JConn2299

From the September issue of Motor Trend:

"Will the next Miata be built on Mazda's upcoming new rotary sports-car platform? Chances are good it will, although the Miata
still will be piston engine-powered to curb costs. The Miata will get a heavy minor refreshening for '03 and may be built on a plaform shared with the RX-8 for the '06 model year. We've heard conflicting rumors on the future of the RX-7. It may continue as a separate model or might take form as a coupified-Miata powered by the RX-8's 250-hp rotary."

black99

please don't make the 4th gen seven look like a miata with a top.... That would suck, rx7's are tiny enough much less havingg them miata tiny..

RonKMiller

I agree.......but it would save them a shitload of money on tooling and still have a "new" model that would probably sell, and offer equal or higher performance numbers than the "old" RX7. And frankly, that's all they are interested in doing. If this rumor is true we're screwed. It's all about using existing platforms. Kansei Engineering: RIP.

rxrotary2_7

i dont like using existing platforms, but the original rx7 was built off the rx2's.....so we wouldnt have the 7 if it werent for them using the rx2's platform.
try these on for size.


another shot....


i would not be aginst it. would you honestly NOT buy one b/c of the platform?

BrianK

I'm more discouraged by the looks of the miata as opposed to the "platform".... The miata just doens't say sports car like the 3rd gen... It looks kinda dull, if you ask me. I mean, it was cool in 1990 - but cool in the MGB sense, not cool in the Ferrari sense.

There was an article a long time ago I saw in a car mag about a hardtop miata possibly being the next RX7 - that image keeps popping back into my head whever someone mentions this, and it's less than stellar. It looked exactly like how it sounds - like a Miata with a hatchback. blech

$.02

technonovice

Hmmm...I would take that comment with a grain of salt. If there was any real meat to that it would have not been refered to as a rumor.

RX794

My biggest concern with the next RX7 doesn't have to do with looks as so much as the motor that comes in it. See here's the deal, the Renesis motor that's coming in the RX8 or next RX7 isn't suitable for turbocharging in it's current form, why do you ask is that, well here's why. If you look at the way the exhaust ports are, they are configured sideways like the intake which #1, means that the exhaust pulses will not be able to directly spin a turbocharger, and will not spin a turbo as efficiently as the rotary is designed currently, #2 This would mean that Mazda will have to make 2 different housings,if they wanna build a Factory Renesis NA and turbo motor. This
adds 2 more questions to the fire, is Mazda intending to bring just a NA RX7, and also how many 3rd. gen, and HARDCORE drag racers are gonna be willing to buy a NA motor car without a turbocharger and be limited by the stock housings as far as a turbo is concerened. I know that me being the way I am I WILL NEVER BUY A 4TH. GEN. MAZDA RX7 UNLESS it comes factory issued with a TURBOCHARGER. Those are just my thoughts and my concerns. Being a racer, and a guy with a budget, I don't wanna be limited to make a car faster in the from that it comes in, I know if you have $ you'll probably be able to purchase direct port exhaust housings in the future if Mazda only brings the Renesis motor in NA form, but how many people are gonna wanna spend the $ or go to the trouble to do it, especially street cars. All I'm saying is that Mazda should build NA and Turboed 4th. gens, even if the turboed car can be ordered on a order only basis it will help the car to achieve supercar status like the 3rd. gen did when released, plus give all the HARDCORE guys a easier route to go with performance. I know that money is what makes car companies go round, but if they market the NA car right and sell it cheaper than the Turbo car it'll give reasoning to have both and still make $ as well as keep everyone happy.

rxrotary2_7

are you saying that the way the new exhaust ports are set up spent gasses do not exit the motor? i dont know if it will be as efficent in spooling the turbo up by the sounds of it, BUT, i never worked w/ one and i doubt that you or anyone else on this forum has. so who are we to say that it won't. it does make more sense the way we have them set up now, but, the intake ports also made sense before periphiral porting. now doesnt that make more sense? but yet we were given side intake ports on the 3rd gen, but i dont hear anyone complaining. i think we all have to wait and see what happens, and not be so critical of the next one to come out. hey the 86 wansnt turbocharged but the came out w/ one the following year, the 79 wasnt fi'ed but they did come out w/ the 13b fi in that body style afew years latter. lets just keep our fingers crossed.

black99

rxrotary2_7, if it was no bigger then or looked anything like a miata I would not buy one.. Like someone else said, does't exactly look like a seven.. Plus no room for tire in the back of one of those platforms.. I don't want my seven to have 13's on it...

ThirdGenRX7

then you had best never buy a first gen

RX794

rxrotary2_7, Look at the way the exhaust ports are in a Renesis motor, they don't exit directly outta the motor. This is one of the reasons why current rotaries spool turbos so efficiently, because it exits straight outta the motor and into the exhaust manifold. What you're trying to say that a exhaust pulse going out at a 90 degree angle will spool a turbo faster? Think about it, I don't think so. The exhaust ports don't work like the intake ones.

nrolfes1

Think about it, 255 N/A? Thats awesome for a rotary engine. Plus it will lower the complexity of the system. Remember that one of the major failing points of the 3rd gen was that dealer techs could not figure out the twin turbo system because there were not enough of them to "learn on", and no other car had such a system. The engine bay will now look more familiar and only the engine will be black box to a mechanic. The rotary's strength has always been power-to-weight ratio, and 255 w/o a turbo system from a keg-sized engine will be very light very fast. Especially if its in a Miata sized car. I think they can stretch the Miata platform enough to keep it from being too small.

RonKMiller

I guess I'm just lamenting the rather dismal way manufacturer's are introducing "new" vehicles. Witness the PT Cruiser, wildy successful, but it's just a junky little Neon with fancy sheet metal. You still can't buy one - get in line folks!
I swear I am about to go postal on Sport Utes as well. Now we're seeing smaller versions that are also selling like hot cakes. They are still underpowered gas pigs that are driven by older soccer moms who would not be caught dead in a mini-van anymore because they are so cliche. I have yet to see a sport ute with dirt on it! About the only new vehicle out there is the Jeep Liberty. OK, now I am just blathering....
What I want is a an RX7 that will kick the butt of all the Porches that now cost $80,000 to $100,000, has a turbo rotary with at least 350 hp that won't grenade itself at 70K miles, all wheel drive, looks to die for and ONLY costs $50,000. Oh, and I would like a convertible too, thank you very much, red in color.
I don't think this is too much to ask for.

DefBringer

The best solution is a simple, small single turbo coupled to the Renesis. Leave out the vacuum hoses and twin turbocharger nonsense and just keep it simple.

I'm sure Mazda can make the body of a Miata-platformed RX-7 look nice but just think how cramped the interior and engine bay will be. The 4th gen will HAVE to have more room on the inside without compromising balance and weight.

JConn2299

Some of you are thinking of the current Miata when trying to visualize a 4th Gen coupe built from it. Remember what the article said......the next generation Miata may built on the RX-8
platform. I can't say what the styling will look like, but think of the next RX-7 as a lighter, 2 door coupe version of the RX-8 and I think you'll be closer to the mark.

As far as forced induction for the Renesis goes, my bet would be that the first thing we'll see is a supercharger bolted on it by some aftermarket supplier. That would seem to be the cheapest and easiest route to a load of extra horsepower.

DefBringer

Superchargers...ugh.

You're spot on, though.

rxrotary2_7

no thats not what i was trying to say, nor did i say. go back and read it. i am on your side of that argument, but i am saying, doesnt a pp motor make much more sence than our motors? do you know what a pp motor is? if not then you will not understand my statement.

dgarvich

What is the problem with the Miata?

All you guys act like the Miata isn't a sports car in it's purest form, do you really think the RX-7 is that much of a better sports car?

If you do, you obviously don't do a lot of grassroots racing.

It is absolutely NOTHING for a bone stock Miata to romp a well modified RX-7 week in-week out.

It seems that everyone is hung up on the RX-7 making horsepower. Guess what, that doesn't constitute it to benig a sports car. That makes it a MUSCLE car. BIG difference here.

I would buy a Miata if it had a 250hp rotary in it. Hell, I would buy one just to put a 250hp rotary in it if it didn't demolish the car so badly and wasn't so difficult. It's a small, two seat rear wheel drive car. What more do you want?

I understand the arguments, but please oh please quit saying the Miata isn't a true sports car. It's race heritage may not be as rich as that of the RX-7, but evidently the American public has no interest in race heritage.

/rant

RX794

Yes I know what a PP motor is, but it doesn't look like it will ever be a production type motor for 2 reasons, 1.It's not a very streetable due to the fact that it produces power way up there, and 2.The seals in a PP motor don't last as long due to the way the seals pass through the intake port. So for a production car this type of motor will never happen.

rxrotary2_7

ok. so you se my point in te intake ports. those same seals on a exhaust port pass the same way. if the intake must make an angle coming in and still run the pants off a lot of cars an make great hp. how do we know that the exhast taking a turn is going to effect the turbo so significantly that there will NEVER be a turb model. i dont understand how you dont get what i am saying. i know that a pp is not the best streetability, and reliability, but do you understand what i am trying to say? the pp motor makes more sense in the sense of the intake. but the motor still works extremely well w/ the intake ports on the side housings and the exhaust on the rotor husings. never mind. i dont even know why i am even bothering arguing the topic.
so what kind of headers are we going to put on the new renesis? can that be explained to me? i woud like to see some thoughts on that since someone has determined that it CAN NOT be turbocharged due to the new exhaust port placement. i see the supercharger coming into effect also.
ps. iam not flaming or yellng or anything, i am just realy curious and trying to hope for the best as we all are.

Flobb

Yeah but you should consider this. How interesting would it be to have a Japanese originated muscle car. GM is giving up on the Camaro and Firebird. So the only muscle left is the Mustang. Which is made by Ford. Who just so happens to own a major portion of Mazda. The only problem with Ford is that they don't improve their own vehicles they only buy companies and make those cars worse. So I highly doubt that it will happen that way. If a two door coupe is ever approved then it will be small and not all that it could be. Let's keep in mind that a two door version of the RX-8 was denied when it was still the Evolv concept. So my prediction is that if one ever exists then it will be a Miata size car with a new body.

technonovice

No...it is more about making it a SUPERCAR.

Flybye

I think mixing platforms with the Miata and the RX-7 will be a BIG mistake. It's almost like mixing the supra with an MR2's platform. Its just a big NO!! The Miata is cute, it handles well, and it's a very comfy little cruiser, but do you REALLY expect people to be hitting speeds of 170+ in a car the size of a Miata? Even if they DO enlarge the Miata to the RX-8 platform, it will kill the repuation the Miata has which is it being a small and fun little car to drive around. A LOT of people like the Miata because of its size. Trying to upgrade it to supercar status will kill the sales of the Miata.

Now lets get back to the RX-7. Just imagine stuffing a 20b with 1000hp in an RX-7 the size of a Miaita. You'll kill yourself If they DO mix platforms, the diehard car guys will be VERY dissappointed. It's bad enough people think an FD looks like a Miata. It will be even worse if it IS a Miata.

Then again, ford is at the helm, so we are fucked no matter what.
Oh why oh WHHHHHHHHHHHY did it have to be ford to take a chunk of Mazda. ANY company other than an american based company would have done us good. It should have been benz. They used to play around with NA 4 rotor concept cars.

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

Ya, Benz did a great job with Chrysler. Losing a lot of money.

Ken
"94 PEP, White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com

RXcetera

Ok, there's no doubt that everyone here likes the RX7 as a "supercar". The problem is, no one bought any significant numbers of RX7s when they became supercars. Dont get me wrong I love the 3rd gen RX7, but the FD is also the reason why RX7s arent sold here anymore. Let's face it, the average joe would much rather spend 50,000 on a Porsche or even a Corvette before he spends it on a RX7... dont beleive me? Then why arent FDs still around? (I'm not talking about Japan here... Japanese people have very different tastes in cars).

As a lover of ALL THINGS rotary, I'm excited that Mazda/Ford is even considering putting the RX7 name on a future ROTARY POWERED car (something that was VERY unlikely a few years ago). And, personally, I cant think of a better idea than to make the next RX7 Miata based. Lets get an RX7 with 250 rotary hp for slightly more than the price of a Miata. Let's make it what it used to be... an affordable sportscar that can outperform many supercars. Sure a new Supercar (super expensive) RX7 would be nice, but didnt the FD already demonstrate that thats not what the general public wants?

I want the next RX7 to be a sucess... I want everyone to buy them, just like they did in the early 80's. Those 1st gens are what made the RX7 "legendary" and a "classic", not the FD. I want to embarrass Porsche drivers all day in my cheap little RX7, just like in the good old days. I want to walk into my Mazda dealer with 30,000$ and buy a little rocket that will keep up with anything out there. THAT'S what RX7s are all about, not expensive, overpowered supercars (allthough those are nice too lol).

Hey, we've got a supercar RX7, it's called the FD and its great. Now, hopefully Mazda can come out with something that will actually be on the market for more than a few years. A car that will make RX7 a household name. And maybe, just maybe a car that will give the rotary the true recognition that it deserves.