Mr357

iTrader: (14)

Half of the front lip on my base model FD was lost under the previous owner, so I'm considering replacing it with one from an R1/2, but to be perfectly honest I don't like how it looks. It terms of protecting the bumper cover from rocks, and directing air into the engine bay, how effective is the R1/2 lip? I'll take functionality over aesthetics any day, but I'm a bit skeptical that the upgrade makes much of a difference.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I always thought that it's design was intended to minimize front lift at speed and not for cooling. Regardless, I think it's mostly a cosmetic choice and doubt there would be any measurable benefit to the 'R' lip over the Touring version...even the '99' spec for that matter. Install what you like.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

The R1 lip is so flimsy I don't see it really doing that much in an aerodynamic sense. I can see it helping duct air to the front brakes, not only do the R1's have that lip but they also have another duct that attaches to the bottom to help duct air. Most FD's I see with R1 lips don't seem to get that duct installed.

That said, I think design-wise it's the way it is as it mirrors the form of the stock rear spoiler.

I believe you can still get the stock "plain" lip or MAYBE find one used, it's a part that takes a lot of abuse.

Dale

bajaman

Yeah, that bigger lip is going to hit a lot more things than the stock base model lip. I too have toyed with the idea from time to time of changing over to the R1/R2 lip as I do like the looks of it.

Mr357

iTrader: (14)

Thanks for the info! I'll see if I can find a base/touring lip. Worst case scenario, I can get a brand new R1/2 one from Rotary Performance for ~$150.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Guys, Ray Crowe sells the touring lip for a like 12 bucks..... I'm exaggerating but you get the idea.

Also, Ray sells the R1 lip for around $135, I ordered one a while back

You can contact big Ray via email at Crowe.Ray@aol.com, as always no part #s required--- just describe what you need. I've done things like ask him for every copper crush washer for every banjo bolt on a stock car and he sent exactly what I needed.... they don't call him "Raymundo The Legend" for nuthin'

djseven

iTrader: (56)

I dont know how you guys roll around with the stock touring or base lip. It looks horrendous. The cars need a R1 or 99 Spec lip.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I'm not a fan of the R1 lip without a spoiler.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I does do something... if not producing actual downforce per se, by flowing less air under the car. I saw a marked difference lowing it 1" with a spacer as well.

Racing beat used to sell a less-pronounced fiberglass lip that you could paint body color. That might fit your taste. The touring lip isn't even a lip. Its a finish molding.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Because of the thread title I will provide some information that people getting a hit on this thread because of key words might be looking for.

---------------

Mazda's published aero figures for the 1991-1998 FD with R1/R2 Aero kit. (from Jack Yamaguchi RX-7 book)

Drag coefficient, Cd = 0.31
Frontal area (A), sq meters/sw feet= 1.79/19.26
Cd X A, sq meters/sq feet= 0.55/5.98
Lift coefficient, front, Clf= 0.04
Lift coefficient, rear, Clf= 0.01

3rd party (from Race Car Aerodynamics - Designing For Speed by Joseph Katz) Aero figures from wind tunnel testing (different air speeds means different #s than Mazda)

AutoSpeed - Aero Testing - Part 5

Aerodynamic Coefficients of (1993-)1995 Mazda RX-7

1993 RX-7 Base
Cd, Drag Coefficient = 0.29
Clf, Lift Coefficient Front = 0.16
Clr, Lift Coefficient Rear = 0.08

1993 RX-7 R1
Cd, Drag Coefficient = 0.31
Clf, Lift Coefficient Front = 0.10
Clr, Lift Coefficient Rear = 0.08

Note, when looking at these numbers realize Coefficient of Lift Front and Rear are tied to each other (you can really see this below with the 3 positions of the stock '99 wing) So, when the 1993 R1 front lip lowered the Clf it raised the Clr and then the stock rear "wing" (actually engineered to be a "floating spoiler") lowered the Clr back to 0.08.

This video explains how the stock "floating spoiler" works and why.

--------------

Mazda's published aero figures for the 1999-2002 FD with Aero kit. (from Jack Yamaguchi SAE article)

Drag coefficient, Cd = ?
Frontal area (A), sq meters/sw feet= ?
Cd X A, sq meters/sq feet= ?

Rear wing adjustable to 1.5, 10 and 14.5 degree settings.

Lift coefficient, front, Clf= 0.045 (with rear wing at 1 deg angle setting)
Lift coefficient, rear, Clf= 0.00 (with rear wing at 1 deg angle setting)

Lift coefficient, front, Clf= 0.047 (with rear wing at 5 deg angle setting)
Lift coefficient, rear, Clf= -0.025 (with rear wing at 5 deg angle setting)

Lift coefficient, front, Clf= 0.051 (with rear wing at 10 deg angle setting)
Lift coefficient, rear, Clf= -0.058 (with rear wing at 10 deg angle setting)

Lift coefficient, front, Clf= 0.053 (with rear wing at 14.5 deg angle setting)
Lift coefficient, rear, Clf= -0.075 (with rear wing at 14.5 deg angle setting)

Note, even the base position of the '99 wing is affecting Clr from the base bodies 0.08 Clr, so increasing Clf. If the '99 front lip was used with no wing or stock '93 wing the Clf would be lower.

mdp

Yes, both the rear spoiler and the R1/2 lip are not there to produce down force. Their function is to reduce drag and lift. They are not just cosmetic, from what I learned at one of the early Sevenstocks from one of our guest engineers from Japan, Mazda spent some time in the windtunnel and with CFD modeling to make sure their spoiler designs were also functional. In addition, there was a model study done at a university which demonstrated the drag reduction properties of the 3rd Gen rear spoiler (unfortunately, I can't find the link right now).

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Additionally the holes in the R1 lip have a function, which is to direct air through ducts in the R1 undertray side panels to the brakes.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

That is the video in my post, which also links to an article on wings versus spoilers.

eslai

I actually don't like the R1 lip--it ends up hanging off the front end like a beard. If the line carried through onto the sides and the rear, then it'd be cool. Without the front lip spoiler and also without the rear deck spoiler, you can see the car's purity of form, as designed.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Anyone have those part numbers for the r1 brake ducts?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

FD03-43-64XE and FD03-43-63XF

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Hard to find because they aren't in the 1st body section with the plastic undertray and they aren't in the 2nd body section with the various aero bits/spoilers.

They are in the chassis section with the brakes!

Now hold on, it gets.... complicated.

Right Side-
FD01-43-63XC
Alternate part? Add part? (FD01-43-63XE) for Normal suspension
Alternate part? Add part? (FD03-43-63XE) for Hard suspension
Plus FA01-50-054 "nut, clip" (needed or provided Qty?)
Plus ZA01-50-EAO "fastener" (needed or provided Qty?)
Plus 90720-6620 10mm bolt

Left Side-
FD01-43-64XC
Alternate part? Add part? (FD01-43-64XD) for Normal suspension
Alternate part? Add part? (FD03-43-64XD) for Hard suspension
Plus FA01-50-054 "nut, clip" 4x (needed or provided Qty?)
Plus ZA01-50-EAO "fastener" 2x (needed or provided Qty?)
Plus 90720-6620 10mm bolt

I have also seen FD01-43-63XF and FD01-43-64XE and FD03-43-64XF and FD03-43-63XE part numbers for Right and Left ducts respectively as newer part #s.

I think, but am not sure that you order the parts for Normal suspension to get the top of the duct and then order the parts for the Hard suspension to get the bottom of the duct, as from what I have seen of the base/touring cars they only have the top of the R1 duct as delivered.

On the other hand, the Hard suspension part number could include top and bottom of the duct and the Normal suspension part number could just include the top part of the duct...

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

The part numbers are for the complete panel for each side, with the duct attached. Last time we ordered a set, they were around $125 ea.

bajaman

Which part numbers, exactly, please? I've seen several noted.

Thanks!

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Spoke to Raymundo Crowe and Mazda has a '****-ton' of the touring lips in stock at 57 bones per side, so 114 for the pair and barely less than the R1 lip.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Is he a forum vendor?

adam c

iTrader: (2)

For me the looks of the R1 lip is a nice improvement. We all rant and rave about what a beautiful car the FD is. The R1 lip adds to that beauty. To me, the stock lip adds nothing.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

^Agreed. To some it may look a little dated, but it seemed pretty cutting-edge to me 25 years ago and added to the hardcore sports car image.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

current part numbers appear to be

Left FD03-43-64XE
Right FD03-43-63XF

I am sure Ray can verify that for.