7racer

I was surfin and saw these pics...

is this area too weak for a harness bar?

Zyon13B

I don't see why not. Isn't that the place for the seat belts for the back seat?

widebody2

It definitely can't hurt...I doubt its doing a whole lot since there is a brace like 6 inches below it anyway.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

yup...looks like where the belt attachments are for the rear seats. i would think it would be fine... those areas should be reinforced to take some force.

Zyon13B

I think he wants to use it to mount seatbelts on.

widebody2

haha yeah

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

i wouldn't trust that bar to do anytghing in a wreck.IMO.That little twig will snap like a limp noodle! Espeacially with a 5 point on it. Not to mention that is is too high for mounting a harness safely...unless your like 7-8 foot tall. Te harness straps should be no more than 30( not 100% on this # but it is close) degrees below horizontal of the shoulder line. Why not just buy the harness bar that Rotary Extreme makes that replaces the stock strut bar and is a double duty unit. Plus you don't look like you deliver dry cleaning in your FD with that hanger bar in the back

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/harnessbar.html

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

7racer

I actually really like chucks brace but I thought there was some concern about how it mounts in that it uses the stock connection points which are weak. Does anyone have pics of the brace installed without the covers on.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

It uses the stock mounts off the stock bar. It only replaces the center section to allow for a stronger bar for the harness mounting. The M2 bar is a complete replacement.

ZoomZoom

iTrader: (2)

I like the M2 Bar also.

7racer

I would love to get the M2 bar but don't want to deal with possible delivery delays and the fitment issues that damian had...

I still think they made the best roll cage for the FD though.....

maybe chuck could make a harness bar version 2.0

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The only fitment issue I had was reusing the stock bolts. I don't know if mine were the stock bolts or not, but they were only threaded about 1/2 the way down. Since the M2 mounts were so much thicker than the stock mounts, the bolts couldn't go on. I need to buy new bolts that were threaded all the way.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Here's a shot of the M2 mount. You can see how thick it is. I was able to get one stock bolt on and I had to use 2 new ones.

7racer

wow thanks Mahjik....I was confusing their rollbar bar with the harness bar.

DamonB

I would never use the bar in your pics that show that "twig" bolted to the chassis using the rear seat belt anchors. The chassis is plenty strong but that assembly is no use as a place to mount your shoulder harnesses. Ridiculous. If you actually plan for your harness to be anything other than for show I would look elsewhere.

The RE bar has the exact same problem IMO. They take this massive piece of aluminum and then merely bolt it to the stock rear strut bar mounting brackets. Those brackets can never hope to withstand any sort of crash energy; the bar will just rip out. If you actually plan for your harness to be anything other than for show I would look elsewhere.

The M2 harness bar seems to be the best harness bar choice as it is more robust in its mounting and made from steel. Be aware that any real "race" sanctioning body will still most likely insist on a full cage but things like track days aren't going to care.

Another good possibility when legal is to use a Schroth harness with y shoulder straps. The two shoulder straps tie together behind the driver and can be solidly anchored to the left rear strut bolt closest to the middle of the car. This doesn't require any additional harness bar but is only a 3 point belt.

RE bar uses stock strut tower attachments:

macdaddy

FWIW, I've seen plenty of BMW's and Porshe's at their marque club driving schools using harness bars like this - that mount to the OEM 3-pt seatbelt point on the "B" pillar. Most of them did look more substantial than the pic here, though. I understand that other people doing this doesn't make it right, or best - just means you have plenty of company (lemmings, ho!).

If you're only doing Solo II (autocross), where the purpose of the harness is more to keep you in your seat than it is to save your life in a sudden decel, a 4-pt harness and a harness bar (whether mounted to the OEM seat belt bolts or shock tower top) might be worth considering. From a safety standpoint, however, there are 2 concerns. The first is strength - will the harness bar hold up in a sudden decel, and protect you at least as well as the OEM belts? The second has to do with the harness/rollbar combination: you can still roll a car at an autocross (though rare) - the concern about shoulder harnesses without a rollbar is that if your roof caves in, and your torso can't slump to the side, your head gets crunched and neck gets broken - worse than using the OEM belts.

If you're going on track (driving schools, "HPDE"s), I would either go with the stock seat belts or a Solo I-compliant rollbar (with harness bar), and 5- or 6-pt harness. The SCCA GCR (and most harness manufacturers) will give you the specs, including the maximum permissable angles for the shoulder harnesses. Note that SCCA requires each shoulder harness have it's own attachment point - the Y-type belts are not allowed. I don't know anything about drag racing regs - I think some of the sanctioning bodies do allow the Y-type belts for some classes. If your intent is competition, you obviously need to research the regs for the sanctioning body, class, etc., you anticipate competing in. The reason I would go with an SCCA Solo I-compliant set up is that I am comfortable that whatever track, sponsoring organization, etc., I run with, that I will meet their requirements.

Like most threads in this forum, we should go back to the basics of how do you intend to use your car before rendering advice about different mods.

jimlab

Agreed. The M2 looks like the best solution I've seen so far, short of an actual roll bar/cage.

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

Good point I had not heard anything about that. Just remembered seeing it on his page one day. And The RE bar is better than what he has, however i agree that a real roll bar or cage needs to be used if you re doing any "serious" racing/competition.
Personally i am going with a full cage. ( not street driven )

John Magnuson

Well the primary weekness in using the stock rear strut tower brace as a harness bar is the small threaded adjustment screw. The RE bar eliminates this. Will the stock end brackets hold up in a crash? I don't think you could say for sure without some serious engineering or crash testing. The fact of the matter is that using the three little bolts that stick out of the top of the shock tower isn't the best anyway. Like others have said an attachment to a real role bar would be the best solution. But... the RE bar passes tech for my track events (some require a 5 point but not a role cage) and I always use the stock 3 point seatbelt in addition.

jimlab

The weakness of the stock bar is that it's extremely flimsy and so are the mounting brackets. Any strength that it has is in lateral compression, which is how it was designed to work . It was never intended to deal with the longitudinal stress of being a harness mounting point.

They don't. I've seen first hand and seen enough pictures of what happens to that bar in a wreck even without the strain of a harness.

I don't believe that the RE bar solves the problem, although it is better than stock. In the absence of a roll bar, an eye bolt mounted through the floor pan with backing plates is probably the best mounting solution for the shoulder belts.