87turbo2

I know they flow very well, but thermal efficiency isn't that great. The end tanks and big inlets help with the great flow, but is that what also hanmpers the efficiency?
Plastic endtanks suck for oh, so many reasons.
Would having aluminum endtanks fabbed help, or is the IC core design just poor for thermal efficiency?
My friend has 3 Seris 6 ICs, and was wantingto use them in a custom IC set-up for a non-rotary motor and was thinking about welding the cores together and fabbing endtanks.
Good idea or bad idea (aside for using it on a piston motor )

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The stock IC is just fine for stock boost levels. The problem is, no one wants to run stock boost levels!

Basically, you need to select the correct IC for the correct application.

As for welding up the cores, sounds like a waste of time to me. There are decent cores out there which are not expensive. Quite a few members have used NPR's with great success.

87turbo2

Plastic tanks are what sucks for boost levels, which won't be an issue. Are the tanks what kills the efficiency? The core design itself looks fine?
NPRs are great, but wind up going for $200-250, plus you have to fab brackets, etc, For the same $250 the cores could be welded together, end tanks made, and most of the piping done!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The only problem with the plastic end tanks is that they can crack or separate. That's about it. The core just isn't large enough for high levels of boost. It can only be efficient for what it's designed to do. It's efficient for up to 10 PSI at whatever CFM the stock FD is flowing at that point. However, raising the boost over what it was designed for causes it to be "inefficient", however it was "efficient" before. This is why I don't like to say "one is more efficient of the other" unless you are talking about specific flow rates.

As far as welding them together, there are few places that do something similar (welding smaller cores together for a larger one). It should work, I'm just not sure how well.

87turbo2

Well, the core itself looks like a decent design, and since the endtanks are out of the qwuestion, it's the core that is the "core" of the discussion here. Is the core inherently a poor design for thermal transfer?
All sorts of people have had great success welding multiple cores together.

spurvo

87, I think you're missing Majik's point. The IC is designed to absorb heat from the intake air charge as it leaves the turbos, and radiate it passively to the atmosphere. To perform this task at the optimal level, there is a calculated amount of air that will pass through the core over a given period of time that will have a certain amount of potential heat loss by transferring this energy to the core walls. If you stuff more air through, then it won't cool off as much as it would if it were the designed amount as there isn't enough time (if the air is moving faster) or enough surface area (if the intake speed is the same, but more dense intake charge) as there was in the original design.

So, the stock core design draws the correct amount of heat out of the intake charge at 10 psi with stock intake and exhaust and ports. Change any of those three, and the amount of air passing through the IC will change, reducing the amount-of-heat-per-unit-time the IC can remove from the intake charge. Thus, the stocker is "inefficient" in that it removes less heat if you push the air flow up. It is "efficient" at stock air flow levels. I would suspect it is "over-efficient" at reduced flow levels, in that you could get the same cooling capacity with a smaller unit.

So, for your application, the right way to do it is to determine the amount of thermal exchange the stocker can tolerate at a given cubic feet per minute air flow. If you roughly multiply this by three, this would be roughly the amount of heat you could expect to remove from the intake charge at the same air flow. increase the airflow, and you need to have the equation that governs the airflow to heat transfer ratio.

Or just do it and measure the intake temps...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The core is a good design for the application (i.e. the flow characteristics of a stock FD). You'll need to do testing to see if the unit can provide the cooling you need for your application. I remember Kevin saying he went through several designs before selling the ASP/M2 IC's.

Here's an article about IC efficiency (not necessarily for cars, but general ICs):

EDIT: Thanks spurvo.

87turbo2

Very helpful description.
Looks like a 3 coer IC may be created after all. We'll see, I know he plans on running 25-30psi. This will be strictly FMIC, in front of everything else, perhaps a CO2 bar, and/or alky H2O set-up. The ICs are like $25 each, so why not?

rynberg

Hmmm....running 25-30 psi on an FD is at least a $10k price tag and he can't afford to just use a real IC?

87turbo2

As stated in the initial post its a non rotary setup .

Its a shelby charger. According to the guys on www.turbododge.com, you can run 20-30psi on those things.
So thanks for the help.

87turbo2

oops, td.com is down for the day, but they routinely run 25+ some as high as 34.

saxyman990

Yep. I own two of em (and 2 RX-7s). On my 86 Shelby Charger, I run just about 22psi. There are other intercoolers that are easier to fab up for this though. I run an NPR on mine.

Rob

87turbo2

you run a small or large NPR on your Charger? Any pix I can show my friend? He just likes the 3core idea to be different, and he already has the cores.

spurvo

any cahance you guys can take this to pm's?

saxyman990

No pics, sorry. I live in the stone age with my 35mm camera, and no scanner. I'll see if a friend can help me out though. My point was that welding three FD cores together is a lot of effort for very little gain. Especially when there are other cheap cores to be had that will do the same job (particularly in a case like a Charger, when you are not as limited on core size as you are with an FD). Just because you attach 3 IC's together, doesn't mean the core will be efficient at 3 times the boost. As was said earlier, it is all relevant to CFM and thermal efficiency. I advise you to go back and read those previous posts.


I don't see why, when I'm posting info and personal experience relevant to the question that he asked. If he wants personal info on my car, I will not post it here, I will go through PM's and E-mail (as I always do).


Check6,
Rob

spurvo

Sorry, I just meant if pics of Dodges were going to start flying around it might get out of hand.

Unless it's an E-body. Preferrably a Challenger (like that beltline crease!). Carry on

87turbo2

Ok, guy with the Charger posting now under his id! Just want to thank everyone for the info.
Never said 3 cores would flow 3x, I have just read great stuff about the flow characteristics of the Series 6 coolers, and was able to pick up 3 for less than $70!
Obviously, I'd like something to handle 25psi, and cool well. But, the most important factor is CHEAP! That is whole point of TD cars. We're very spoiled that way! If the 3 coolers aren't going to COOL, then they will be sold off!
Saxyman, PM details of your car to this userid, or email them to me directly
eric_chart@eudoramail.com

adam c

iTrader: (2)

I think that 4 would be better than 3, and I just happen to have one that I would sell ............