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Highflow cat is an added consumable cost and you have to keep checking it to see when the SS matrix starts to sag and collapse. The reduced stink does make the car waay more liveable in the street/garage though.
For more reliable exhaust restriction one can put a plate in the last flange (between midpipe and catback). I recommend 1/4" stainless or thicker in my experience as thinner tends to get pushed into a cone by exhaust flow and heat over time. Can size resteiction with thin Copper plate and then make the final once you know the size to keep boost in check during coldest time you will operate car.
Putting restriction as far from turbos as possible helps keep spool great while still limiting total exhaust system flow.
Just to chime in, I think the "No AC" idea is subjective. I'm assuming the thought here is that the condenser in front of the rad would hamper cooling significantly. But I think that with a good radiator and proper ducting there's no issue. I'm not a Mr. super hardcore track guy, but I do like to take my car to track days and I've had no problems keeping the heat down even with AC. I push the car hard, it stays cool.
Now again, subjective. I've got a vmount, and ducting, but I'm also up in the PNW where the air temps rarely climb past the mid '90s. But I'm just saying I don't think throwing the AC out is necessarily a mandatory action.
It was kind of stated previously, but I wanted to raise the question more specifically to properly align my expectations. - Will it be a realistic to track the twins reliably with the following mods and not overheat?
- conservative tune @ 10psi with base mods (or less boost?)
- vented hood
- oil coolers
- v mount setup
- no cats or ac
Yes it can be done. You can try running the A/C if desired and remove if needed. Vented hood would be on the bottom of that list with regard to priority on cooling.
I'm honored that this epic quote came from my thread lol. It's very relevant because I hope to keep the car forever. I've been into this hobby long enough to know not to count what I spend on it over the next 10+ years as I build it. However, I've also been into the hobby long enough to know it's worth every penny.
I appreciate all the responses. I am looking to keep a full interior as this will be a street car that I take to the track not a track car that I drive on the street. Sounds like my expectations are reasonable if I end up running a stock twin setup for a while before I dive into a better single setup.
I always appreciate when people close out threads on forums so I'm coming back to close the loop. Ultimately, this info helped me be realistic about my decision and ownership strategy so I appreciate everyone who replied. Based on my budget and what I gathered from others' experiences, I narrowed it down to deciding between finding the nice well-kept street car vs getting a cheaper base chassis and making it a mildy prepped track rat with sufficient bells and whistles (doing it right). For myself, I ruled out the idea of getting a mediocre example and trying to do both goals as I think I would be frustrated. I came to the conclusion that tracking the FD would be my secondary idea/goal for owning the car after I did some soul searching. I realized that my primary goal was to have a really nice one and build it as OEM+ and enjoy every aspect of performance without actually putting the car on the track. Purchasing a gutted or track-prepped FD just didn't appeal to me and it kind of defeated what I admire about them personally. I concluded that the idea of having both a nice well-kept version that was track-ready was simply not in my budget.
Fact is, in 2021, tracking an FD is a serious uphill decision for a lot of reasons - the cooling issues, the cost of ownership/parts and finding one, in general, is now very tough on it's own (the hunt was stressful for me). For the 0-3 times I do track days a year (simply for fun), it really doesn't make sense for me to add that extra cost and shortened life of parts on the car. These are now officially "rare" cars and tracking a rare car is a serious financial decision. It would be cheaper and easier for me to track something else with less complexity and rarity. In the short term, I will be experimenting with tracking my 05 STI and may get a dedicated trailered beater track car (like a Miata) in the future. So my advice to others who want to bring an FD to the track would be to understand that these cars are not really track-ready to begin with, adding on the age of the car and ability to find them, you really need to be pursuing a special dream of tracking one or following a primary goal. It is possible to take a "street" FD on the track but I'm not sure if it's really sustainable idea, in the end, to track the car year after year in that format. Even if you can afford it (most probably cannot), the hassle of trouble and time is still a huge cost to be prepared for and dedicated to. In my opinion, these cars are still completely enjoyable without ever going on a track (although I bet it's quite an experience).
After many months of looking prior, I've had my FD since March and I'm absolutely loving this car. I already put in many hours of wrench time and I am just about wrapping up my "stage 1" of getting the basics sorted and putting some personal touches on the car. It's a 93 Touring with around 53k. I will be taking my time to choose the right parts and mod around the OEM+ theme. So far I feel that I definitely made the right decision and I'm stoked be officially be part of the community!
The previous owner of my '93 base modified the car for time attack. Running a stock FD on the track is a bad idea unless you aren't pushing it all.
I've taken her to a few track schools and some lapping days, but she's mostly retired from track work until I add more reliability and performance modifications. It's a good idea to have all the reliability mods and a really thorough shakedown (e.g., checking suspension and chassis components – these cars are nearly 30 years old and some of them have been driven hard) before going hard.
You really don't want something to break when you're going at high speed.
You've made a really good point. When FD's were 5-10 years old, bottom of the depreciation curve, it was a fine car for a track rat. Get one for $4000 with a blown engine, put a fresh engine and big brakes/good tires on, hit the track. That ship has sailed.
I think the FD shines as a track car but you really have to be comfortable with the higher risks and costs that putting it on a track will mean.
Looks like you're heading the right direction, keep it up and enjoy the new car!
I think in general, tracking is expensive. The FD may be getting old and more rare, but people track cars that are worth more and more expensive to maintain all the time.
It may be more expensive/ higher risk with regard to replacement than it used to be, but almost anyone getting into tracking their car more than a couple times a year needs to have quite a bit of funding dedicated to it. Or, own or be associated with a shop and do it as part of the business and advertising. Which still requires quite a bit of funds and sweat equity.
Great looking car.
I went through a similar thought exercises as you and I'm basically in the middle of the process you're beginning. So I'm biased but I think it's the most sensible approach. I'm just wrapping up my full undercarriage and brakes refresh project now and will be updating my build thread soon with those details.
I don't agree with the conclusion. Your beginning question two years ago, the Club's response, and ultimate conclusion is full of personal preference that I hope anyone who trips over this thread down the road takes with a grain of salt
Regardless, congrats and best of luck
Last edited by ZumSpeedRX-7; 07-09-21 at 09:24 AM.
Reason: Edited for posterity sake, taking out Stockholm syndrome bias
I don't agree with the conclusion. Your beginning question two years ago, the Club's response, and ultimate conclusion is full of personal preference that I hope anyone who trips over this thread down the road takes with a grain of salt
Regardless, congrats and best of luck
So I came back to reply and you edited your original comment, which originally was a bit different. I would love to check out your car sometime since I am in MA as well. I am not too far from Palmer.
Thanks and I appreciate it! and Yes, that's exactly what it is, a personal preference-based conclusion that may be helpful to someone else in the future. I don't quite understand you saying that you don't agree with the conclusion (it's my own conclusion and it DID in fact conclude this way). I think the many thoughtful responses helped me understand that it was possible to do what I was asking. However, over the two-year period, the FD market has changed dramatically and I also changed my own direction in how I wanted to enjoy an FD Rx-7. For myself, I believe that finding a way to get on a track other than the FD will ultimately be a less costly, less time-consuming and less stressful approach. I don't think these cars (or their parts) are getting any cheaper so the word "budget" in this thread will eventually become less and less relevant over time.
Great ride. Unfortunately it always seems to come down to the cars are cheap to get into and then require Porsche+ levels of budget moving forward. Most people either don't have the means, or cant/wont justify spending the supercar-ish money to run them. Here's to hoping you get what you want out of an awesome rig.
These cars are amazing track cars, almost unequaled, but I think in order to track them you have to want to track THIS car specifically. It's a lot of work. If you just want to go fast and have fun on track there are a lot of easier options. I'd go pick up a C5 or C6 Corvette Z06.
Great ride. Unfortunately it always seems to come down to the cars are cheap to get into and then require Porsche+ levels of budget moving forward. Most people either don't have the means, or cant/wont justify spending the supercar-ish money to run them. Here's to hoping you get what you want out of an awesome rig.
Currently not even cheap to get into so anyone purchasing an FD to build into a track car might want to have their head examined. If on the other hand you can find a built FD race car not a bad choice if you have a good shop supporting you which is rare for this car.
Originally Posted by ptrhahn
These cars are amazing track cars, almost unequaled, but I think in order to track them you have to want to track THIS car specifically. It's a lot of work. If you just want to go fast and have fun on track there are a lot of easier options. I'd go pick up a C5 or C6 Corvette Z06.
YEP, still a dime a dozen, faster, easier to drive, more importantly so much easier to maintain and stay on track etc...etc... However not nearly as fun to drive. For a fast and fun track car the C5 is a great choice.
These cars are amazing track cars, almost unequaled, but I think in order to track them you have to want to track THIS car specifically. It's a lot of work. If you just want to go fast and have fun on track there are a lot of easier options. I'd go pick up a C5 or C6 Corvette Z06.
When I bought my FD I wanted something I could take to the track and not worry too much about. I found my (bone stock, 145K mile) car for 6 grand in 2005 or so and it ran/passed smog fine. Those days are over with the crazy money that FDs are going for these days, with no end to the craziness in sight..
With that in mind I recently made the decision that it would cost and hurt too much to wreck my FD at the track, so we bought a new Miata RF to have fun in. It's been like night and day putting the Miata together for the track, too. Parts everywhere! . Swaybars for the MX-5? There are about a dozen choices easily available, and none of them cost an arm and a baby's leg. That ND2 Edelbrock supercharger kit will be ready soon, from what I hear.
The FD is going in for paint, then weekend cruise/garage queen duty.
So I came back to reply and you edited your original comment, which originally was a bit different.
You are right - my original response was calling this whole discussion out as the self-fulfilling prophecy that it is. If you or anyone else wants to track their FD - they will. Period. Full stop.
No one else's opinion is needed on a decision that you and only you can make for yourself on what you want to do with YOUR car.
This question has been asked and answered many times over the decades, and you yourself have been on a racetrack and know it doesn't take much to pass safety tech or that no one is making you drive faster than you want to.
If your question was what does it take to make a class winning FD3S track car - that would be different.
I have won best in class at Larz Anderson a few times, Boston Convention Center, and some other useless hardware on my shelves. But honestly, the very best car show or compliment over coffee on an immobile FD3S is worth less than my worst track day.
But by all means, Mazda definitely set out to build a sports car that looked good in a parking lot or going "really fast" on an on ramp
Hope to meet you soon - maybe I can bring you to the fun side in person
Last edited by ZumSpeedRX-7; 02-13-22 at 11:03 AM.
I have also struggled with the same dilemma when I got my FD a few years ago. I was very picky in my search for an FD and got very lucky with what I was able to find locally. Really, it all came down to the overall condition of the car. I came to the conclusion that I had landed on a pretty OEM+ car that had a very intact interior and was in a condition that was complete enough to make it something very clean and functional for street use specifically.
So thats the direction I went with the car.
I will be the first to admit that I absolutely adore a fully built track weapon FD that is purposely built to be nothing else but a race car.
And I have immense respect for those who build and race these cars on the track for that purpose alone.
In a perfect world, in my personal opinion, if I wanted to track an FD at this point, I would just get another one entirely, in much rougher condition and start from the ground up to build it out with the focus of just that. Functional track toy and nothing else.
There is alot of cost and complexity involved with this proposition. But I think this is the beauty of the RX7. It can easily excel as an iconic sports car, or a full-blown race car, depending on the direction you go with it.
And Rick, you should be very proud of what you have done with your car, I think it is something to envy for a lot of people here.
Not everyone has the knowledge, experience, finances, time or passion to build and utilize such a car.
And for those that do, your own example and build thread as well as many others on this site, is an invaluable resource.
From my own experience, some people just want to own and preserve a clean example of their childhood dream and that is enough for them.
Thank you for the compliment! I am just walking on the shoulders of the giants who have come before me (the Hahns, Flynns, Regans, dela Huertas, Mardikians, Daltons, and more) who were brave enough to jump into the deep end
My build is absolutely on the extreme end, and I wouldn't advise anyone to follow in my footsteps . Mr. Hahn and I talk often, and the dude's living in the fulcrum of the best of both worlds - he's your man on how it's done right
My opinion is by no means a full throated scream "be like me, do what I did!" I am also not trying to make anyone feel bad or have to justify not having any interest in taking their FD's on track. The majority of us fortunate few don't, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
My only qualm was with crowdsourcing an answer on a question that was full of personal preference, pointing out that if there is a will there's a way to literally anything you want to do in life.
There's not much you need to take your FD on track:
Common sense on your FD's condition (if it's broken beforehand, that's not the fault of taking it out on track);
good brake fluid and pads;
flushed coolant system and a keen eye on water temp;
newer, non-dry rotted tires that hold pressure
helmet rated for your Club or sanctioning body (hell, come to Massachusetts I'll lend you my helmet, harness, and HANS device!)
tight suspension components that don't exhibit excessive play
nothing lose around the cabin or anything that can get stuck under your pedals
open ears and a note book to keep track of as much as your experience,
the confidence to ask anyone anywhere around the track anything you want to know
and....
...honestly that is all you need
If you notice weaknesses in your system, stop your track day, go back to the drawing board and make upgrades as needed, rinse and repeat.
It's as simple (and cheap) as that
PM me, I'll send you my phone number and talk your ear off on why it's not as scary or unachievable as everyone is making it seem
I mean, look at this Outback wagon in the middle here - his car was wa(aaaaa)y out of it's life destiny, but just like that it's there! And the kid loved every minute of it (had his hand out with point bys the whole time, but still)
How can you look at your FD and think it can't be driven on a racetrack but somehow this wagon owner had the courage to?!
My dream has always been to take my Fd for a trackday. The car is almost ready fro the abuse a track will throw at it. Although the car is mint, I cannot fully enjoy the car without pushing the car a little on the track. I may not pish it as hard as i would push my 03 miata but i will still have a blast and drive home. I am going to start with a few autocross events to understand the car at it limits and then move to a track day. Brap on and enjoy your cars
My Advice- don't go widebody and keep a desire for the car to be "nice" if it wasn't at the beginning. I've spent about $2600 on widebody fenders which includes fitting the rears and have another $10k+ to go to get the car painted all over. Including other body mods and associated work I'll probably be over $15k with a goal to take it to the track when it's "done". Manage expectations and avoid scope creep.
I'd LOVE to go widebody. But I'm already fitted with two sets of track wheels and a set of street wheels. All three are near-ideal for current setup. So, you're talking buy the fenders, properly cut/fit/fab new liners, paint the whole car (its silver so...), and then buy three new sets of wheels. Yikes.
12-23-20, 02:00 PM
. Mr. Hahn and I talk often, and the dude's living in the fulcrum of the best of both worlds - he's your man on how it's done right 
