumption.
The FR platform is inspiring, but I wont expect to see rotary power.
Well Mazda just launched a new line of Rotary cars, in 1/43 scale. Available at some dealerships, msrp on the #55 car is 125, the others are less, so its quite affordable.
Mazda must find a way for a rotary to not consume oil for it to stand a chance. Full stop. After that, they can solve the excessive heat problems and excessive fuel consumption.
I think it's more important to give the masses (i.e. sheep) the illusion it does not burn oil, and give it a separate sump to draw from, whereby the level in the engine does not drop between oil changes. "Not a drop of oil burned from the crankcase".
I agree with quichedem and MisterX. You both made excellent points imo.
I also never got collecting toys as an adult. Having your childhood collection is one thing but I know of many middle-aged men doing this and it completely escapes me. Even my older brother (41yo) has been collecting toys like a madman for the past few years. His response is that he's the father of a young family and they are 'for the kids' / 'I'm doing this for the kids' but ultimately is a self-centered/serving activity. The children never see any of his spoils; his collection is for himself. Now don't get me wrong, I love ninja turtles from my childhood as much as the next guy but you won't see me wearing merch / print t's / buying junk, etc because my taste for what I consider 'entertainment' has grown into much more refined and sophisticated pursuits. I assert that the things you love as a child will naturally evolve into deeper relationships throughout one's lifetime and sometimes (for the lucky) into a career. I'm in no way suggesting you shouldn't share that which you hold near and dear to your heart but society at large (current mainstream CA values) has lost all concept of what really matters. It's very concerning imo.
It's what I describe as the 'delay in adulthood' or the 'prolonging of adolescence' and we're living in a whole different world from that of our fathers. Racing towards an even uncertain future.
I think it's more important to give the masses (i.e. sheep) the illusion it does not burn oil, and give it a separate sump to draw from, whereby the level in the engine does not drop between oil changes. "Not a drop of oil burned from the crankcase".
99% of the unwashed mouth-breathers operating their automobiles (when they're not busy operating their phones) can't even be trusted to put the right gas in their cars. Imagine telling these same idiots to make sure their "lube juice container is topped-off." Maybe Mazda can make an app that automatically sends their fancy rotary-powered car in for regular refills of 2 stroke as part of the Mazda premium experience subscription.
I think the key is, to make it a higher-end specialty car. "entry level" and "rotary' don't belong in the same thought anymore, as the average buyer is going to expect a typically utilitarian, no fuss japanese car. You might have some luck getting a specialty car owner to add "rotary fluid" when prompted.
I think the key is, to make it a higher-end specialty car. "entry level" and "rotary' don't belong in the same thought anymore, as the average buyer is going to expect a typically utilitarian, no fuss japanese car. You might have some luck getting a specialty car owner to add "rotary fluid" when prompted.
that was one of my ideas a few years ago, they should just make a few more 787B's.
99% of the unwashed mouth-breathers operating their automobiles (when they're not busy operating their phones) can't even be trusted to put the right gas in their cars. Imagine telling these same idiots to make sure their "lube juice container is topped-off." Maybe Mazda can make an app that automatically sends their fancy rotary-powered car in for regular refills of 2 stroke as part of the Mazda premium experience subscription.
all of those things are skills which can be learned. however it is hard to get someone to teach those skills.
they could make like diesels with urea, a separate 3 or 4gal fuel lubricant tank that lasts 15k miles with a failsafe system from the crankcase in case its not filled up in time.
I'll repeat and simply for the folks clearly not listening. Modern engines simply cannot burn oil as part of their operation!!
all modern piston engines burn oil as part of their operation. where have you been?
from Consumer Reports:
"The manufacturers write the rules on what’s acceptable when it comes to oil consumption,” Lynch says. “There’s no government standard on oil consumption, or how much oil an engine of a given displacement needs to have in its sump.”
Subaru“Oil consumption is an inherent feature of all internal combustion engines and the rate of consumption can be affected by such factors as transmission type, driving style, terrain and temperature. Our internal data shows that very few of our owners have experienced above-expectation oil consumption. We have continued to develop our products and our data suggests that this already low rate has been further reduced, if not eliminated. However, if an owner feels they are using more oil than they should be, they should contact their retailer, who will assess the situation on a case-by-case basis and can perform a consumption test to determine what actions should be taken. Different drivers in the same car may experience different results.”
If everyday people can fill their water bottle/thermos/coffee maker, they sure as **** can top off a 50 oz reservoir under their hood. Those who can't should either declare themselves retarded, or just give up on life.
I'm very much aware that production engines burn oil. My DD is a WRX! The high consumers tend to be high performance engines, though. Forced induction.
I meant that piston ICEs do not burn it in the same way as a wankel ICE. In other words, all other modern piston ICEs do not squirt oil directly into the combustion chamber to lubricate something. Not so far as I've heard, at least.
01-17-22, 09:10 AM
