If there were to be a new Rx7 how many should they sell?
02-03-18, 11:22 AM
#1
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If there were to be a new Rx7 how many should they sell?
So if Mazda were to come out with a new Rotary car how many should they sell?
I have spent a little bit of time looking at sales numbers, and we know the 95 FD US deliveries were ~520 cars, the part that didn't click is just how few that is. Mazda made almost that number of Rx7's in the first two days of April in 1985, numbers below.
the question is, how many cars SHOULD they make? it seem to me that the 1985 production level is too high, and the 1995 level is too low.
Total Cars - 429
GSL-SE - 79
California Cars - 89
V3 - Tender Blue Metallic - 81
RH - Sunrise Red - 76
H1 - Sparkling Black Metallic - 56
K3 - Sunbeam Silver Metallic - 56
V9 - Custom Silver Metallic - 32
WU - Dover White - 29
3A - Royal Maroon Metallic - 17 (GSL-SE only)
PZ - Brilliant Black - 14 (GSL-SE only)
T9 - Traditional Brown Metallic - 13
VG - Light Beige - 8
L6 - Ocean Blue Metallic - 3
T5 - Havana Brown Metallic - 0 (i think 1984 only)
R7 - Persimmon Red Metallic - 0 (i think this is 1984 only)
C5 - Grey Cloth - 230
C2 - Red Cloth - 102
L2 - Red Leather - 50
C4 - Brown Cloth - 18
L4 - Brown Leather - 5
I have spent a little bit of time looking at sales numbers, and we know the 95 FD US deliveries were ~520 cars, the part that didn't click is just how few that is. Mazda made almost that number of Rx7's in the first two days of April in 1985, numbers below.
the question is, how many cars SHOULD they make? it seem to me that the 1985 production level is too high, and the 1995 level is too low.
Total Cars - 429
GSL-SE - 79
California Cars - 89
V3 - Tender Blue Metallic - 81
RH - Sunrise Red - 76
H1 - Sparkling Black Metallic - 56
K3 - Sunbeam Silver Metallic - 56
V9 - Custom Silver Metallic - 32
WU - Dover White - 29
3A - Royal Maroon Metallic - 17 (GSL-SE only)
PZ - Brilliant Black - 14 (GSL-SE only)
T9 - Traditional Brown Metallic - 13
VG - Light Beige - 8
L6 - Ocean Blue Metallic - 3
T5 - Havana Brown Metallic - 0 (i think 1984 only)
R7 - Persimmon Red Metallic - 0 (i think this is 1984 only)
C5 - Grey Cloth - 230
C2 - Red Cloth - 102
L2 - Red Leather - 50
C4 - Brown Cloth - 18
L4 - Brown Leather - 5
02-03-18, 01:59 PM
#2
I would say it depends on what kind of car it was.
If the new RX were a back to basics rotary that used the ND Miata components (or next gen Miata components) for a super light weight NA rotary they should make a whole bunch.
This is analogous to the 1st gen RX-7 which was a budget sports car with tons of charm built on a humble sedan running gear where the rotary engine is the center piece.
If the new RX were something like the RX-Vision on the other end of the scale and was the turbo 16X we expect they shouldn't plan on making/selling many, but putting it out there to put up some performance benchmarks and raise the prestige of the Mazda brand. Much like the 3rd gen RX-7.
If the new RX is the above with Hydrogen flex fuel capability it should further be a California/Japan exclusive product.
If the new RX were a back to basics rotary that used the ND Miata components (or next gen Miata components) for a super light weight NA rotary they should make a whole bunch.
This is analogous to the 1st gen RX-7 which was a budget sports car with tons of charm built on a humble sedan running gear where the rotary engine is the center piece.
If the new RX were something like the RX-Vision on the other end of the scale and was the turbo 16X we expect they shouldn't plan on making/selling many, but putting it out there to put up some performance benchmarks and raise the prestige of the Mazda brand. Much like the 3rd gen RX-7.
If the new RX is the above with Hydrogen flex fuel capability it should further be a California/Japan exclusive product.
02-03-18, 03:03 PM
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02-03-18, 03:10 PM
#4
Constant threat
In my opinion, any new rotary powered RX-7 would have to be a 'halo' car, with a limited production of ~500 units. One would expect it to compete with:
Power would have to be north of 400 hp, but preferably 600 hp.
Curb weight ~2,700 lbs
Mazda is a very, very small player in the world of automobiles, and as such has only limited options here. Even at a $100K - $150K price, they'd lose money on every one. It would simply be a "statement"...a "look what we can do" type of thing.
But it will never happen.
- Nissan GT-R
- Lexus LF-A
- Acura NSX
- Toyota Supra
Power would have to be north of 400 hp, but preferably 600 hp.
Curb weight ~2,700 lbs
Mazda is a very, very small player in the world of automobiles, and as such has only limited options here. Even at a $100K - $150K price, they'd lose money on every one. It would simply be a "statement"...a "look what we can do" type of thing.
But it will never happen.
02-03-18, 05:01 PM
#6
The whole point of the Rx-8 was for them to sell enough that they didn't lose money on the program. I'm betting the engine failures cost them all their profit though.
The tough thing is that 2 seat sports cars are a shrinking market. So maybe halo car is the only option, because they would be fighting for scraps trying to compete with a Mustang (at least in terms of price range).
The tough thing is that 2 seat sports cars are a shrinking market. So maybe halo car is the only option, because they would be fighting for scraps trying to compete with a Mustang (at least in terms of price range).
02-04-18, 10:04 AM
#7
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The tough thing is that 2 seat sports cars are a shrinking market. So maybe halo car is the only option, because they would be fighting for scraps trying to compete with a Mustang (at least in terms of price range).
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02-04-18, 01:34 PM
#8
Rotary Enthusiast
I agree with bajaman. It doesn't make financial sense to sell a rotary engine in volume, nor a 2-seater sports car. If they doubled or tripled the horsepower in the MX-5 or a coupe version, they'd probably only increase their market share and profit incrementally.
Selling the new RX-7 as a low-volume product would get them some exemptions in emissions and crash tests, which would allow them to sell the car in more markets. Still, the rotary engine sports car would barely meet emissions and fuel economy standards, unless Mazda has something special up their sleeve.
They appear to be making great progress with their SkyActiv program, so it makes the most sense to allocate limited resources there. The Mazda RT-24P prototype racers at the Rolex 24 still use an MZ engine – I'm not sure where they're going there: http://www.aerltd.com/our-engines/p7...gle-turbo-2.0/
Selling the new RX-7 as a low-volume product would get them some exemptions in emissions and crash tests, which would allow them to sell the car in more markets. Still, the rotary engine sports car would barely meet emissions and fuel economy standards, unless Mazda has something special up their sleeve.
They appear to be making great progress with their SkyActiv program, so it makes the most sense to allocate limited resources there. The Mazda RT-24P prototype racers at the Rolex 24 still use an MZ engine – I'm not sure where they're going there: http://www.aerltd.com/our-engines/p7...gle-turbo-2.0/
Last edited by HiWire; 02-04-18 at 01:51 PM.
02-05-18, 11:03 PM
#10
I Raise Chickens
I hope so, but maybe not. Ferrari sold 2,811 units in the US last year and they made a record profit for FY17 of 663 million dollars (globally). Sauce: https://www.thelocal.it/20180201/ita...rd-profit-2017
So in theory, Mazda could build to smallish unit sales and STILL make money. One can hope.
So in theory, Mazda could build to smallish unit sales and STILL make money. One can hope.
02-10-18, 10:48 AM
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Fait also is fine to sell the Demon, which is a 12mpg car, and the other one (dachshund? boogie man? i forget), which only gets 16mpg, and shoot the normal SRT 392 Hemi SXT only gets 18mpg...
as a footnote it is pretty appropriate that Fiat owns Chrysler, Fiat was the first to use the Hemispherical combustion chamber, in 1908.
02-10-18, 07:55 PM
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02-12-18, 02:16 PM
#17
True, but that prancing horse badge means a lot and it's something Mazda will never have. The least expensive 2018 Ferrari, the California, costs over 200k and a new La Ferrari is over a million dollars.
From here:
https://www.caranddriver.com/ferrari
From here:
https://www.caranddriver.com/ferrari
02-12-18, 04:06 PM
#18
Yeah, I still don't understand the question. Are you asking if they should make a niche hyper-performance or ultra luxury GT car or an affordable competitor to the FT86 (or F-truck lol) or if they should do a limited run of whatever they come up with so its more collectable in 30 years?
02-12-18, 08:56 PM
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Yeah, I still don't understand the question. Are you asking if they should make a niche hyper-performance or ultra luxury GT car or an affordable competitor to the FT86 (or F-truck lol) or if they should do a limited run of whatever they come up with so its more collectable in 30 years?
or maybe more to the point, they break even on the 3 now, and they make as many as they can, why does that make sense? would it not make more sense to increase profit a little?
02-12-18, 09:02 PM
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True, but that prancing horse badge means a lot and it's something Mazda will never have. The least expensive 2018 Ferrari, the California, costs over 200k and a new La Ferrari is over a million dollars.
From here:
https://www.caranddriver.com/ferrari
From here:
https://www.caranddriver.com/ferrari
i do respect Ferrari's engineering, but i'd get a 458, or lets face it for 1 million dollars, you have lots of choices.
02-13-18, 08:59 AM
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Whichever car company is smart enough to build a light weight (sm sexy rear wheel drive under 2800 lbs) sports car that's affordable (under 40k) with good power (300 to 350 HP) will sell tons.
Nobody needs a new miata but everyone needs a new FD LOL
The only car company I know that isn't going to make that car is Mazda even though it would be the perfect next gen RX and should have been built a decade ago.
Nobody needs a new miata but everyone needs a new FD LOL
The only car company I know that isn't going to make that car is Mazda even though it would be the perfect next gen RX and should have been built a decade ago.
02-17-18, 07:15 PM
#23
They should sell as many as they can. Please do not make it a limited numbers halo car.... I don't know about others, but it's actually a big negative in my perception for a company to put out an unobtainable car... If you care about us, then build a car that we can afford and enjoy.
