cover8

Since I plan to run around 350rwhp, it is important that the every critical part is upgraded for increased performance. Not everyones goal is the same therefore their cost/experience will not be the same. Personally, the conversion has cost me alot since I have been GANKED by many on this forum. But hell, someone may be lucky and have a salvage FD next door w/ a retired mechanic from Pettit and a dyno in his garage....but I also have a Brooklyn bridge for sale.

My car is highly modified so using substandard equipment is futile.

Sure it can be done much cheaper, but for my needs and goals for performance/longevity/reliability those were my costs.

Hell, I am even in the process of rebuilding my diff so what happened to vosko does not happen to me.

"Do it right, do it once!"

As far as the attack on my composition abilities, I really dont spend alot of time proofreading informal posts on an internet site. You dont want to go there. Search under my username is check out some of my more "formal" and very technical posts.

COsborne

Well I got what I wanted

Cihuuy

Im goin to K.L. during the weekend and was planning to look for 2nd hand parts... but i would rather get the clutch and the flywhell new!

ok... this is for the not so bright people like me... does any1 have the parts number of all d list stated above... and is there any link that you guys can recommend??

ejmack1 & Cover8: it's definitely interesting how u guys have different solutions to this swap... we appreciate you both for sharing...tanx for the info!!!

cover8

My overall opinion looking back:

If you are buying an FD then get a manual! Unless the car price makes close to $3k in conversion cost worthwhile.

Evaluate your goals for performance and your budget. The auto is still a killer car...if I had to do it over again, I would have simply sold it and put it towards a manual FD.

But $1000 for a conversion is BULLSHIT (possible but highly unlikely) and is not the norm. How do you change a clutch, buy a new one and still keep the overall conversion price under 1k? Sounds like ENRON math to me!

Did I mention purchasing a torque wrench? $100

Hopefully, your used tranny will have a clutch engagement collar...$100

Cihuuy

tanx cover8... where i live, it will only cost me less than $600... wiv labor!!!

Theres a great workshop here, where they sell choped half FD3S exported directly from Japan... Guess how much??? $1800!!!!! just imagine, from bumper to midsection, including engine, turbo, trans... ect...

A couple of months ago, there was an half chop pink
RE-Amemiya fully modified... but some1 got if first...

Brian_93

I did my swap for about 1500 bucks, but thats with my and my dad doing the labor. You just have to look around and find the best deals you can, lucky I know alot of friends that were parting out there's when I was doing my conversion.

ejmack1

350 New Clutch - 150 Old clutch(sold) = 200 for new clutch

Around 1K is possible, sorry you do not believe it, but seeing you probably had your tranny and pressure plate polished along with that engine bay.... i coudl see the higher price that you are seemingly thinking it costs....

JACKASS....

Ibnso

Finishing up mine tonight (hopefully hehe). Found a forum member not to far away that had a car to part out and got the drive train from him for $2800 including a 10k mile ported engine, tranny, drive shaft, pedals, wiring harness, stock ecu and all engine accesories, I just had to go pick it up and help pull it hehe. Got companion flange for $50 off the forum (from cover8 actually). Momo shift **** for $76 from rx7store and B&M short shifter though didnt need to buy it for the conversion as it came with the stock shifter. Clutch that came with motor and tranny is fairly new, probably put on when motor was done. Another couple hundred bucks in miscelaneous gaskets and torque wrench.

Figure if I sold my engine (had good compression when I pulled it) and the AT tranny I could probably recoupe 2kish so about 1kish for the conversion. Alot has to do with luck and timing. Reason I did the conversion is I ran across my auto FD for 5k from a friend of a friend that owns a used car lot that was hurting for xmas money hehe. Figure 5k for car and 1.5k for conversion and I think I made out pretty well myself.

Oh and I didnt bother with the gauge cluster. Thought of doing the wiring harness mod for the clutch and starter but figured it wasnt much more work to switch it out since I had it sitting there.

Sam

Raptor

Does the 5 speed bolt up to the rear of the automatic engine block? The part numbers are different between an automatic rear plate and a manual. So are the part numbers for the eccentric shaft, counter balance water pump and housing etc. and I also heard that the bolt pattern is different. Any truth to this?

skunks

ejmack1: How do you drop a tranny with/on only jackstands in 30 mins? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

COsborne

I put a transmission back in my FC last night in a little over 30 minutes

skunks

got a write up on how to do it so quickly? I might need to drop one soon...

COsborne

I'd like more info on the front counter balances. Are they the same? They look the same but the 88-89 counter balances look the same as well and I know for a fact that those years vary. All the parts I have are from 93.

COsborne

just to clarify - Ive read that the front "balance weight" as its referred to in the FSM (behind the front cover) needs to be replaced with the change from the flex plate/balance to the flywheel. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me... Why would that balance be different from engine to engine? I need to know the answer to this for SURE

Raptor

I checked the parts book (1993 FD3S) and the part numbers between the front CB for an auto and a manual are different. I've heard more than one person/source say that you can just install a lightweight flywheel and the rear CB from an auto to the flywheel and you should be OK. You might call Atkins Rotary or another shop that has experince in this and make sure first. Please post what ever response you get from them for the rest of us so we can get the facts straight. I'm not sure if you can believe everything you see posted here.

I'll be doing my tranny swap next week so I should have a better idea then.

Thanks,

Raptor

COsborne

yeah Ive gotten screwed by people not knowing what theyre talking about on here...

It seems like everyone agrees that you can use the auto balance

cartervs

BrianHinsonSupercars can answer your questions, as well as access tp conversion parts. Hes is a great guy to do bussiness with. Carter

COsborne

I bought a lightened flywheel no need to worry about it now

Raptor

Its funny how people argue about how much the AT to MT swap will cost when it will be very different for each person depending on what you change, where you get your items and for how much. Here's what I was able to get for less than $1600 which included shipping, then I'll tell you how I did it;

5 Spd Tranny - used
Quick Shift kit - new
MT Eng wiring harness - used
LSD - used
Center console - used
MT instrument cluster - used
Knight Sports modified (re-chipped) MT CPU - used
Clutch and Brake padals - used
Light Weight Flywheel - new
Clutch - new
pressure plate - almost new
Diff Seals, Rear Eng and tranny Seal - new
Throwout bearing, collar, pilot bearing - new
Assorted hardware - new and used
Redline gear oil - new (obviously)
Clutch master cyl - new
Slave cyl (and spare clutch cyl) and all piping - used
Steel braided clutch line - new
MT starter - used
Propeller (drive) shaft - used

I know a lot of this stuff isn't even required so I could have done it for half the price I payed. In fact I saw one guy selling just about everything I have listed above including a PPF but no CPU or wire harness for around $400. I was already commited to what I bought so I didn't jump on that deal.

Here's how I did it; I live in Japan. A good 25% of the cost is due to shipping. I shopped on Yahoo Japan Auction and got most items used and a few items new (flywheel and shift kit) for much less than dealer. A few items I ordered directly from the dealer.

Now I don't care too much what this costs becasue I look at it two ways, first I got my car ('93 JDM FD3S with less than 40K miles in perfect condition and new paint) for less than $6000. Second, I like working on the FD and I like a challenge so it is also a great hobby and a good learning experience. I can also sell what I took off and recover a good portion of what I spent.

Be patient, shop around and be creative. You'll be surprised at what great deals there are to be had out there.

Raptor

COsborne

There seems to be a lot of debate on the harness issue... what harnesses have to be changed and can you just add the additional wires or omit the parts that work based on the neutral switch?

Raptor

Wish I could help here but my car is a JDM and I believe the harnesses are different.

Anybody else care to answer?

cover8

The harnesses are definitely different. The engine (em) harness is obviously different than the auto harness. Additionally, so are the dash and front harnesses.

For example, if you use the manual engine (recommended) harness you will need the manual ring harness as well. The end clips that go through the firewall to connect to the dash and front harness will NOT mate. So you have some choices here...you can keep the manual unadulterated but the ring harness (harness that connects the engine to the front and dash harness) will also have to be a manual too (what I did $260). Here is where it gets interesting (if I havent lost you yet!) the manual ring harness will now mate with the manual engine harness but it will still not mate with the clips on the auto dash and front harness (fock!). Ask me how I know....

So you say...'WTF!" Well, this is what I did, just my solution yours could better so dont stop thinking...I used the manual engine and ring harness...carefully clipped the plastic connectors from the auto ring harness (the ones that connect to the dash and front harness). Then I removed connectors from the maual ring harness that would have normally clipped to the manual dash and front harness. I then reterminated the functional wires from the auto clipped connectors to the manual ring wires. THE CONNECTIONS ARE NOT OBVIOUS! And the wires do not always match in color...I know this because I had Dave at KD reterminate the ring harness wires for me ($125).

When the harness got back, many wires were unterminated. For example, the dash harness clip for the auto is larger in both geometry and wire count...some of thos wires therfore will not be used/terminated. The x-05 connector, huge blue one on an auto, has nearly double the amount of wires (auto tranny functions) than the manual x-05.

I found this particular task a little over my capacity for patience (not to mention technical prowess) so I sent the harness to Dave @ KDR...my speedo, tach work great. My backup lights work great too...

I bypassed the starter interlock....and the neutral switch is not connected (my AWS is removed) Manual functions work just fine.

Lastly, I found the mechanical stuff easier and somewhat enjoyable....much, much simpler than the electrical transformation necessary to do the AT-MT swap and retain functionality. Overall, I did not find this conversion "easy" at all considering that I had to learn all by myself.

I blew a motor a few weeks back because of bad info on this forum...so please, please be careful.

Good luck!
Hope this helps...

For you fellas doing the conversion please save this thread...I will not post this again:

FROM DAVE AT KDR


Connector X-14 Auto trans side

Brown/white- for PRNDSL signal (unused)
Blue/Red- for PRNDSL signal (unused)
Yellow/Green- for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Lite Green/White- for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Red/Blue for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Yellow/Blue- 12v source for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Brn/Black- TO reverse lights (used)
White/yellow- to Hold Button input (unused)
Blue/White- Cruise and Data Link Connector (unused)
Lite Green/Red- Stop Light Switch Input(unused)
Green/black- Speedo input(used)
Blue- Speedo input(used)

The rest listed are the mix of auto and manual harness that work together

blue- 2nd gear switch (unused)
white- 1st gear switch (unused)
blue/green- neutral switch (unused)
yellow- electrical load input signal (used)
Brn-Yellow fuel thermo sensor (used)
Black/red-water thermo switch (used)
Yellow/white -temp gauge (used)
Green-speedo input (used)
Orange- speedo input (used)
Black-ground for cluster needs to be grounded
yellow/red-reverse light power(used)
green/yellow- reverse light out(used)
lite/green-neutral switch (not used)

Connector x-05 (large blue auto side)

Black/blue-ground (used)
Blue-shift solenoid 3 (not used)
Brown-shift solenoid 4 (not used)
Yellow- shift solenoid 5 (not used)
Green-shift solenoid 6 (not used)
Yellow/red-shift solenoid #1 (not used)
Black(thin) water thermoswitch for auto (not used)
black/green-cooalnt fan module input (used)
white/blue-coolant fan module (used)
the following five wire colors are all inputs for the auto trans so they are not used
Grren/white
Green/red
Green/yellow
Red/white
Blue/green
Brn/White-Map sensor (used)
Black/lite green- Map sensor (used)
Heavy gauge black-ground (needs to be grounded)

the other wires come from the manual side small blue connector

black/blue-air pump relay(used)
yellow-first gear (not used)
red-2nd gear (not used)
Brown-neutral switch (not used)

Raptor

Cover8, thanks a million for the info. Maybe I'm just being stupid here but I assume you did use a manual tranny computer and not the auto one.

I can't understand why I've heard more than one person say they just used the auto harness with a manual CPU and had no problems once bypassing the nuetral safety switch. Then again it was always, "I helped a friend ... and you can't be too sure of the actual year car either. Hmmm......

I'm more inclined to believe what you said by looking at the schematics I have. I kind of hope its not as difficult as you say because it might be one long summer without my car if so. I'd probably break down and just replace all the harnesses from a wrecked FD instead of trying to splice a bunch of wires. I'm not good enough to have confidence in that not to mention not having the time or the right schematics. I'm looking at the US model service manual and I have a JDM FD3S. Although most parts are the same, there are also a lot of differences. I know the harnesses are but by how much, I don't know because the emission and saftey laws are different here.

I'll post something once I get it sorted out and the car back on the road in the next week or so.

cover8

Dont let my evaluation of the "difficulty" intimidate you...you likely have much more applicable ability where I do not.

I keep hearing how simple the conversion is and to me clearly, it is not so simple. But that is my opinion...from the doing the work myself.

Yes, I did use the manual ecu...now I am using a Power FC. Btw, me blowing my motor wasnt due anything to do with the swap. I wrongly terminated the ignition harness (I put the white blue then black instead of white black then blue...ouch!)

Good Luck!

Raptor

Dont you just hate when you spend so much time accumulating all the stuff, do a bunch of research and breeze through 95% of the job and the last 5% is the real show stopper. Why is it that the last 5% of the work always takes 95% of the effort.

Thanks again for all your advice. I'm sure with what you provided, I should be able to get to 98% before I hit a major snag