Classic MotorWeek comparison: VR-4, Supra, 300ZX, RX-7
#1
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Classic MotorWeek comparison: VR-4, Supra, 300ZX, RX-7
This is bittersweet (MotorWeek correctly foresaw the cancellations of the Japanese sports cars in North America), but it's also a nice reminder of how much the original cars cost and how well they performed in stock form:
#4
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
... and everyone wants more power. This quick review reminds us of how far the tuning scene has come. I'm glad there is a lot more quality information out there and some great aftermarket support (I'd love for Mazda to step up with rotary car parts support the way Nissan did with the Skyline):
#5
Urban Combat Vet
iTrader: (16)
What??? Where is the "energy impact score" with the barrels of oil use figures? What about MPG? Where is the geeky guy telling me how comfortable the car is and how to use the seat adjusters? Oh... and how much for a hybrid version?
It's been a while. Enjoyed it.
It's been a while. Enjoyed it.
Last edited by Sgtblue; 05-30-17 at 06:59 AM.
#6
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (19)
Whats up with the panel fitment on the hood of that Supra? Did they forget to close the hood, or...?
Another thing I noticed, is the 3000GT was almost 10K more expensive than the RX-7, and it was even more expensive than the reigning king of 90's Japanese cars, the Supra.
Moment of silence for the poor saps that bought the Mits. If you've ever driven one, you know.
Another thing I noticed, is the 3000GT was almost 10K more expensive than the RX-7, and it was even more expensive than the reigning king of 90's Japanese cars, the Supra.
Moment of silence for the poor saps that bought the Mits. If you've ever driven one, you know.
#7
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
You can easily get into a cheap 3000GT or Stealth, for good reasons. It was my buddy's dream car as a kid, but even he admits they are rolling disasters.
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#8
Form > Function
iTrader: (108)
Great video.
I always loved this article talking about the heyday of the Japanese Supercars:
Seven Samurai: A look back at Japan?s warrior supercars | Driving
I always loved this article talking about the heyday of the Japanese Supercars:
Seven Samurai: A look back at Japan?s warrior supercars | Driving
#10
rotorhead
iTrader: (3)
There's a lot of VR-4 hate in this thread. I like them a lot. The fixed all the big problems by 1995 model year, much like the FD. There is a bit of wannabe Testarossa to it though.
Regarding the price, it is amazing how different Mitsubishi was back then. They had upmarket aspirations like Hyundai does today. Now Mitsubishi is Hyundai and Hyundai is Mitsubishi.
Last edited by arghx; 05-31-17 at 10:39 AM.
#11
Urban Combat Vet
iTrader: (16)
I did too. Liked the looks and interior. I actually seriously considered a low-mile Spyder that the local dealership got in...would have around been 96 or 97. That was probably even heavier than the normal VR4 ...and felt like it. But not why I didn't get it....they just wanted too much.
#12
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (19)
I'm not hating, and if that was the path to the Evolution, then I'm all for the 3000GT. I had Starion back in the day and had tons o fun in it, so I'm definitely not a Mits hater.
I just had a chance to trade cars at the track one day with a friend who has an insanely clean 3000GT and could not believe how bad the brakes were and how much it pushed through tight corners.
It's a car to hop on the freeway, set the CC at 80 and put the miles on. Like a Mercedes 500SL maybe. Super comfortable Grand Tourer, but no FD on a road course.
My point with the last line of my previous post was about resale value. If you bought a TT Supra in '94 you will have doubled your money by now. The Mits buyer loses 40k for his investment, if he's lucky and took care of the car.
I just had a chance to trade cars at the track one day with a friend who has an insanely clean 3000GT and could not believe how bad the brakes were and how much it pushed through tight corners.
It's a car to hop on the freeway, set the CC at 80 and put the miles on. Like a Mercedes 500SL maybe. Super comfortable Grand Tourer, but no FD on a road course.
My point with the last line of my previous post was about resale value. If you bought a TT Supra in '94 you will have doubled your money by now. The Mits buyer loses 40k for his investment, if he's lucky and took care of the car.
Last edited by Natey; 05-31-17 at 11:49 AM.
#13
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (33)
Mid-rear transverse?...Like the old school Ferrari's and the NSX heh I can live with that
Am I the only one that feel this way?
#14
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I apologize for repeating hearsay. One of my first experiences with Japanese supercars was a long, educational chat with a 3000GT owner who was passionate about his car. I'd like to drive all of the Japanese sports cars of the '90s at least once.
#15
rotorhead
iTrader: (3)
Remember that there was a base model Dodge version of that car with basically a minivan engine in it (single over head cam non turbo version). I don't know what the volumes were but I wouldn't be surprised if the 3000GT/Stealth in all its various trims (base/SOHC, SL which is still FWD but DOHC, and AWD twin turbo Vr-4) sold way way better than the FD and actually made Mitsubishi/Chrysler money.
#16
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (33)
Exactly why I dislike the Evo
I don't think there are any significant front end weight distribution difference between the Evo (transverse) and WRX (longitudinal)....I think they are both equally nose heavy...
But I'm maybe just old school and prefer longitudinal engine placement...especially in a performance car
But I'm maybe just old school and prefer longitudinal engine placement...especially in a performance car
#17
Eh
iTrader: (56)
I think what us old timers on the forum are reminded of here after watching these videos is "the seven cant lose"!
Its great to see how capable they were in stock form. Very few FD owners today will ever know what a joy they are to drive before you get out of control with the mods and kill the little bit of civility they came with.
Its great to see how capable they were in stock form. Very few FD owners today will ever know what a joy they are to drive before you get out of control with the mods and kill the little bit of civility they came with.
#18
rotorhead
iTrader: (3)
Exactly why I dislike the Evo
I don't think there are any significant front end weight distribution difference between the Evo (transverse) and WRX (longitudinal)....I think they are both equally nose heavy...
But I'm maybe just old school and prefer longitudinal engine placement...especially in a performance car
I don't think there are any significant front end weight distribution difference between the Evo (transverse) and WRX (longitudinal)....I think they are both equally nose heavy...
But I'm maybe just old school and prefer longitudinal engine placement...especially in a performance car
I think what us old timers on the forum are reminded of here after watching these videos is "the seven cant lose"!
Its great to see how capable they were in stock form. Very few FD owners today will ever know what a joy they are to drive before you get out of control with the mods and kill the little bit of civility they came with.
Its great to see how capable they were in stock form. Very few FD owners today will ever know what a joy they are to drive before you get out of control with the mods and kill the little bit of civility they came with.
#19
Rotary Motoring
iTrader: (9)
The NSX and the FD are sports cars.
The Supra, 300ZX and 3000GT are Grand Touring cars.
A Japanese test with the 20B Cosmo in there with the other GT cruisers and the Skyline GTR thrown in too would be cool.
In the tuner segment the Greddy 2nd gen Eclipse ('95+) would have been awesome. It is like the later Evo models, but with better double wishbone front suspension.
Those Eclipse have VERY high performance potential.
The Supra, 300ZX and 3000GT are Grand Touring cars.
A Japanese test with the 20B Cosmo in there with the other GT cruisers and the Skyline GTR thrown in too would be cool.
In the tuner segment the Greddy 2nd gen Eclipse ('95+) would have been awesome. It is like the later Evo models, but with better double wishbone front suspension.
Those Eclipse have VERY high performance potential.
#20
Rotary Motoring
iTrader: (9)
arghx
A flat 4 is a lot easier to package than a 60 degree V6
A flat 4 is a lot easier to package than a 60 degree V6
Notably, Audi did Subaru one further and balanced a straight 5 completely in front of the front axle centerline in their early Quattros.
Later when Audi "just" went to the 3cyl long V6 perched out front handling was greatly improved, but still pretty bad.
I guess I am saying it is not so much packaging as the **** handling that results from putting the engine way up front that stopped other manufacturers from doing longitudinal AWD drivetrains.
#21
Lacks Ample Funds
iTrader: (1)
Then why does Subaru screw it up so bad placing the entire engine well in front of the front axle centerline for crap handling?
Notably, Audi did Subaru one further and balanced a straight 5 completely in front of the front axle centerline in their early Quattros.
Later when Audi "just" went to the 3cyl long V6 perched out front handling was greatly improved, but still pretty bad.
I guess I am saying it is not so much packaging as the **** handling that results from putting the engine way up front that stopped other manufacturers from doing longitudinal AWD drivetrains.
Notably, Audi did Subaru one further and balanced a straight 5 completely in front of the front axle centerline in their early Quattros.
Later when Audi "just" went to the 3cyl long V6 perched out front handling was greatly improved, but still pretty bad.
I guess I am saying it is not so much packaging as the **** handling that results from putting the engine way up front that stopped other manufacturers from doing longitudinal AWD drivetrains.
You answered your own question. The AWD longitudinal drivetrain is the issue. Audis, Subarus, and VW had the front diff in damn near the center of the transmission. Nissan did it better with the VQ35 AWD variants and the GTR by putting the diff integral with the front sump and had a transfer case off the back of the transmission like a truck. I think the easiest explanation for the other makes is probably cost. It's probably cheaper to make it one unit, also the VW has a FWD longitudinal engine, similar to a Chrysler 300M or an Intrepid.
At least the engines are really easy to remove in that configuration.
#23
Moderator
iTrader: (25)
The evo is a brilliant chassis compared to respectable sportscars, and is especially impressive considering its derived from an ecobox.
In cases where the front diff is in the trans, I don't understand the transverse vs longitudinal argument. Audi and subaru are longitudinal, and place the engine in the front bumper. Tell me how a v8 hanging off the front axle is a performance improvement over transverse in an awd application? The tuning and engineering is the bigger factor than layout from how I see it.
Right. Worse yet, they are at that Hyundai level AND now a subsidiary of Nissan.
Turns out, "saving your way to a profit" doesn't work in the car industry. Its crazy that for the behemoth that Mitsubishi group is, they hardly give two ***** about the car company.
In cases where the front diff is in the trans, I don't understand the transverse vs longitudinal argument. Audi and subaru are longitudinal, and place the engine in the front bumper. Tell me how a v8 hanging off the front axle is a performance improvement over transverse in an awd application? The tuning and engineering is the bigger factor than layout from how I see it.
Turns out, "saving your way to a profit" doesn't work in the car industry. Its crazy that for the behemoth that Mitsubishi group is, they hardly give two ***** about the car company.
Last edited by Spirit-RE; 06-04-17 at 06:28 PM.
#25
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
Don't jump to conclusions on the 3000gt VR4. People think that the 3000gt VR4 is bad and unreliable because of idiots who don't take care of the car and mod them without a proper tune.... sound familiar?
But I have spoken to VR4Jon, his conclusion on the car is:
Not great on the track but on the street and on twisty mountains it starts to shine. Also this car was very ahead of its time in terms of tech, if you get a chance read on what tech it had I'm sure you will be surprised.
But I have spoken to VR4Jon, his conclusion on the car is:
Not great on the track but on the street and on twisty mountains it starts to shine. Also this car was very ahead of its time in terms of tech, if you get a chance read on what tech it had I'm sure you will be surprised.