How to value your FD
10-30-17, 04:05 PM
#576
That attitude has never made sense to me. I just don't get it... Because when I first drove an FD in 1998 I immediately knew it was something special. It didn't matter that it was Japanese as I knew that this car was going to be a collectible (I bought that car on the spot). But then there are a bunch of people out there that I note have spent the money to get an FD, but believe they aren't worth much. Then why did they buy it in the first place if they believe the car is a bar above worthless? Or is it that they take the car's engineering and beauty for granted?
It's not like anyone is saying these cars will be worth a 1/2 million bucks, we are just talking average collectible money (appreciation not depreciation)... Or are they just mad that their cars are pieces of crap and therefore hate on anyone that has the potential to bring in premium pricing? Like I said I don't get where that attitude comes from.
10-30-17, 04:46 PM
#577
Gordon,
That attitude has never made sense to me. I just don't get it... Because when I first drove an FD in 1998 I immediately knew it was something special. It didn't matter that it was Japanese as I knew that this car was going to be a collectible (I bought that car on the spot). But then there are a bunch of people out there that I note have spent the money to get an FD, but believe they aren't worth much. Then why did they buy it in the first place if they believe the car is a bar above worthless? Or is it that they take the car's engineering and beauty for granted?
It's not like anyone is saying these cars will be worth a 1/2 million bucks, we are just talking average collectible money (appreciation not depreciation)... Or are they just mad that their cars are pieces of crap and therefore hate on anyone that has the potential to bring in premium pricing? Like I said I don't get where that attitude comes from.
That attitude has never made sense to me. I just don't get it... Because when I first drove an FD in 1998 I immediately knew it was something special. It didn't matter that it was Japanese as I knew that this car was going to be a collectible (I bought that car on the spot). But then there are a bunch of people out there that I note have spent the money to get an FD, but believe they aren't worth much. Then why did they buy it in the first place if they believe the car is a bar above worthless? Or is it that they take the car's engineering and beauty for granted?
It's not like anyone is saying these cars will be worth a 1/2 million bucks, we are just talking average collectible money (appreciation not depreciation)... Or are they just mad that their cars are pieces of crap and therefore hate on anyone that has the potential to bring in premium pricing? Like I said I don't get where that attitude comes from.
10-30-17, 06:27 PM
#578
I wish the price go up. Cause that means the lower end ones will aldo have to increase as well. Look at the supras. Premiums are in the 50+ the crap shells are going for 15~20
i dont understand why some people hate the fact that our cars are getting expensive. Its a good thing right ?
i dont understand why some people hate the fact that our cars are getting expensive. Its a good thing right ?
10-30-17, 07:46 PM
#579
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
I can tell you what the sellers listing these cars for high amounts are motivated by and that's $$$$$. They paid high twenties and want to sell for 40 or 50k. Good luck because the market isn't there yet. It's undeniably moving up but not that fast. I'd say some of these sellers have multiple low mileage cars waiting for the market to continue higher and it no doubt will and they are no doubt smart business people who will take advantage of this market. OR they will have to unload for what they paid or less if this economy or the market folds. NO Gordon I don't expect that to happen near term
PS The gem is relisted at 39,900: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Mazda-RX-7-RX-7/172946882394?hash=item28446fff5a:g:JgQAAOSwFiJZ5A5 5&vxp=mtr
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 10-30-17 at 07:49 PM.
10-30-17, 07:49 PM
#580
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
I wish the price go up. Cause that means the lower end ones will aldo have to increase as well. Look at the supras. Premiums are in the 50+ the crap shells are going for 15~20
i dont understand why some people hate the fact that our cars are getting expensive. Its a good thing right ?
i dont understand why some people hate the fact that our cars are getting expensive. Its a good thing right ?
That said I won't be in it when this car is selling for 50k plus as I will have likely completely moved onto GT3s or caymans etc.... LOL
10-30-17, 07:54 PM
#581
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
I think part of the reason is that as the value of the car goes up, the parts will also become more expensive. This will mean a hit in the pocket book for these RX7 owners if something does break. If you look at the older 911s forums, some of the old school 911 enthusiasts are frustrated because the cost of keeping their cars running has gone through the roof due to the appreciation of their cars.
I can definitely see paying 30k for a very nice RHD car for parts alone.
10-30-17, 08:06 PM
#582
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
They are worth what the mods and rolling chassis would sell for less 20 percent for your time and effort. So lets say you have 50k invested, parts sell for 25k and the roller sells for 10k then it's a 28k fd
10-30-17, 10:47 PM
#584
I am relatively neutral when it comes to LS swaps. I can see the benefits of doing it. However, IMO, the LS swapped FDs are going to have a harder time reaping the benefits of FD appreciation curve. As FD value goes up, people paying high dollars are going to want originality. Those with LS swaps are going to have a harder time getting top dollar than ones with good running rotary engines. Big reason why that LS swapped white FD in the classifieds, very nice example IMO, is having such a hard time selling.
10-31-17, 07:29 AM
#585
So here's something I've been thinking about... are stock to mildly modded FD's (not single turbo) appreciating faster than the cost of maintenance? Forgetting about gas and insurance, if the car costs say 2-3 grand a year to maintain (if you start averaging out the cost of a repaint, an engine rebuild, pillowball bushings, on a yearly basis etc) you're not "making money" on the car, you're just losing less. And losing less is fine; it sure beats a depreciating market value AND maintenance.
Let's say over 10 years you've got a paint job, an engine rebuild, and suspension overhaul, and you're using mostly OEM or OEM grade parts. That's a minimum of 10-15 thousand dollars (forgetting about inflation) if you do almost all non bodywork yourself and don't reuse questionable stuff on the engine or buy cheap suspension parts (ebay toe links that fail...). It's a minimum 1 to 2 grand per year to keep the car from deteriorating, maybe 3 or 4 grand if you don't do the labor yourself.
Let's say over 10 years you've got a paint job, an engine rebuild, and suspension overhaul, and you're using mostly OEM or OEM grade parts. That's a minimum of 10-15 thousand dollars (forgetting about inflation) if you do almost all non bodywork yourself and don't reuse questionable stuff on the engine or buy cheap suspension parts (ebay toe links that fail...). It's a minimum 1 to 2 grand per year to keep the car from deteriorating, maybe 3 or 4 grand if you don't do the labor yourself.
Last edited by arghx; 10-31-17 at 07:32 AM.
10-31-17, 08:57 AM
#586
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
I like that formula. Sounds fair to me.
I am relatively neutral when it comes to LS swaps. I can see the benefits of doing it. However, IMO, the LS swapped FDs are going to have a harder time reaping the benefits of FD appreciation curve. As FD value goes up, people paying high dollars are going to want originality. Those with LS swaps are going to have a harder time getting top dollar than ones with good running rotary engines. Big reason why that LS swapped white FD in the classifieds, very nice example IMO, is having such a hard time selling.
I am relatively neutral when it comes to LS swaps. I can see the benefits of doing it. However, IMO, the LS swapped FDs are going to have a harder time reaping the benefits of FD appreciation curve. As FD value goes up, people paying high dollars are going to want originality. Those with LS swaps are going to have a harder time getting top dollar than ones with good running rotary engines. Big reason why that LS swapped white FD in the classifieds, very nice example IMO, is having such a hard time selling.
It's not hard to say the obvious. Asking prices go up before selling prices go up. If people don't ask higher prices, prices don't go up. Saying they sometimes get less than they ask is certainly true of all markets and pricing.
Guys... Prices have gone up and are going up more. Pretty quickly if something doesn't change. This thread was started as why its hard to sell your FD for more than $25,000 and we all know that's no longer hard at all for a nice car. And let's not spend a lot of time debating what a nice car is...
Guys... Prices have gone up and are going up more. Pretty quickly if something doesn't change. This thread was started as why its hard to sell your FD for more than $25,000 and we all know that's no longer hard at all for a nice car. And let's not spend a lot of time debating what a nice car is...
When I started this thread most of the cars listed here were selling for high twenties to low 30s for the last 2 years. It's the 93 touring on tan cars with 50k miles that are given a nice detail and people/dealers listing them for 40k that pissed me off and why I started this thread. The dealer probably paid 15k for the car LOL. Now we have dealers buying them for 30k (is what they are worth) and listing them for 50k. They are even making videos to support their insane prices LOL. Sorry I'm not buying what they are selling and nobody else will for all the reason we've all discussed in this thread. NOT YET...........too many good cars still available.
So here's something I've been thinking about... are stock to mildly modded FD's (not single turbo) appreciating faster than the cost of maintenance? Forgetting about gas and insurance, if the car costs say 2-3 grand a year to maintain (if you start averaging out the cost of a repaint, an engine rebuild, pillowball bushings, on a yearly basis etc) you're not "making money" on the car, you're just losing less. And losing less is fine; it sure beats a depreciating market value AND maintenance.
Let's say over 10 years you've got a paint job, an engine rebuild, and suspension overhaul, and you're using mostly OEM or OEM grade parts. That's a minimum of 10-15 thousand dollars (forgetting about inflation) if you do almost all non bodywork yourself and don't reuse questionable stuff on the engine or buy cheap suspension parts (ebay toe links that fail...). It's a minimum 1 to 2 grand per year to keep the car from deteriorating, maybe 3 or 4 grand if you don't do the labor yourself.
Let's say over 10 years you've got a paint job, an engine rebuild, and suspension overhaul, and you're using mostly OEM or OEM grade parts. That's a minimum of 10-15 thousand dollars (forgetting about inflation) if you do almost all non bodywork yourself and don't reuse questionable stuff on the engine or buy cheap suspension parts (ebay toe links that fail...). It's a minimum 1 to 2 grand per year to keep the car from deteriorating, maybe 3 or 4 grand if you don't do the labor yourself.
If it was this easy we'd all be rich
What I've always loved about the FD is you can buy a nice one for 25k and drive it and if you maintain it you won't loose much money UNLESS the engine blows up etc...etc... There is no free lunch but at least with this car you own a fun sports car and it beats buying a new mustang and selling it 5 years later for 1/2 of what you paid.
10-31-17, 09:51 AM
#587
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
As far as asking prices moving up or down. It works just like it always has or if the car sells super fast it was priced too low, super slow and the price was too high.....
So now we'll use the above reference for the SSM R2 that we all know about. It was originally listed all over the place at 40k plus (clearly seller testing the market and failing) then reduced to 36k and finally sold for 29k to the dealer 6 months ago. Please explain how it's suddenly a 40k plus FD? Just because the dealer says so.....insert presidential quote "WwwwRrrrrONG"
So now we'll use the above reference for the SSM R2 that we all know about. It was originally listed all over the place at 40k plus (clearly seller testing the market and failing) then reduced to 36k and finally sold for 29k to the dealer 6 months ago. Please explain how it's suddenly a 40k plus FD? Just because the dealer says so.....insert presidential quote "WwwwRrrrrONG"
10-31-17, 10:50 AM
#588
Saw a couple of dreamers on Kijiji today:
$24,000 ($18,600USD)
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ationFlag=true
-50,000KM (30,000miles)
-RHD
-Touring
-Swapped to manual
-Engine milage unknown
$28,000 ($21,700USD)
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ationFlag=true
-82,000km (51,000 miles)
-LHD
-Base
-EGR, emissions, air pump removed
-aftermarket pulleys
-aftermatket sound system
The seller says: "This car can be sold for $30,000++ and many clean stock examples like this have recently sold at this price level. These cars are only going up in value. I’m looking for a quick, no hassle sale so I can free up some space. "
$24,000 ($18,600USD)
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ationFlag=true
-50,000KM (30,000miles)
-RHD
-Touring
-Swapped to manual
-Engine milage unknown
$28,000 ($21,700USD)
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ationFlag=true
-82,000km (51,000 miles)
-LHD
-Base
-EGR, emissions, air pump removed
-aftermarket pulleys
-aftermatket sound system
The seller says: "This car can be sold for $30,000++ and many clean stock examples like this have recently sold at this price level. These cars are only going up in value. I’m looking for a quick, no hassle sale so I can free up some space. "
11-14-17, 08:26 AM
#592
That's actually a very steep asking price for an FD up here. There are so many RHDs selling for $10k-$15k CAD that it keeps LHD values low. Most people here just want an RX7 and don't care if it's LHD or RHD so paying twice the amount for a LHD one doesn't make much sense to them. There are some people who look for a good quality LHD FD but they are very rare. Canada is also a huge country with very few people (Cali has 1.5x the amount of people than Canada) so someone on the East coast isn't going to buy a LHD FD from the West coast and spend $2-$3k to have it shipped back if they can get a RHD one, in the same condition, a few hours away for half the price.
That FD has been listed for over two weeks now and still no takers. It's also listed in Alberta, which is one of the wealthiest province in Canada (pretty much the equivalent of California but without the warm weather). Third, it's listed in the fall, which is a tough time to sell sports cars since we have 6-8 months of winter coming up.
A fair price for that car, up here, at this time of year would be about $23k-$25k CAD for a slow sale ($18k-$19.5k USD) and $20k-$22k CAD for a quick sale ($16k-17k USD).
That FD has been listed for over two weeks now and still no takers. It's also listed in Alberta, which is one of the wealthiest province in Canada (pretty much the equivalent of California but without the warm weather). Third, it's listed in the fall, which is a tough time to sell sports cars since we have 6-8 months of winter coming up.
A fair price for that car, up here, at this time of year would be about $23k-$25k CAD for a slow sale ($18k-$19.5k USD) and $20k-$22k CAD for a quick sale ($16k-17k USD).
11-14-17, 09:15 AM
#593
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
That's actually a very steep asking price for an FD up here. There are so many RHDs selling for $10k-$15k CAD that it keeps LHD values low. Most people here just want an RX7 and don't care if it's LHD or RHD so paying twice the amount for a LHD one doesn't make much sense to them. There are some people who look for a good quality LHD FD but they are very rare. Canada is also a huge country with very few people (Cali has 1.5x the amount of people than Canada) so someone on the East coast isn't going to buy a LHD FD from the West coast and spend $2-$3k to have it shipped back if they can get a RHD one, in the same condition, a few hours away for half the price.
That FD has been listed for over two weeks now and still no takers. It's also listed in Alberta, which is one of the wealthiest province in Canada (pretty much the equivalent of California but without the warm weather). Third, it's listed in the fall, which is a tough time to sell sports cars since we have 6-8 months of winter coming up.
A fair price for that car, up here, at this time of year would be about $23k-$25k CAD for a slow sale ($18k-$19.5k USD) and $20k-$22k CAD for a quick sale ($16k-17k USD).
That FD has been listed for over two weeks now and still no takers. It's also listed in Alberta, which is one of the wealthiest province in Canada (pretty much the equivalent of California but without the warm weather). Third, it's listed in the fall, which is a tough time to sell sports cars since we have 6-8 months of winter coming up.
A fair price for that car, up here, at this time of year would be about $23k-$25k CAD for a slow sale ($18k-$19.5k USD) and $20k-$22k CAD for a quick sale ($16k-17k USD).
It's actually listed on this forum as well: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...leage-1120679/
AGAIN if it's a US car being sold here, IF it has emissions, IF it's clean (biggest if because very few with 30k miles are clean much less 50k) THEN it's a good deal at 24k
As it sits it's a hard sell at 24k much less 22k.
That said it's potentially much better deal than paying 40 or 50 for the ssm R2 LOL
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 11-14-17 at 10:08 AM.
11-14-17, 09:17 AM
#594
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
11-14-17, 09:22 AM
#595
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
Gem relisted again at 29k (slowly returning to earth): https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Mazda-...JZ5A55&vxp=mtr
11-14-17, 11:02 AM
#596
Edit-
Gem relisted again at 29k (slowly returning to earth): https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Mazda-RX-7-RX-7/172946882394?hash=item28446fff5a:g:JgQAAOSwFiJZ5A5 5&vxp=mtr
Last edited by Montego; 11-14-17 at 11:14 AM.
11-14-17, 12:11 PM
#597
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What do you guys think of the blog post about FD I just wrote???
Blog | ? Octane Auctions | Car Auction Website
Blog | ? Octane Auctions | Car Auction Website
11-14-17, 02:51 PM
#598
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
What do you guys think of the blog post about FD I just wrote???
Blog ? Octane Auctions Car Auction Website
Blog ? Octane Auctions Car Auction Website
Please list your other cars for sale here on the forum.
In my opinion values are up approx 20 percent. 35 might be a stretch.
I think we all agree that the FD is a special car and the values are moving higher.
Thanks for posting your blog and best of luck with all your cars
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 11-14-17 at 03:31 PM.
11-14-17, 03:15 PM
#600
Full Member
How does one location in the USA compare to another for the sale price and speediness of the sale?
For example, if you take a 60k mile car that is fairly clean, with mild to moderate (reversible and tasteful) mods, how would it fair east coast vs west? SoCal vs Washington state? East coast vs Midwest? Are most buyers significantly averse to buying afar and shipping?
Just curious as as I ended up buying mine in Toronto and having it shipped to Vancouver (BC). I did have a non-car guy family member to check it out to ensure the car matched the photos, but I didn't have a chance to see it myself.
For example, if you take a 60k mile car that is fairly clean, with mild to moderate (reversible and tasteful) mods, how would it fair east coast vs west? SoCal vs Washington state? East coast vs Midwest? Are most buyers significantly averse to buying afar and shipping?
Just curious as as I ended up buying mine in Toronto and having it shipped to Vancouver (BC). I did have a non-car guy family member to check it out to ensure the car matched the photos, but I didn't have a chance to see it myself.