Raptor

Wish I could help here but my car is a JDM and I believe the harnesses are different.

Anybody else care to answer?

cover8

The harnesses are definitely different. The engine (em) harness is obviously different than the auto harness. Additionally, so are the dash and front harnesses.

For example, if you use the manual engine (recommended) harness you will need the manual ring harness as well. The end clips that go through the firewall to connect to the dash and front harness will NOT mate. So you have some choices here...you can keep the manual unadulterated but the ring harness (harness that connects the engine to the front and dash harness) will also have to be a manual too (what I did $260). Here is where it gets interesting (if I havent lost you yet!) the manual ring harness will now mate with the manual engine harness but it will still not mate with the clips on the auto dash and front harness (fock!). Ask me how I know....

So you say...'WTF!" Well, this is what I did, just my solution yours could better so dont stop thinking...I used the manual engine and ring harness...carefully clipped the plastic connectors from the auto ring harness (the ones that connect to the dash and front harness). Then I removed connectors from the maual ring harness that would have normally clipped to the manual dash and front harness. I then reterminated the functional wires from the auto clipped connectors to the manual ring wires. THE CONNECTIONS ARE NOT OBVIOUS! And the wires do not always match in color...I know this because I had Dave at KD reterminate the ring harness wires for me ($125).

When the harness got back, many wires were unterminated. For example, the dash harness clip for the auto is larger in both geometry and wire count...some of thos wires therfore will not be used/terminated. The x-05 connector, huge blue one on an auto, has nearly double the amount of wires (auto tranny functions) than the manual x-05.

I found this particular task a little over my capacity for patience (not to mention technical prowess) so I sent the harness to Dave @ KDR...my speedo, tach work great. My backup lights work great too...

I bypassed the starter interlock....and the neutral switch is not connected (my AWS is removed) Manual functions work just fine.

Lastly, I found the mechanical stuff easier and somewhat enjoyable....much, much simpler than the electrical transformation necessary to do the AT-MT swap and retain functionality. Overall, I did not find this conversion "easy" at all considering that I had to learn all by myself.

I blew a motor a few weeks back because of bad info on this forum...so please, please be careful.

Good luck!
Hope this helps...

For you fellas doing the conversion please save this thread...I will not post this again:

FROM DAVE AT KDR


Connector X-14 Auto trans side

Brown/white- for PRNDSL signal (unused)
Blue/Red- for PRNDSL signal (unused)
Yellow/Green- for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Lite Green/White- for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Red/Blue for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Yellow/Blue- 12v source for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Brn/Black- TO reverse lights (used)
White/yellow- to Hold Button input (unused)
Blue/White- Cruise and Data Link Connector (unused)
Lite Green/Red- Stop Light Switch Input(unused)
Green/black- Speedo input(used)
Blue- Speedo input(used)

The rest listed are the mix of auto and manual harness that work together

blue- 2nd gear switch (unused)
white- 1st gear switch (unused)
blue/green- neutral switch (unused)
yellow- electrical load input signal (used)
Brn-Yellow fuel thermo sensor (used)
Black/red-water thermo switch (used)
Yellow/white -temp gauge (used)
Green-speedo input (used)
Orange- speedo input (used)
Black-ground for cluster needs to be grounded
yellow/red-reverse light power(used)
green/yellow- reverse light out(used)
lite/green-neutral switch (not used)

Connector x-05 (large blue auto side)

Black/blue-ground (used)
Blue-shift solenoid 3 (not used)
Brown-shift solenoid 4 (not used)
Yellow- shift solenoid 5 (not used)
Green-shift solenoid 6 (not used)
Yellow/red-shift solenoid #1 (not used)
Black(thin) water thermoswitch for auto (not used)
black/green-cooalnt fan module input (used)
white/blue-coolant fan module (used)
the following five wire colors are all inputs for the auto trans so they are not used
Grren/white
Green/red
Green/yellow
Red/white
Blue/green
Brn/White-Map sensor (used)
Black/lite green- Map sensor (used)
Heavy gauge black-ground (needs to be grounded)

the other wires come from the manual side small blue connector

black/blue-air pump relay(used)
yellow-first gear (not used)
red-2nd gear (not used)
Brown-neutral switch (not used)

Raptor

Cover8, thanks a million for the info. Maybe I'm just being stupid here but I assume you did use a manual tranny computer and not the auto one.

I can't understand why I've heard more than one person say they just used the auto harness with a manual CPU and had no problems once bypassing the nuetral safety switch. Then again it was always, "I helped a friend ... and you can't be too sure of the actual year car either. Hmmm......

I'm more inclined to believe what you said by looking at the schematics I have. I kind of hope its not as difficult as you say because it might be one long summer without my car if so. I'd probably break down and just replace all the harnesses from a wrecked FD instead of trying to splice a bunch of wires. I'm not good enough to have confidence in that not to mention not having the time or the right schematics. I'm looking at the US model service manual and I have a JDM FD3S. Although most parts are the same, there are also a lot of differences. I know the harnesses are but by how much, I don't know because the emission and saftey laws are different here.

I'll post something once I get it sorted out and the car back on the road in the next week or so.

cover8

Dont let my evaluation of the "difficulty" intimidate you...you likely have much more applicable ability where I do not.

I keep hearing how simple the conversion is and to me clearly, it is not so simple. But that is my opinion...from the doing the work myself.

Yes, I did use the manual ecu...now I am using a Power FC. Btw, me blowing my motor wasnt due anything to do with the swap. I wrongly terminated the ignition harness (I put the white blue then black instead of white black then blue...ouch!)

Good Luck!

Raptor

Dont you just hate when you spend so much time accumulating all the stuff, do a bunch of research and breeze through 95% of the job and the last 5% is the real show stopper. Why is it that the last 5% of the work always takes 95% of the effort.

Thanks again for all your advice. I'm sure with what you provided, I should be able to get to 98% before I hit a major snag

cover8

You know exactly how if feel...absolute frustration. But I remember from the Movie "From Earth to the Moon" when the project manager of Apollo mentioned to a noephyte engineer regarding the lunar capsule validation: "Even if you do 99.9% of the project correctly that still leaves 1,000 parts that can go wrong." A sobering statement about the immense technical task of the moon mission and a reinforcement in the importance of detail.

I screwed up, plain and simple and paid dearly. But I have done all of the work on my seven by myself...the whole car except the body panels. Even though the rebuild will cost me $765 shipped...I am still way ahead if I had to pay someone else to do the work. Not to mention the amount I have learned about my car and using tools.

By next weekend, I will have built a 350rwhp machine...one that I own and dont pay on...looks so beautiful. I am very proud of my FD.

Good Luck!

COsborne

wow, invaluable information! I am paying for everything I want to do the swap on a wrecked fd so I think I'll grab the harnesses. Thanks for letting me know I need to do that.

Raptor

Last night while I was preparing for the swap I decided to see if the Manual CPU would mate with the Auto CPU and it did. All the connectors hooked right up and the car started. I thought everything was great until I revved up the motor and it wanted to stall at 2000 RPM. I could get it into drive and reverse and it would run just fine.

Any idea what would cause the motor to want to stall at 2000 RPM? It was lie the ignition was being cut so it didn't appear to be a timing issue.

I don't know if this is peculiar to the JDM or not but the wiring between the Auto and Manual (at least for the connectors) seem to be the same. I do have a Greddy emanage wired into my system but not sure if that really matters.

I'll be in the garage tomorrow starting (and hopefully finishing) the swap. Wish me luck.

Raptor

OMFG! The last few days have been hell. Tranny in and out 5 etimes. I can do it in under one hour now (the good news) but I can't figure out whats wrong with the install.

I get everything in plae and bolted up but when I push in the clutch, the springs (leaf springs?) on the pressure plate that the throw out bearing pulls on hits the pivot point on the clutch fork and grinds material away. I checked three times and verified that the clutch, pressure plate, clutch fork and snap ring are installed correctly and they were. I thought maybe it was the lightened fly wheel and counter weight (AT) giving me a problem but the deck height was the same as the stock MT flywheel. I even bolted up a stock fly wheel and had the same problem. Tranny is out again and I think maybe the problem is the woodruf key on the flywheel. It appears that the flywheel was too far aft so the throw out bearing would pull the PP springs into the clutch arm pivot and I would feel and hear the grinding when I pushed in the clutch. I also noticed that the clutch fork cup was pretty far forward and the push rod from the slave cylinder would pop out spilling fluid becasue it was at the end of its throw. The back of the throw out bearing would actually hit against the four bolts securing the front flange (??) that the throwout bearing slides on.

My guess is that the woodruf key was installed wrong from the factory because when I took it out it after removing the AT counter balance, it had a lot of damage on it. My question is, could installing the woodruf key cause the flywheel to not seat properly and cause the flywheel to be too far aft? This would explain why the PP was grinding against the clutch fork and why the slave cylinder push rod was at the end of its throw. The clutch fork couldn't pull it back any further. And no, the clutch fork is not bent or damaged.

Any body else ever seen/heard anything like this before? I'll know if my suspicions are right tomorrow or if I will be pulling the tranny again and buying a Celica Supra instead. And this was supposed to be the easy part ....

Jodeny

iTrader: (3)

http://www.jrx7.com/auto5speedswap.htm

John

COsborne

Im still waiting on the clutch and pressure plate but I do have a lightened flywheel if you want a picture of it. Maybe the insert on the flywheel was machined? Ive heard of that causing problems

Raptor

Figured out my problem. I had two pressure plates made by the same manufacturer (DK). I was trying to use the new one which was actually designed for a metal 3 puck clutch. I was installing a stock disk. The racing PP is thicker to compensate for the thinner disk. This, added to the extra thickness of the stock clutch, made the fingers (springs on the PP) flex back too far which interfered with the clutch fork pivot and had the back of the clutch fork hitting the back side of the PP.

All is well with the clutch now. Next project is the wiring. I'm not sure if I want to use the auto harness or tackle installing the manual harness. I think I'll try auto harness first and see how far I get. More to come ....

COsborne

if you need help I have a manual and auto harness sitting in the garage since I'm going with a haltech. I'd be glad to check out where wires go.

cover8

Raptor:

Definitely try using the auto harness first.

Raptor

Its 99% done guys. I used the Auto harness and just hooked it into the new manual tranny computer. I plugged in the speedo switch (no mod required) and jumpered the nuetral safety switch (connected the largest two wires in the plug going to the tranny).

At first the car would start but wouldn't run past 2000 RPM. I took off the emanage fuel control system I had and discovered very shoddy wiring. A wire (to the map sensor?) had disconnected and a few connections were very suspect. I reconnected my stock wires and bam .... fired right up and runs great. The only adjustment now is to increase the idle just a hair.

I say 99% done because I can start the engine with out depressing the clutch (no problem) and I need to hook up the reverse lights. I thought I had it when I connected a plug from the Auto harnes into a connector from the Manual tranny but it didn't do anything as far as i can tell. I'll break out the multimeter this weekend and do some wire tracing. I have a JDM car and US wiring diagrams so I believe there are some differences. Some obvious ones are no air bag, no security system, no cruise control and no Bose radio and of course all the relays and connectors are going the opposite direction.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to get this done. Would I do it again? Yes and no. I would have the conversion done but would pay somone to do it. If I didn't have the clutch problems I outlined above then I would say no problem, a relatively straight forward conversion (but still a lot of work) and I would do it myself. Unfortunately you cant predict these things.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll let you know if something strange comes up.

Raptor