Need advice on how to proceed with the failed resurrection of a '93 twin turbo FD 13B
05-02-20, 06:27 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Need advice on how to proceed with the failed resurrection of a '93 twin turbo FD 13B
Hi community need some advice. At best I'm an amateur mechanic...more of a hobbyist. My landlord asked me to work on his 93 twin turbo FD. The car was completely dead. No crank, no start, no nothing. It had sat for some 7 or 8 years getting water poured directly onto the hood and into engine bay courtesy of the buildings gutter outlet. This will become relevant shortly.
Long story short I decided to remove the rats nest to service the fuel injectors. When I was able to see all of the wiring underneath the exhaust manifold/rats nest, I discovered two things. (1) the cars wiring had been worked on previously and it wasn't in the factory configuration. I'll list the modifications done to the vehicle below. (2) many of the smaller gauge wires to the multitude of electrical connectors were severely rusted and basically disintegrating. I began to solder as many as I could and there were a lot. Unfortunately some wires were beyond repair and many connectors simply snapped off where the wire and connector meet preventing me from attempting to repair them. I ended up with 5 connectors that couldn't be connected to their respective components. Don't ask me what components they go to because this car is so complex that I have no idea. The point is there are multiple connections that aren't being made and multiple solder points in very compromised wiring.
I put everything back to together and the car cranked but not surprisingly it wouldn't start. I've got fuel going to the fuel injectors but no spark at the plugs and not sure that the injectors are actually injecting fuel (can't hear them clicking). I've put an inordinate amount of time into this car and frankly it is beyond my pay grade; I don't have the expertise to fix this car.
I would like to hear what the members of this community would do next so I can give my landlord some sound advice. Would you sell the beast? How much would it cost to have it repaired by a qualified mechanic? Does the entire twin turbo wiring complex need to be fabricated from scratch? What are your thoughts in general?
More data about the car
Known modifications per the owner: Turbos polished, catalytic removed and custom exhaust installed, ECM modified or possibly replaced to deliver more power, and I believe he said the fuel injectors were replaced or modified to deliver more fuel.
Car is registered in California and registration is not up to date. In other words, it was not placed in non-op status and it has been accruing registration late fees for 10 to 15 years.
What I did: Fuel tank was removed, cleaned and treated for rust. Fuel pump and fuel filter was replaced. Fuel lines flushed and cleaned. Fuel injectors tested and replaced/repaired as needed. Removed aftermarket alarm. I tested compression using a standard compression tester and readings seemed to be within range. It was a while ago and I don't recall the PSI. Spark plugs replaced. Belts replaced. Oil changed.
Cosmetics: Body is dead straight with no damage. Paint is severely faded and appearing to rust in some areas. Interior is essentially ruined from water and moisture. Leather and carpet is full of mold.
That's all I got guys. Its a hot mess. I look forward to reading your responses.
Best!
Long story short I decided to remove the rats nest to service the fuel injectors. When I was able to see all of the wiring underneath the exhaust manifold/rats nest, I discovered two things. (1) the cars wiring had been worked on previously and it wasn't in the factory configuration. I'll list the modifications done to the vehicle below. (2) many of the smaller gauge wires to the multitude of electrical connectors were severely rusted and basically disintegrating. I began to solder as many as I could and there were a lot. Unfortunately some wires were beyond repair and many connectors simply snapped off where the wire and connector meet preventing me from attempting to repair them. I ended up with 5 connectors that couldn't be connected to their respective components. Don't ask me what components they go to because this car is so complex that I have no idea. The point is there are multiple connections that aren't being made and multiple solder points in very compromised wiring.
I put everything back to together and the car cranked but not surprisingly it wouldn't start. I've got fuel going to the fuel injectors but no spark at the plugs and not sure that the injectors are actually injecting fuel (can't hear them clicking). I've put an inordinate amount of time into this car and frankly it is beyond my pay grade; I don't have the expertise to fix this car.
I would like to hear what the members of this community would do next so I can give my landlord some sound advice. Would you sell the beast? How much would it cost to have it repaired by a qualified mechanic? Does the entire twin turbo wiring complex need to be fabricated from scratch? What are your thoughts in general?
More data about the car
Known modifications per the owner: Turbos polished, catalytic removed and custom exhaust installed, ECM modified or possibly replaced to deliver more power, and I believe he said the fuel injectors were replaced or modified to deliver more fuel.
Car is registered in California and registration is not up to date. In other words, it was not placed in non-op status and it has been accruing registration late fees for 10 to 15 years.
What I did: Fuel tank was removed, cleaned and treated for rust. Fuel pump and fuel filter was replaced. Fuel lines flushed and cleaned. Fuel injectors tested and replaced/repaired as needed. Removed aftermarket alarm. I tested compression using a standard compression tester and readings seemed to be within range. It was a while ago and I don't recall the PSI. Spark plugs replaced. Belts replaced. Oil changed.
Cosmetics: Body is dead straight with no damage. Paint is severely faded and appearing to rust in some areas. Interior is essentially ruined from water and moisture. Leather and carpet is full of mold.
That's all I got guys. Its a hot mess. I look forward to reading your responses.
Best!
05-02-20, 06:39 AM
#2
For the harness, it sounds like the best option would be to find a good used one. Would likely eliminate a lot (more) time and headache. See what you get for spark and fuel after that then diagnose as necessary.
If they are thinking about selling, it would certainly be worth more running but from your description it would take a lot to get the car back in decent shape. Paint, and with these cars, interior pieces are not cheap.
If they are thinking about selling, it would certainly be worth more running but from your description it would take a lot to get the car back in decent shape. Paint, and with these cars, interior pieces are not cheap.
05-02-20, 09:17 AM
#3
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if it was mine, i would kind of like to figure out the no spark/no fuel thing (a stock ecu will throw codes, before spending $$ i like to make sure i'm fixing the problem). new wiring is still available, from Mazda for about $1100, and there is a rywire aftermarket for a bit less, among others. it sounds like that would be the next step, once its running, its sellable/fixable
05-02-20, 11:24 AM
#4
Pictures of the broken connectors could help ID the problem, may just need some resistors to help diagnose that it is in fact the harness. Did the ECU get wet? The wires that send signal to the igniter and coils wrap around the entire front end of the car, could be a culprit if they're damaged.
05-03-20, 01:15 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
For the harness, it sounds like the best option would be to find a good used one. Would likely eliminate a lot (more) time and headache. See what you get for spark and fuel after that then diagnose as necessary.
If they are thinking about selling, it would certainly be worth more running but from your description it would take a lot to get the car back in decent shape. Paint, and with these cars, interior pieces are not cheap.
If they are thinking about selling, it would certainly be worth more running but from your description it would take a lot to get the car back in decent shape. Paint, and with these cars, interior pieces are not cheap.
05-03-20, 01:22 PM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Pictures of the broken connectors could help ID the problem, may just need some resistors to help diagnose that it is in fact the harness. Did the ECU get wet? The wires that send signal to the igniter and coils wrap around the entire front end of the car, could be a culprit if they're damaged.
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b3delta (05-05-20)
05-04-20, 10:05 AM
#7
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It's going to be an uphill battle to get it to start, not to mention driving.
It's going to be hard to say how much damage to the wiring harness there is. Could also have rusted out relays under the hood.
Could it be fixed? Yes. I believe every FD needs to be on the road. But, it sounds like it's going to be a complicated job to get it going. The engine harness should probably be replaced with a new or good used one. The main front harness may have issues as well. Also it's hard to say if the engine itself is going to be good and it's possible the engine is blown and has sat so long because of that.
It's VERY hard to say how much a shop would charge to get it running. This is going to be a by the hour troubleshooting process most likely. It could be something easy, but it could require extensive electrical troubleshooting.
Dale
It's going to be hard to say how much damage to the wiring harness there is. Could also have rusted out relays under the hood.
Could it be fixed? Yes. I believe every FD needs to be on the road. But, it sounds like it's going to be a complicated job to get it going. The engine harness should probably be replaced with a new or good used one. The main front harness may have issues as well. Also it's hard to say if the engine itself is going to be good and it's possible the engine is blown and has sat so long because of that.
It's VERY hard to say how much a shop would charge to get it running. This is going to be a by the hour troubleshooting process most likely. It could be something easy, but it could require extensive electrical troubleshooting.
Dale
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b3delta (05-05-20)
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05-05-20, 10:57 AM
#10
I'd gladly build a new emission harness once I finish mine. I'm with Dale, we need to keep the FDs alive and running.
For the igniter wires - you could build a short jumper harness from the ECU to the igniter that runs on the firewall to skip that long run around the front. Igniter has 7 wires and the spark signal only uses 3 of em from the ECU.
For the igniter wires - you could build a short jumper harness from the ECU to the igniter that runs on the firewall to skip that long run around the front. Igniter has 7 wires and the spark signal only uses 3 of em from the ECU.
05-05-20, 11:42 AM
#11
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I'd gladly build a new emission harness once I finish mine. I'm with Dale, we need to keep the FDs alive and running.
For the igniter wires - you could build a short jumper harness from the ECU to the igniter that runs on the firewall to skip that long run around the front. Igniter has 7 wires and the spark signal only uses 3 of em from the ECU.
For the igniter wires - you could build a short jumper harness from the ECU to the igniter that runs on the firewall to skip that long run around the front. Igniter has 7 wires and the spark signal only uses 3 of em from the ECU.
05-05-20, 12:32 PM
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