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Anyone dealt with a total loss? (USAA)

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Old 02-14-18, 11:56 AM
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Unhappy Anyone dealt with a total loss? (USAA)

A few weeks ago I was in an accident and my FD was deemed totaled. Everyone was uninjured luckily. One of the saddest days as a car guy.

Anyway, I've been in a little bit of a tight situation with USAA. My FD was a very clean white 1993 touring model with red interior and 75,000 miles. 420 whp, single turbo, V-Mount, rebuilt motor with only about 3k miles. Obviously the motor mods and things like that wont go into valuing the car with insurance, but just stating so we know the kind of build im talking about. I sent in all of the photos of the car to prove to them that it was a pristine example. Perfect white paint, clean and fresh looking interior, the whole 9 yards. They told me that they would be valuing it as a car in pristine condition. Their report even stated that mechanical, paint, interior, etc were all excellent.


USAA uses CCC Market Valuation Report, comparing to other "comparable" vehicles to value the total loss. Their were so many problems with the report.

First off, they had valued it as a 150,000 mile base model with no options.

Second, they valued it as an automatic transmission, which as we all know are significantly cheaper then manuals.

Third, of the 3 "comparable" listings, one was a 130,000 mile automatic, one was a 96,000 mile car in poor condition and the last car literally did not exist. I called the dealer where the car was listed and spoke to one of the sales people. I asked if they still had the car, giving them the stock #, VIN and other details from the CCC report. The salesman told me that their website had been hacked a few weeks ago and the hacker had listed over 6000 cars on their site that did not exist, all at much lower values than they were actually worth. He then confirmed that this listing was one of those non existent cars. To say the least, I was livid.

Their value report said it had a market value of $14,200. Obviously I was pissed. I was able to get them to change the mileage to the correct 75,000 miles for a new report along with the transmission and other options. I am now waiting for the second corrected report.

My worry is that it will still be grossly undervalued. We all know what a car like that is worth on the market today. Has anyone dealt with a similar issue to this and if so, were you able to get an outside insurance adjuster to value the car and dispute it with the insurance company with success?

Any tips would help so much. thanks guys in advance.
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Old 02-14-18, 12:11 PM
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Damn, my worse nightmare. Hopefully everything works out for you and they pay you out. I have Grundy insurance and have stated value at $40,000.
Old 02-14-18, 12:16 PM
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Find a list of comparables yourself and send to them. Heck, you can use the For Sale section here to get those.
Old 02-14-18, 12:16 PM
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Man. I REALLY feel for you.

I own(ed) a 2014 Audi Rs7 and was rear-ended by another driver 10 weeks ago. The damage to my car alone exceeded the entire accident coverage limit for the girl who hit me. So I had to file with my insurance company USAA. My car had about $25k in mods on top of the value of the factory car and the entire process has been nothing less than a nightmare. I understand entirely what you mean by being such a bad day for a car entheusiast to lose his/her car.

So, I have a couple of comments for you:
USAA doesn't actually do the valuation. They use a 3 party company, as most insurrance companies do. I think they are called CCC, though that doesn't much matter.
They are trying to determine "Actual Cash Value" of your car and this is essentially an equation based process. This is confounded by the rarity of the FD, mods etc. They will pick cars forsale locally (usually at dealerships) and then much like a home appraisal, they'll add and subtract values for differing conditions etc. IE if they compare an automatic transmission car, then they will adjust that value up by $xx since yours is manual. If they found a car with 10k miles, then they'd adjust the value down by $xx since yours has higher mileage.

You can and should ask to see their valuation report and you can argue the points, though it is hard.
There are 3 party companies out there who can help with this process and they'll take a percentage of the extra value they get. You have nothing to lose by use them, so do the best you can arguing and then consider engage someone like:
https://autoclaimspecialists.com/
This company was recommended to me by my local exotic car dealership, and by their preferred body shop (certified for Aston martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce Repair)

Once there is a basic understanding of the factory value, then you're going to have to go after the aftermarket parts. Receipts are your friend. Again, they are looking for "Actual Cash Value" IE, how much value does *that* part add to the value of YOUR car. in my case, my set of HRE wheels was consider to add significant value, but the $1000 I spent to custom smoke my tail lights added zero value. Again, if you were average joe standing on the car lot would you pay more for a car with custom painted lights.... most people would not, therefore the "ACV= $0. In my case where USAA perceived zero value for aftermarket, I bought factory replacements and replaced my aftermarket stuff before the car was hauled off. In other cases, their offer for the aftermarket parts was HIGHER than I could have sold them for, so I let them be scrapped with my car. <- Sadly, my HRE's fell into this bucket so they were hauled off.

They are going to argue with reiumbursement for anything over a year old... BUT, this is primarily intended for factory repairs. IE, a receipt for 3 year old alternator isn't going to cut it. back to average Joe buying a car doesn't care if the alternator is 3 years old. Aftermarket sway bars, carbon hood, aftermarket bumper, etc, etc should be a different answer.

I feel bad 'cause if your experience is half what mine has been you're going to be so disillusioned with the whole thing you'll reconsider owning another modified car. HOWEVER, with ALOT of patience and ALOT of time, I hope you can come out ahead as I ultimately will on my car.

*EDIT*
I just re-read your post and you should be thinking about the aftermarket part issue. I gather you may be thinking that you are going to pull aftermarket parts off. Please keep in mind they they are expecting a fully assembled car. So if they value at $14k and you're thinking "that's fine, I'll pull my good motor out and move on", just know that they aren't going to let that happen. They are going to expect there to be a motor in the car. This is true of everything wheels, tires, suspension, interior, etc, etc. Damaged or perfect, they expect it to be present. So, unless you have a heap of factory parts laying around to put back on the car, you should be pushing for valuation of your good parts. You are going to want to drive the valuation of the "Total loss" up as much as you can. You can always ask for the "buy back' price of the vehicle once you get a totaled value.

GL,
Chris

Last edited by carx7; 02-14-18 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 02-14-18, 12:31 PM
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What I had to do in similar situation for my FC was win by being a pain in their ***.

My Ex faxed pages and pages of receipts for Mazda parts from maintenance and aftermarket parts into the insurance companies fax machine tying it up for a good while and finally they relented and decided my TII was worth more than $2,500 or whatever a 160,000 mile TII Blue Books as.

Got it repaired instead of totaled.
Old 02-14-18, 12:34 PM
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I have, many years ago. USAA will listen if you present evidence as to the value in comparable stock cars, but you're never going to get the value of your mods out. That's what declared value policies are for.

Ask what the buy back is, and negotiate on that... that's the only way you'll get all the mods back, and you can go find a new car to re-install.

USAA let me pick a PFS cat-back off my wrecked car (after they refused to figure it into the payout value), but I had to replace it with the stock exhaust. When I visited the wrecking yard to get it, they literally brought it outside the gated area on a forklift, and dropped it in the mud and said "do what you need to, you have an hour."

Sorry man.
Old 02-14-18, 12:34 PM
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Sorry to hear about the loss

Somewhat related, I recently switched insurance carriers for the FD to Farmers Insurance last week now that its running again. What was interesting was, they asked the year, make, model and mileage (91,000) and my insurance rep replied, "OK the value we have is thirty-seven fifty". To which I replied scratching my head, wow, three thousand seven hundred fifty seems a bit low! And she laughed and said "no no no, thirty seven thousand, five hundred."

So, she never asked transmission type, options, etc and Farmers spit out $37,500. So I would go back to the carrier and have them walk you through how they came up with that number again.

And to everyone else, if you're not 100% sure how much your insurance carrier values your vehicle, probably worth a phone call.

Also somewhat related: Next year (at least for Farmers) for my 94, the car qualifies for their Collectible Auto Coverage which is significantly cheaper.
Old 02-14-18, 12:40 PM
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You have a highly modified car with traditional insurance coverage. Market value is going to be difficult because they’ll be very few cars with similar modifications, in a similar condition, in your part of the country, and which have changed owners recently.
Do your best to correct obvious things as you have, but ultimately not much else you can do imo. This is why more and more owners these days seek out agreed value policies.
Old 02-14-18, 12:46 PM
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You may want to really evaluate how bad the car is wrecked and if it COULD be fixed. If so, you may be better off not filing the claim and just using your own money to fix the car.

If you can do a lot of the work yourself, at least unbolting fenders and whatnot, you can save quite a bit. But, it depends on how bad the car is.

If you do claim the car you can buy it back from the insurance company with a branded title. Then you can have a parts car to build up a shell or whatever. A buddy of mine here did that, and while it's a good option it's a BIG JOB to do this. We're a good year into the project and finally getting close to starting the engine.

This also illustrates that a proper collector car policy is best for many of the FD's out there. It's hindsight, but there you go.

Regardless I hope things work out for you. Keep us posted!

Dale
Old 02-14-18, 01:55 PM
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They are going to give you the max blue book value for the car, if that.
if you didnt include in your insurance, expensive aftermarket parts, they wont even pay attention to you.
my wife works with an insurance company. I will ask exacly what they do..
sorry for your loss..
Old 02-14-18, 04:01 PM
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While there is merit to agreed value policies, my direct experience has differed with some of what I've read regarding coverage for aftermarket parts specifically with my USAA experience.
Example: When I told them I had "HRE XYZ with tires, x% tread" they came back and offered me MORE than it would cost anyone to purchase a similar setup on the used market. The wheels weren't the only thing that worked out that way: suspension, sways, exhaust, ECU tune and more.
In any event, it is a huge PITA and I feel for you.
Old 02-14-18, 04:45 PM
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As others have stated the only way to come out ahead is buying it back.

That said even if they only pay out 14k you should come out way ahead if you buy it back for say 5k.

Best of luck!
Old 02-14-18, 06:09 PM
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Yeah...it sucks, and definitely sorry to hear what you're going through. At the end of the day, they aren't "obligated" to pay you any more than book value. At the end of the day, there is a guy working diligently to pay you the MINIMUM possible, as his job depends on it. This is the role of insurance agents. As others have stated, your best bet is to find local listings of similar cars in your area. Mods mean NOTHING to an insurance company, as you noted...so don't factor that into your search, but rather things like mileage and overall condition. Plugging in the data as you've noted to us on the car and giving every possible benefit you get this:
https://www.kbb.com/mazda/rx-7/1993/...options=386952 false 386958 true 6269153 true&condition=excellent

So their offer is actually more than what you could/should expect.

But yeah...buy it back and fix it up. I had an FC that was deemed a total loss due to severe hail damage. I got $8,600 for it and bought it back for $1200, drove it for two more years (looked like hell) and traded it on a new Chevy pickup and got $5K for it.
Old 02-14-18, 07:27 PM
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I went through this about 8 months ago. See info on page 4 here. https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...1105189/page4/

i have a video and talk through the situation. Worked out ok for us at the end of the day.
Old 02-15-18, 10:27 AM
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I just went through this painful experience with USAA and it wasn't fun. They will rely on CCC and your argument's will not sway them. My resolution was to use an independent appraiser, St. Lucie Appraisal Co (see link below). I paid around $300, but the final settlement more than covered their cost. If you didn't insure a higher valued car, don't expect a settlement for a higher valued car (i.e. getting compensation for your mods), however a stock FD in good condition with 150k miles is probably going in the high teens to low twenties. This is what you should be trying to settle on. St. Lucie can help with that (they dealt directly with USAA). If you have a lot invested in mods, you may want to buy it back and part it out (if the salable items aren't damaged). I parted out an insurance total and got my money back (plus got a free engine). It's a pain though. Good luck

https://stlucieappraisal.net/total-l...-compensation/
Old 02-15-18, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TomU
I just went through this painful experience with USAA and it wasn't fun. They will rely on CCC and your argument's will not sway them. My resolution was to use an independent appraiser, St. Lucie Appraisal Co (see link below). I paid around $300, but the final settlement more than covered their cost. If you didn't insure a higher valued car, don't expect a settlement for a higher valued car (i.e. getting compensation for your mods), however a stock FD in good condition with 150k miles is probably going in the high teens to low twenties. This is what you should be trying to settle on. St. Lucie can help with that (they dealt directly with USAA). If you have a lot invested in mods, you may want to buy it back and part it out (if the salable items aren't damaged). I parted out an insurance total and got my money back (plus got a free engine). It's a pain though. Good luck

https://stlucieappraisal.net/total-l...-compensation/
actually the car has 75,000 miles but for some reason they valued it as a vehicle with 150,000 miles. Part of why I was so upset. Thanks for the input!
Old 02-16-18, 08:58 AM
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Went through this with State Farm a couple of years ago. First of all don’t be rude, condescending, or angry with the reps you deal with on the phone. You need them to help you get things changed and if you’re an ******* they will shut you down. Be firm and consistent but polite. It goes a long way.

Get a buy-back figure now and see if it’s negotiable. Get it agreed on up front because after you fight to raise the value of your car they won’t be lowering their buy-back figure. Buying back is the only way to get money out of your mods. Do you have possession of the car? If not then make sure it’s not being left open in the rain behind a shop or something.

Get clarity on the criteria they’re using on their comps. You already noticed flaws on mileage and autos. They found autos with me too and also required the comps to be at a dealer so make sure you understand the “rules” and then find your own comps and submit to them for review.

Lastly don't take the deal deal until you’re happy. Once again don’t be rude, but say you don’t feel the settlement is appropriate and keep asking to review your submitted info. The rep wants to close your case so they want you to take the first deal they offer.
Old 02-18-18, 08:27 AM
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Pretty scary to read about the USAA experiences as I used them to insure my old VR FD for many years. I totaled that car on track (NJMP) too back in 2012. Didn't even think of filing a claim due to the circumstances. Nowadays the majority of the badass/go-fast parts from that car made it over to my '95 BB FD, and I use American Collectors Insurance. There's a thread out there I started about them--- awesome rates and they absolutely will cover a major claim as a friend found out to their dismay which turned to elation when ACI made things right and the car was better than new.
Old 02-22-18, 09:01 AM
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I've seen enough of these threads about USAA not covering enough and started recently looking around as well. The American Collectors Insurance listed above seems to be a branch off of USAA though, is it actually better with handling the stated value? Seems to be just about the same price as USAA is charging me, but wondered how they certified the value we list.
Old 02-22-18, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Houstonderk
I've seen enough of these threads about USAA not covering enough and started recently looking around as well. The American Collectors Insurance listed above seems to be a branch off of USAA though, is it actually better with handling the stated value? Seems to be just about the same price as USAA is charging me, but wondered how they certified the value we list.
you have to follow a few rules and the coverage fee is based on your self declared value i value my fd at 25k incase of a total loss and i pay about 460 a year 5k miles limit in a year and it needs to be garage kept at all times
Old 02-23-18, 02:42 PM
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Damn, the whole garage kept thing got me I guess. Have a carport, but not enclosed.
Old 03-08-18, 01:44 PM
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To anyone who is curious about how this went, I have good news! After a month, hours and hours on the phone, a 5-page document and 4 separate appraisals, I was finally able to get the claim settled! The final valuation they valued the car was at is $23,500! That was before taxes, receipts and the extra 20% that I get from "replacement assistance". The final number ended up being $30,800! I'm now just waiting for the funds to be deposited.

It was a pain in the *** and took longer than I had hoped, but it got where I needed it.

Thanks again to anyone who chimed in with their advice and help.
Old 03-08-18, 07:07 PM
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Woow man. I am happy for you. You got a good price value for it compared to what most insurance do.
Old 03-13-18, 01:11 PM
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Can you expand on the "Taxes and receipts"? I am about to start the search for my FD and have USAA, just want to know if they're someone I should keep using.
Old 03-13-18, 01:41 PM
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Smile

Originally Posted by Phteven
Can you expand on the "Taxes and receipts"? I am about to start the search for my FD and have USAA, just want to know if they're someone I should keep using.
So the way that USAA goes about determining the value they will pay you is that they use CCCOne to create a market valuation report based on similar cars. From there they add the value of taxes (for me it was 5.12%) and you can send in receipts for upgrades done in the last year for reimbursement. If you got the "replacement assistance" included in your insurance plan, you then get an extra 20% added to the payout. On my final report, they valued my car at around $23,500 added the 5.12% taxes than the extra 20%, bringing the total payout to 29,400 (after removing my $500 deductible)

As far as insurance recommendations, if you qualify, I would recommend getting collectors car insurance or agreed value insurance. It is much cheaper and you have a guaranteed payout if an accident occurs. Unfortunately, I did not qualify for those plans since my car was not always garaged and the fact that I am under 25 years old. If you don't qualify for those plans, I would still recommend USAA as long as you are willing to put in some work if they mess up the valuation like I had. In the end, I actually ended up getting more in my settlement than I paid for the car. As long as you are aware of the possible issues going into it and are willing to fix them should they arise, I would still recommend USAA greatly. For me, they were the cheapest monthly rate by over $50/month.

For me, they had a lot of things wrong with the description of my car, saying that it was double the actual miles, automatic and a few other things. Because of this, they used really crappy cars as the 'comparables' and valued it at a very low cost. In order to fix the problem, I wrote a 5-page report about all of the things they did wrong in my valuation report as well as about 15 true comparable vehicles. I would recommend calling if you have any issues because using the communications centre on their website caused a lot of miscommunication because a different person would respond to many of the messages.

If you have any other questions or need help just let me know! I would be happy to help.



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